Liberator 119 Worth It?

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Dark Knight » Liberator 119 worth it?
Liberator 119 worth it?
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2014-05-23 13:33:32  
At this stage of the game, I have no overall goal to aim for. All I am doing is working on the reforged armour, which I have most of now for my three main jobs, so I have been contemplating saving money on a mythic.

I have Ragnarok 119, and no Apocalypse. I really enjoy my Ragnarok, and I like to think I do alright with it, but I have and always will be a lover of a scythe-wielding dark knight. From the early days I have always wanted to use scythe, but Resolution came out, and since then I switched over to the Great Sword so I could keep DPS up.

One problem with this decision is the severe lack of information regarding the weapon from first hand experience. Does anyone know whether a Liberator would damage deal better then a Ragnarok?

Also I am skeptical, because I use Resolution, Last Stand and Exenterator on a regular basis, and as we are only allowed 3 Merit WS, I would not be able to merit Entropy fully.

Then there's the issue of new content. Every month we get new pieces of equipment that slowly close the gap between regular weapons and R/M/E.

I did that with my Ragnarok, I got it up to 95 only for it to be outdated by Bereaver and Senbaak. I couldn't use my Ragnarok for many many months until they updated R/M/E to 119.

It would be a long term plan for me, but I don't want to set out on this journey if the weapon isn't all that great in comparison to Ragnarok, especially when I could spend my money on an Apocalypse instead for the utility, or even a Mandau for my THF.

Thanks to anyone who can provide real feedback.
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By Fasaga 2014-05-23 13:36:25  
With liberator you don't use entropy, you just fulltime insurgency. With the upcoming changes in weaponskills, it may even get a further boost. When you have AM3 up, Liberator shits on ragnarok. The white damage is insane and the WS frequency is crazy.
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By Fafnir 2014-05-23 13:55:21  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
At this stage of the game, I have no overall goal to aim for. All I am doing is working on the reforged armour, which I have most of now for my three main jobs, so I have been contemplating saving money on a mythic.

I have Ragnarok 119, and no Apocalypse. I really enjoy my Ragnarok, and I like to think I do alright with it, but I have and always will be a lover of a scythe-wielding dark knight. From the early days I have always wanted to use scythe, but Resolution came out, and since then I switched over to the Great Sword so I could keep DPS up.

One problem with this decision is the severe lack of information regarding the weapon from first hand experience. Does anyone know whether a Liberator would damage deal better then a Ragnarok?

Also I am skeptical, because I use Resolution, Last Stand and Exenterator on a regular basis, and as we are only allowed 3 Merit WS, I would not be able to merit Entropy fully.

Then there's the issue of new content. Every month we get new pieces of equipment that slowly close the gap between regular weapons and R/M/E.

I did that with my Ragnarok, I got it up to 95 only for it to be outdated by Bereaver and Senbaak. I couldn't use my Ragnarok for many many months until they updated R/M/E to 119.

It would be a long term plan for me, but I don't want to set out on this journey if the weapon isn't all that great in comparison to Ragnarok, especially when I could spend my money on an Apocalypse instead for the utility, or even a Mandau for my THF.

Thanks to anyone who can provide real feedback.


Liberator is approximately a 5-20% improvement over a Ragnarok depending on the situation.

Fasaga is right in that you will never be using Entropy (May change depending on future Ilvl gear), so it won't make your gear choices much different from Resolution.

The absorb augment is beneficial in most zerg situations. With the appropriate gear, the duration effect can be extended up to 140s, which affects your overall absorb gain. Though I haven't seen information confirming the negative effect on the monster decays at the same rate as the positive effect, if they are the same, Absorb-VIT is essentially the equivalent of giving your melees an average STR boost of +54 over a duration of 140s (assuming Nethervoid and gear).
 Bismarck.Hsieh
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By Bismarck.Hsieh 2014-05-23 13:59:07  
You would only need 1 merit in Entropy and scythe wielders use it to get MP back.

I also haven't seen any scythes that have come close to Apocalypse nor Liberator in terms of utility. If you are worried about content changing every month, then what you need to ask yourself is" "Would I be able to finish a mythic in a timely fashion or in the near future?" or is building a mythic worth the investment?

