Dual Wield Weaponskill

Friend trying to tell me that the extra hit added from Dual Wield in weapon skills is based off of sub weapon damage, not mainhand. He refers me to wiki (which I lol'd at, because A: Wiki B: It says its mainhand). Just point blank, is he right? Never really bothered to waste time testing it, my swords have the same base damage :D

Who gives a ***? Even if the DMG of offhand effects the extra hit it won't make up for using a higher dmg sword in place of say a multihit sub sword for dps/tp gain.

During physical-damage Weapon Skills, an extra hit is performed with the secondary weapon. This does not apply to elemental Weapon Skills (such as Shining Strike) or special Weapon Skills such as Spirits Within. From wiki...
he is right :O

Well the problem with wiki is anyone can change it to anything not saying this is false or not just wiki isn't reliable. Also if you really want to know all you have to do is first take all occ. atk. x gear off. Then equip two katanas and do a few ws and record your tp returns. Once that is done equip a wep you have no skill in onto your sub wep slot and do the same ws a few more times. If you notice your tp return after ws is missing 1 tp alot then the extra hit is based off of your off hand wep. If the tp return stays the same it is based off of main hand.

And anyone can change a new edit to show the correct info. If one person believes something but 100 others have supporting evidence to prove it wrong, it won't be up on the wiki for long.

Personally I would take the advice of a group of thousands over just a single person writing whatever they want on their site.

He never mentioned accuracy, he asked about the damage.

Yes it's true he asked about dmg but by testing to see if the extra hit is missing with a low acc wep wouldn't you also be proving that it is in fact that wep being used in the extra hit and it's dmg?

Current understanding is, the extra swing does happen and it is based on the main hand weapon damage.

If he things otherwise then he will have to prove it.

Either way this really shouldn't effect any decision in what to offhand.

That one offhand hit should only be a small portion of your ws dmg to begin with and small differences in dmg on said weapon will have even smaller effect.

Compared to tping faster, harder, and/or more accurately it's not really a decision that needs to be made unless for some reason you aren't tping.

But I can't think of too many times someone would be Dual weilding and not tping and still wsing much

Who gives a ***...but seriously not saying wiki is 100% but its the best we have...or is there a more reliable source other than wiki that I don't know about?

I'd take it with a grain of salt and read the discussion. Usually if something is wrong on the main page for it somehwere in the discussion there are several people going wtf that is bogus.

Though not always. I mean it still says conserve mp counts when in precast and unless I have really horrible luck (couple hundred cast in 10% conserve mp and nothing) then it definitely doesn't. Yet when I ended casting with it on I acheieve 10% activation rate in even small samples

Out of boredom and some other reasons I actually tested this a few weeks back. The damage from the Dual Wield hit seems to most definitely be calculated based on the offhand weapon, despite some people saying otherwise. I only did a few tests, but I'm satisfied.

Test #1
Job: 55RDM/27NIN
Targets: West Ronfaure Wild Rabbits
cRatio: Capped @ 2.00
Main: Bronze Dagger (DMG:3 + fSTR:8 = Base:11)
Sub: Bronze Dagger (DMG:3 + fSTR:8 = Base:11)
Weapon Skill: Wasp Sting (no WSC modifiers or fTP bonus)
Projected Damage: 34 - 56
Actual Damage: 38, 43 (a whopping two tests)

Test #2
Main: Bronze Dagger (DMG:3 + fSTR:8 = Base:11)
Sub: Auriga Xiphos (DMG:17 + fSTR:9 = Base:26)
Projected Damage: 58 - 94 (assuming each hit is calculated per weapon)
Actual Damage: 81, 86 (again another whopping two tests)

Both times with the subbed Xiphos I doubled my damage. More tests would be necessary to have a sample size of more than 2 tests each, lol, but I have faith in the math of capped pDIF (with or without the 1.05 randomizer), and each test fell nicely into the projected values, so I'm satisfied unless proven otherwise.

As most people know, the Damage Type modifier (Blunt, Piercing, Slashing) is the same for all hits, and based on the standard damage type of the Mainhand Weapon (no exceptions for stuff like Degens or anything). I tested out how Jump works too, and in that case Damage Type IS calculated for each swing (as well as calculating the damage separately as illustrated with the WS hits), and exceptions like Degen will switch the type for that hand.

Based on all these separate calculations taking place as far as damage goes, I'd also assume that Accuracy and Attack are calculated separately for the offhand weapon as well, but I'm not about to actually test it. =p If you're getting the full damage from an offhand weapon, I really doubt SE's going to let you have that for free is your Skill with that weapon is 0.

Everyone knows the extra hit is added. If you look below it it says the damage is based off of offhand, that's what I'm asking for >.<

Edit:

No, Dual-wield adds an extra hit to phys ws, thats fact. The only thing I was unclear about (and still am, hence the bump) is if it's based off of MAIN or OFFhand weapon's damage rating, because I dont take wiki for fact.

The additional hit provided by Dual Wield, that otherwise would not occur (because there would then be nothing in the off hand), actually comes from the main hand. Really?

Incredulity about thinking that runs counter to "common sense" is not an argument, though, but it is easy to check this (as shown in this thread previously) and it's so obvious that the extra hit comes from the off hand (combine a 1-DMG weapon with a high-damage weapon to make it easier) that I wonder how anyone can claim to check this and come to the opposite conclusion.

Are you two even arguing about the same thing? The OP appears to be talking about dmg rating (ie. D1 vs D36) while Night's talking dmg types (blunt/slashing/etc...)

My understanding along with my explanation is that your off hand weapon is never factored into weaponskill damage. The reason I think this is because youre unable to use your off hand's weapinskills. You receive the extra hit from dual wield but its just calculated with your main hands damage rating

There honestly is no reason to expect the persistence of damage type for weapon skills implies that the extra hit comes from the main hand.

There's a test about 2 posts above your first one that is very brief but still seems pretty obvious that offhand dmg is calculated using the actual offhand dmg rating and not just the mainhand.

Dmg types are just weird because they're totally linked to the WS itself, not even to the mainhand dmg type (joy/birdbanes/etc...)

How the hell did I miss that post... Disregard, ***, etc. And FUUUUUUUUUUUU because that does a nasty number on my swords model >_<

Apologies for the misinformation.

So seriously, did only one other person actually read my post? The math doesn't lie, and the variability with how pDIF is calculated wouldn't add up to a difference of 50 points of damage. As I showed and Antisense reinforced, the testing is obvious. Low damage weapon in mainhand, high damage weapon in offhand (I could have used a much higher weapon than I did, but was lazy and just grabbed whatever I had in storage), and perform a 1-hit WS with no WSC or fTP modifiers, hence Wasp Sting. The damage I got back was only possible if the Auriga Xiphos damage properties were being used in the equation.

And, also as I said (and tested quite a bit as well), the entire WS is only one damage type, based on the standard Weapon Skill Damage Type. All Sword WSs will be Slashing, even though there are special exceptions like Degens that do Piercing TP damage. All Daggers will be Piercing. Etc.

Jump acts differently where it can be affected by special exceptions and the damage type of each hand is calculated separately, since Jump isn't specifically tied to any weapon in particular in the first place (at least I assume that's the reason why).

EDIT: =p

Not to belabor the point, but I figured I would just check this myself since it's not too bad:

A certain mob whose name starts with "Zvahl":

I think I have fSTR = 0 (STR = 74) but still have high attack somehow (get 2 damage frequently)

Wasp Sting damage

Trainee's Needle/Koggelmander: 68 (full TP return)
Trainee's Needle/Trainee Burin: 2 (full TP return)