New Instruments Next Update? Or, Upgrades?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/41050

New instruments? Or, will Dura. and G'horn. be upgraded to iLvl 119 or something similar?

That would be ideal but no, they're adding new instruments shields etc. as an "alternative" to Dura, Ochain. Aegis.

Handbell is an instrument also...

Ah, for those that can't or don't want to get a G'Horn/Dura, that makes sense then. I guess a lot like that shield from Skirmish. It's about time they added an alternative. This would have been great to have a couple of years ago. Then again, I'm almost done with G'Horn, and still trying to get more Souls for Harp.

My sword is an instrument... of death.

Camate
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Greetings,

As we’ve mentioned before, the development team would like to add new shields and instruments so that both paladin and bard can have an easier time playing without being too focused on obtaining relics and empyreans. I'd like to share the development team's thoughts at the moment and what is planned for the future.

Shields
Currently, shield blocks and the amount of damage reduced are affected by the following:

Damage reduced: type of shield and shield defense
Block rate: type of shield, player shield skill, combat skill attributed to each monster

Comparing Ochain and the easier to obtain Beatific Shield +1, damage reduction from the Beatific Shield is approximately 50%, while Ochain is around 60%, and the block rate, though it depends on the enemy, is very close between the two. On the other hand, the Killedar Shield’s damage reduction nearly reaches 70%, but the block rate is lower. While Ochain is still more powerful than both of these shields, we've managed to close the large gap that existed in the past.

We plan on adding new item level 119 shields moving forward to close this gap even more.

Instruments
In the April version update we will be introducing a new instrument that grants an additional song. As this effect is extremely powerful, it won't be so easy to obtain; however, we'd like this to be another option in addition to Daurdabla.

Allow us to unlock relic ws and we reach an good term for all relic staving jobs (coronach, im looking at you).

Not bashing anyone intentionally or se's intention of making stuff stupidly easy but..... If you are to lazy to build a Ghorn and Daurdabla you probably shouldnt be playing bard for events...

Time for more bull crap over again balls to all emp/ relic brd's and pld's sigh

99 Ochain owner, zero ***. Building a 90 harp or shield isn't difficult. If you want to distinguish yourself, take it to 99

Well, if you're a BRD. If you're a PLD and you 99 your shield, you're silly

I'm not at all starting bulcrap as you say, but you are truely limiting yourself as a bard to just three songs is all im saying, and limiting yourself to inventory space by not making a horn, do you have any idea how may spots you would fill with insturments with out ghorn for a full 18 man run with all the buffs you would be using? I hope buffing is all you would be planning on doing cause you would never be able to have (macc,cure cast/cure pot, song duration, and a song effect set) with out it I mean you can barely do it now w/ ghorn.

I don't think it's due to laziness, but more of an issue with time.

I can get around two to three stacks of currency farming Dynamis for nearly two hours each day, and as a result I'm nearly done with G'Horn. However, I'm not farming seven days a week; I'm farming when I'm feeling well enough and wide awake enough to not be AFK in game to go to Dynamis. But, I am usually doing it late in the evening (PST) so I have to rest afterwards. I am sidestepped by side effects from my chemo medication that more often than not makes me too tired to even play for longer than two or three hours, unless I force myself to do it. Others may not have my medical condition, but I know others that work quite a lot during the week and have most of their free time on the weekends or very late at night. Usually they cannot stay on longer than one to three hours depending on how late it is for them.

I or anyone else should not be forced to get a R/E/M just to satisfy a small number of players. It doesn't make them a bad player for not having it. They may not deal the same amount of damage or be as effective in many situations, but they're not lazy or unmotivated players.

As for Daurdabla, this is more of luck and patience. On my server, the best times to farm it is usually late night or very early in the morning because it's difficult to farm against two to three other people trying to complete the same trials. (And, not many want to deal with Diabolos in Grauberg (A).) I'd rather be sleeping after 12 midnight than farming for Souls even if it's the best time to farm them. At my current rate of farming, I'd be surprised to get all 75 Souls before my birthday in October. I'd be lucky to see it at level 90 before Christmas 2014. An LS mate of mine doesn't see himself getting an Ochain after Aegis is done due to lack of time and patience to farm them when he has very little time himself in game.