What Fasaga said pretty sums up liberator. I would wait next month what the changes are in the weaponskills. In he meantime, you could finish up some or start the quests for a mythic and not turn in the alex for now.
 Odin.Exeter
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By Odin.Exeter 2014-05-23 14:12:25  
Having Apoc 119, I would say if you are after utility it's the way to go, the base damage on the 119 is incredible, it won't spike ws dmg as high as Reso with Catastrophe but it is always nice to troll your WHM and make them cure for 0 xD.

As Fafnir said, it really depends on the situation, with Apoc you can get away with soul eater more safely then you could with Ragnarok or Liberator and not have to worry about your ws dropping your hp to 50% from full. I know my opinion is slightly biased because I have Apoc 119 already but what you should really do is what you think is best not what other people say everyone's experiences are different and you shouldn't make a final decision based on anyone's single Atypical experiences.
 Bahamut.Mrscoot
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By Bahamut.Mrscoot 2014-05-23 14:13:59  
Fasaga said: »
With liberator you don't use entropy, you just fulltime insurgency. With the upcoming changes in weaponskills, it may even get a further boost. When you have AM3 up, Liberator shits on ragnarok. The white damage is insane and the WS frequency is crazy.


Is there a link for the weaponskill changes?
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By Scruffyballs 2014-05-23 14:16:00  
Its not really shitting on Ragnarok.

As for weapon skill changes, I wouldn't make something based on future plans to update stuff. Buffs could be something simple like a 10% boost all over or something crazy like making Scourge a 5hit Crit WS.

If you like to low man stuff you might be really happy with Apoc.
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By Scruffyballs 2014-05-23 14:17:07  
Bahamut.Mrscoot said: »
Fasaga said: »
With liberator you don't use entropy, you just fulltime insurgency. With the upcoming changes in weaponskills, it may even get a further boost. When you have AM3 up, Liberator shits on ragnarok. The white damage is insane and the WS frequency is crazy.


Is there a link for the weaponskill changes?
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/41834-Future-Weapon-Skill-Adjustments?p=506921#post506921
Believe that's all that was said on the matter.
 Bahamut.Mrscoot
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By Bahamut.Mrscoot 2014-05-23 14:33:44  
nice, thanks for the link!
 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-05-23 14:33:50  
Scruffyballs said: »
Bahamut.Mrscoot said: »
Fasaga said: »
With liberator you don't use entropy, you just fulltime insurgency. With the upcoming changes in weaponskills, it may even get a further boost. When you have AM3 up, Liberator shits on ragnarok. The white damage is insane and the WS frequency is crazy.


Is there a link for the weaponskill changes?
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/41834-Future-Weapon-Skill-Adjustments?p=506921#post506921
Believe that's all that was said on the matter.


They also said something about 3000 TP instead of 300, and certain job TP gain being affected.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2014-05-23 17:05:37  
Thanks for the replies. Whenever I see players talk about the most powerful and job changing mythics, Liberator isn't brought into the conversation as much, but I never hear anyone bringing their 119 Liberator to an event. Does anyone know how it would fair in delve areas for example?

I suppose it also depends on how Insurgency and Resolution square up, and what happens with the upcoming WS update that I didn't know about.

The one thing I really like about Liberator is that it encourages you to absorb. I always absorb when I can, and have a dark magic set with 506 skill. I can't get it much higher than that at the moment, and it's really good for Endark, Drain II and Absorb-VIT. There are times in higher tier battlefields that I prefer to use Absorb-Agi to help any DD that might be missing.

Of course, as soon as it is time to zerg, I will only cast Endark when it's needed, otherwise it's Reso spam all the way, and I wonder how Liberator vs Rag would be like in highly buffed situations.
 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2014-05-23 17:33:22  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Thanks for the replies. Whenever I see players talk about the most powerful and job changing mythics, Liberator isn't brought into the conversation as much, but I never hear anyone bringing their 119 Liberator to an event. Does anyone know how it would fair in delve areas for example?

I can PM you parse result if you want. I only have tojil parse though.
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 Lakshmi.Konvict
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By Lakshmi.Konvict 2014-05-23 17:52:02  
Liberator rapes and I just full time Insurgency
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2014-05-23 17:58:48  
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Thanks for the replies. Whenever I see players talk about the most powerful and job changing mythics, Liberator isn't brought into the conversation as much, but I never hear anyone bringing their 119 Liberator to an event. Does anyone know how it would fair in delve areas for example?

I can PM you parse result if you want. I only have tojil parse though.

I would appreciate that.

