Opinions On WHM/RDM After Level Cap Increase

You should already be at about 20 feet away, can't hurt to run a few more feet, can it?

Usually more like 15 unless fighting something HNM like. Though sadly lately that still means I'm usually the farther away from the mob than even the whm that doesn't have magic unlocked yet...

I do pretty much anytime hate is icky I'll run. But 90% of the time if hate is icky it probably cause I launched like 50 cure IVs on the tanks and/or spammed stun/dispel.

Really in the grand scheme of things worrying about a single cure IV's hate is kinda silly endgame. And anyways I rarely need to use convert anyways

You got me, I was wrong and you are right.

Ya but if you do that, you lost few tick on the old refresh. I agree, we dont care but since /rdm and /sch will be close, if you want a good comparison, we will need to be accurate, especially if like you said, you want to do "rigorous math", and not approximations.

It's not the best assumptions, it's the asumptions of ppl who whish it will be the same refresh. Nothing more, nothing less. If you look sublimation from main, you have 3 HP / tick, in sub it's only 2 HP. Here you can compare refresh and sublimation. An other assumption is that refresh from /rdm will be 2 mp / tick. But i wont say it's the best one cause i'm not SE, and i dont know.

(without count the fact that refresh is lev 41 so we will have to wait longtime before see it...)


My point was that if you want to do math, do it with the good numbers or dont do it.
I did a reference to BC cause BG is an area where ppl come and make 999999999999999999 theories, with or without information, just to have 1 which is not wrong. It was just a way to say "you dont know, so stop"

And i agree that i didnt give all possibilities to show your math (yours + Dasva's math) was wrong, Dasva add some after me.


I was more to give the stoneskin when you dont need to cure (like when we wait, or before a fight, or when you know something bad will come) cause this stoneskin stay for 5 min, and doesnt wear off even if you zone.


haste gear will only affect recast, not the casting time ;)

I don't know, or I'm wrong, which is it? Either neither of us knows, or I'm wrong because you know, hm?


Yes, but long recast time means more time standing up waiting for the next Haste to be available before you've Hasted everyone and can sit down. There are two parts to the haste cycle, the casting and the waiting on recast timer. Haste gear reduces one of those which shortens the whole thing.

"Refresh will always beat Sublimation in terms of MP gain"

"Convert will gain you more MP over time than all the best MP savings of Penury and Ascension"

"the math shows that /RDM wins in terms of MP gain for the situations shown".

You are not giving your opinion here, you said "its like this and i prove it". I say you cant do math at the moment, so you cant affirm that one sub is better that an other. That all.
And if you want to do math, count all situations (like dark art + aspir which can add 120 (average) mp ever minute, without cost you a Stratagem if we stay in term of MP gain), and use good numbers, then i wont be shocked when you say things like if it was the truth.

Look Dasva, he considered several hypotheses to say in this situation X win, in this one its Y. At no time he said one sub was better that an other...

i see use's for both Sub jobs on whm, /sch can sometimes be limiting due to the whole needing Stratagems to use certain Black magic, its very situational which is why i am having both at 49 for subs, refreshing other members and being able to throw off more than just repose as a sleep, or quick dispels ect can be more handy in some situations.
If you are a main whm ussaly and do care alot about it i do suggest having both and picking which for the right situation.Its all good which can save more mp than another but must think which may be mroe practical for situations as well and both serve many great situations.