Again, a lot of us don't have a lot of time or patience to farm them and those I sympathize and empathize with. I'm sidetracked by side effects with chemo medication while others have work and/or kids to deal with. I know people who only are free Friday and Saturday for two to three hours or less. I know one in one of my Linkshells that can only stay one hour online during the weekdays before having to go to bed to start work the next day.

It's not laziness and it's not that these people aren't willing to get them, it's just that time is a commodity-- an expensive one.

You either spend it in-game to hope your gear is up-to-date and not behind other better equipped players or you spend it on your real life. And, to tell you the truth, real life matters more than the game itself.

Any alternative to help those that don't have the time to get Relics/Mythics is fine in my book. It'll be a good halfway point between the normal instruments and the Relic Horn/Empyrean Harp, but won't be a replacement. The same goes with the Beatific Shield. I, myself, do not see myself having the time to do Ochain after Harp is done given how much time it takes to make one and the rarity of the drops for the Souls themselves.

I agree that you're limiting yourself, and I think the very limitations that you're mentioning are an appropriate penance for not having taken the dive to create 99 instruments. Sometimes groups have to make due without their career bards around, Naer! '-'

Yes I understand, but as I said in my first post im not insulting or poking at anyone just saying you are limiting yourself. I'm sorry if I sounded insulting or however you may have took it, after reading your post I thought about what I said, and kap is correct you can only do what you yourself have the paitents/time to do.

Does job-specific equipment imply that these new items will be another line of Relic/Empyrean/Mythic type equipment? Has there been job-specific WEAPONS/SHIELDS/INSTRUMENTS introduced in the past that were not a long-chain quest like REM (are we introducing a new letter to the REM acronym?)?

I would bet its a reforged version of the artifact weapon.
At this point of game, another similar to REM would contradict SE philosopy in turning the game less grinding. I bet would be the same dificult as reforging af1/af2. Also, remenber that, in theory, we have one extra delve material (5 slots of gear and 6 delves). So it will work to reforge something.

No problem, I didn't take offense to it. Even I know how limiting two songs are nowadays compared to 3 or 4 songs.

These would be a nice stopgap before a Relic Horn/Empy. Harp. Even I would use it even if it meant that it's limited to three songs total, and use it until I can finish Harp to at least level 90. I'd probably have G'horn to 90 or 95 before Harp is done anyway.

If you get an instrument that gives an additional song, there'd be no reason to bother with Daurdabla at all unless you wanted (and had the means) to take it to 99.

I really hated reading this the first time I read about it a month ago. But comparing it to everything else that's been going on in Adoulin, I've changed my mind. The 119 weapons you can get are only just slightly behind R/E/M weapons for most DD jobs. Some weapons are even ahead.
There is nothing like this for bards. You can have all the good instruments outside R/E and know how to sing your songs perfectly and keep your songs up on everyone perfectly. You are still going to be severely limited in your role compared to any bard with daurdabla/ghorn.

I think of it like this: if you have a group of 6 players and none of them have R/E/M weapons, then the biggest single item upgrade to your group would be getting your bard an additional song.

An easier obtained 3 song harp is going to be a god-send for low population servers, where you can be shouting for a very long time to find that elusive 3 song bard.

Not sure what kind of stats they're gonna put on this new instrument apart from granting an additional song. But it isn't really bridging that big of a gap if it is just a gimp version of darub 90 because daurb 90 isn't hard to make.

Imo ghorn 99 is still going to be superior by miles and very hard to invite these gimp bards with new instruments unless they put a all songs +3 on that instrument. In low man activities, that ballad+5/scherzo+5 etc is priceless and possibly more valuable than the extra song.

So the only way to bridge the gap is to put additional song effect and all songs +3 on that new instrument(or something like that).

I think it's a good thing they're doing that, but gimp bards who still dont' have 3 songs by now are probably gimp in many other ways that you don't really want to take them in anyway. They usually levelled it to leech a tojil win ( i.e. no relic horn/+3 instruments, not geared properly for buffs/cure support, not enough +macc for even putting an elegy on tojil)

The mentality of gimp bards are quite a bit different to dds who don't own a REM(which may not even be gimp). They like to sing -> afk.