Lakshmi.Konvict said: »
Liberator rapes and I just full time Insurgency

Nice.
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By Fafnir 2014-05-23 18:24:13  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Thanks for the replies. Whenever I see players talk about the most powerful and job changing mythics, Liberator isn't brought into the conversation as much, but I never hear anyone bringing their 119 Liberator to an event. Does anyone know how it would fair in delve areas for example?

I suppose it also depends on how Insurgency and Resolution square up, and what happens with the upcoming WS update that I didn't know about.

The one thing I really like about Liberator is that it encourages you to absorb. I always absorb when I can, and have a dark magic set with 506 skill. I can't get it much higher than that at the moment, and it's really good for Endark, Drain II and Absorb-VIT. There are times in higher tier battlefields that I prefer to use Absorb-Agi to help any DD that might be missing.

Of course, as soon as it is time to zerg, I will only cast Endark when it's needed, otherwise it's Reso spam all the way, and I wonder how Liberator vs Rag would be like in highly buffed situations.

Insurgency is inferior to Resolution, but the mythic ws boost on Liberator closes the gap (And the upcoming changes shouldn't be boosting the merit-WSes, so we can expect this gap to close even more), the AM3 bonus makes it superior.

I did want to point out that an average gain of +54 STR for 3.25 minutes (or -54 VIT on the mob) is nothing to scoff at. It's about a 6~7% increase in DPS.

As for highly buffed sitations, using the gear in my posted sets, the gains are roughly 15.6% increase in DPS for high acc conditions (Highly evasive or delve II MBs), 3.9% increase for mid acc conditions (VD BC zergs or Delve II NM1-5s), and 11.7% increase for dated/fodder content (ADL/Odin zerg, etc).

None of this is accounting for absorbs, just highly buffed situations against Ragnarok, both with ideal gear sets for the respective TP/WS phases, and assuming you can keep up AM3.
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 Phoenix.Urteil
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By Phoenix.Urteil 2014-06-01 01:25:35  
Meh.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2014-06-01 05:49:38  
Phoenix.Urteil said: »
Meh.

Meh?
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2014-06-01 06:25:27  
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Phoenix.Urteil said: »
Meh.

Meh?


I'd guess he means it's nothing hyper amazing. Not like Apoc before Haste was easy to cap, or not like Ragnarok when Resolution was released.

I haven't played FFXI for a while, but I was actually looking into Liberator for a while because I was kind of an outcast DRK who liked to stun/debuff more than top the DPS chart. It felt more role appropriate since WAR and SAM were leagues better on raw DPS. You'd be surprised just how many times I managed to save tanks or alliances just from a well-timed stun.

At that point Liberator would have fulfilled the role I wanted, but by the sound of the 119 version it's only better. 7% DPS increase isn't negligable on its own from the VIT absorb, but on a boss-class monster with a party-alliance, the assist damage you add is pretty, all by casting a single spell.


I don't think anyone will argue that Ragnarok is the better DPS weapon, even though on paper Liberator could come out ahead. But that's with optimal AM3 perpetuation. Ragnarok is off-the-shelf amazing.


If you're super dedicated to DRK, I don't see why it wouldn't be another worthwhile goal. Plus, Liberator isn't just a shitty Death Scythe or Braveheart painted gold.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2014-06-01 07:07:50  
Odin.Zicdeh said: »
Cerberus.Kylos said: »
Phoenix.Urteil said: »
Meh.

Meh?


I'd guess he means it's nothing hyper amazing. Not like Apoc before Haste was easy to cap, or not like Ragnarok when Resolution was released.

I haven't played FFXI for a while, but I was actually looking into Liberator for a while because I was kind of an outcast DRK who liked to stun/debuff more than top the DPS chart. It felt more role appropriate since WAR and SAM were leagues better on raw DPS. You'd be surprised just how many times I managed to save tanks or alliances just from a well-timed stun.

At that point Liberator would have fulfilled the role I wanted, but by the sound of the 119 version it's only better. 7% DPS increase isn't negligable on its own from the VIT absorb, but on a boss-class monster with a party-alliance, the assist damage you add is pretty, all by casting a single spell.


I don't think anyone will argue that Ragnarok is the better DPS weapon, even though on paper Liberator could come out ahead. But that's with optimal AM3 perpetuation. Ragnarok is off-the-shelf amazing.


If you're super dedicated to DRK, I don't see why it wouldn't be another worthwhile goal. Plus, Liberator isn't just a shitty Death Scythe or Braveheart painted gold.