Could be... But no... Simple PLD and BRD don't have shield/instrument as af weapons...
Of going to reforge a sword into a shield and a dagger into an harp? Lol

Dude, you really need to do a lil research on song effects.

If you mean getting ghorn overwriting the extra song, then i know >_> What i'm trying to say is you can't have +5 ballads or +5 scherzos unless you have ghorn 99. In a cure heavy fight, this can make or break your game.

My point is, compare to a 99relic no 3 song, and a daurb90 no relic (and possibly singing everything on daurb90 because they're HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE). The former is sometimes (quite often actually, esp in low man situations) a better choice because of the +4/+5 song effects. Granted a clever bard can keep their clarion song up forever provided you're not killing anything that can dispel.

and the amount of gimp bards singing ballads with their +1 ballad harp and not understanding their range and hitting melees with ballads ... <O>

This ignorant thought process on why people don't have R/E/M is really starting to ride the edge of retard. People keep saying this in every job forum. "R/E/M or you suck"

This seems to be a mentality among several idiots here on these forums:
"Don't have the job for an event? You're lazy because it's too easy to level jobs now"
"Don't have R/E/M? You're lazy because they are too easy to get now"

What a bunch of *** hypocrites. OK I get it. You have R/E/M for a few jobs you play, so you think everyone who plays the jobs you play should have R/E/M for those jobs as well if they are posting in a forum.

I'm not being hypocritical. But I believe it's fair to say that pretty much 1 year after SoA release, which is where bard pretty much made the come back and shines again, if you don't have daurb 90 (which isn't hard to obtain at all with ilvl gear), you are not in any way serious about playing that job. I am pointing out that the possible mindset people have when they are STILL a 2 song bard. (and with a fair experience of PUGGing with these said people, I believe it is pretty true)

For this past year, there is no replacement for ghorn/daurb. We all know there's a difference in levelling something to 99 and gearing it being ready for 119+ content. If your bard don't have daub90/selection of +3 instruments, you clearly have no intention to play that job. Leeching wins is not playing the job.

Which means I have a reasonal doubt to speculate, that this person doesn't have the macc gear, the support gear, or even given the job the slightest thought on how to play it. Oh btw, there is a lot more to a bard's job than singing then afk - we /whm for a reason.

It has taken you this long to finally notice this?

Each in his own time, I guess.

The new harp is just the song +1 effect, at least the screenshot of this dont show anything, at least numerical, aside that, but thats good. Any extra stuff is actually not a good thing, like daurdabla effect increase songs duration, that makes harder to non ghorn users (like me, yet) to replace dummy for quality songs, even more for songs that dont have high enhancement instruments like ballad.

There is no "gimp brd mantality". There is, though, bad and good players mentality. Good players will be good no matter what job, because they will level all jobs, will read all forums, guides, and are normally more used to games mechnics, so even if at some point they 2 songs, they will do the job well. Bad player are those who dont research anything, gear with anything, just to gear their horrible blu and to pretend "they are 'good' in that job, when in fact, most likely they will be behind even if the brd decide to go dd.

Thats all to say, 2 songs is diferent of gimp. And if a person cant get his job done with 2 songs, most likely that one shouldnt be too much higher than 'gimp'.

If you haven't paid the effort to get a 3 song instrument, would you have taken the money/effort to reforge your bard AF/AF2/mezzotint new delve gear/farm marduk legs+1 etc to increase your buff durations and get enough macc to even land sleep/elegy/etc reliably in delve2?

I think not. daurb 90 is not even money (unless you buy souls/horns/plates), it's just effort. It's the same deal as other classes, MNKs with oats/delve2 h2h aren't really going to be parsing well unless they paid the effort to upgrade the rest of their body. I'm not bashing the new instrument, I'm saying bards need to realise that there's a lot more to bard than +1 song effect, and if you don't have ghorn you're still going to be subpar for various reasons. And possibly ghorn is more important than that extra song and without the +3song effect in that new instrument, it's still difficult.



Actually you can easily bypass that without a ghorn by just singing with less song extension gear. Also a lullaby +3/4 would be really nice on a harp... :P