I like this comment, and it makes me pray that they make Insurgency awesome on the next update so I have a reason to be one of those outcast DRKs. I love my Rag, I love seeing where I end up in a parse, but naturally I have always been like you, a DRK who likes to use dark magic.
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By Fenrir.Jinjo 2014-06-01 07:09:54  
I'm not sure Liberator is interested in unsolicited sexual activity but it certainly is DRK's most capable damage dealing weapon if people actually let you go DRK to stuff.
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2014-06-01 07:11:14  
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
I'm not sure Liberator is interested in unsolicited sexual activity but it certainly is DRK's most capable damage dealing weapon if people actually let you go DRK to stuff.

They do because they know I don't suck it up and actually use -dt sets, so I would assume they would take me to most things, unless they are the kind of person who goes RNG onry. :(
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By Phoenix.Urteil 2014-06-01 08:01:46  
It is no Yagrush. Nor is it a Dharp.

No offense to Zicdeh but you have me gravely mistaken, for we are kindred spirits! I have long been that "outcast" DRK trying to squeeze a use for magic into many situations. Zeid saw me stunning TP moves thought it was a good idea and now he does it too!


It is a potent damage dealing tool and AM3 + Soul Enslavement is very satisfying. It also helps maximize the window for Souleater when AM3 is up.


The spells it augments aren't as powerful as I would like and in PvE events I find myself wishing the +35Macc was +accuracy. It is by far the worst weapon for PvP. A sword and steadfast shield easily surpassing it in utility and application. Apocalypse laughs at it and Ragnarok is ready to take away your opponent's breath with speed.




If you're looking for a scythe that greatly augments our magical side Anahera is a better bet. . .


But . . . if you want a triple attack stick look no further. With proper sets and a bit of foresight in battle in regards to TP use you will be a great boon to your alliance.

But your magical desires will go unfulfilled. . .

But a true Dark Knight won't let that stop them. Who knows what the future holds? A quick adjust here, and some +magic damage there. . .

I would make one again, and again, and again.
As the future still holds promise as I thought it did back then. When that day comes I will be laughing on top of a mountain.
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 Fenrir.Jinjo
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By Fenrir.Jinjo 2014-06-01 08:10:39  
To be completely frank, if you are prominently playing the game with friends (or linkshell mates I guess), and you're into the job and able to participate in events, the only mythic that you would really want to reconsider is Gastraphetes (and perhaps Vajra, I honestly haven't done calculations for jobs in quite a while). Everything else has an application. Most of them are the highest capable DPS weapon as well.

You could certainly argue for the usability of other mythics, but at this point in the game just I'd be baffled if someone didn't pick things for the job they actually enjoy.
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 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2014-06-01 08:11:04  
The comment about Zeid made my day. :) Thanks for the insights into Liberator, let's hope it ends up being our best weapon so I have something to do.
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2014-06-01 08:13:04  
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
To be completely frank, if you are prominently playing the game with friends (or linkshell mates I guess), and you're into the job and able to participate in events, the only mythic that you would really want to reconsider is Gastraphetes (and perhaps Vajra, I honestly haven't done calculations for jobs in quite a while). Everything else has an application. Most of them are the highest capable DPS weapon as well.

You could certainly argue for the usability of other mythics, but at this point in the game just I'd be baffled if someone didn't pick things for the job they actually enjoy.

Hey, don't get me wrong, if I had the time and patience to 119 my Redemption I would! Quietus is the WS officially endorsed by Batman, I love it, but yeah .. other priorities :)
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 Phoenix.Urteil
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By Phoenix.Urteil 2014-06-01 08:13:17  
Dark Knight has no best.
There are just different situations.
The best Dark Knight is prepared.



And don't neglect Requiescat.
*** Don't.





***On quietus.

I made a 90 Redemption hoping to use Quietus during Liberator AM3. I was very underwhelmed. However this could change.
 Cerberus.Kylos
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2014-06-01 08:14:46  
Phoenix.Urteil said: »
Dark Knight has no best.
There are just different situations.
The best Dark Knight is prepared.



And don't neglect Requiescat.
*** Don't.

If only SE would let us have more merit WS at 5/5 ... no choice but to neglect.
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By Phoenix.Urteil 2014-06-01 08:16:10  
The WS on us is pretty good. Breaks damage cap in PvP and you can DD/breakshields/bypass phases on monsters in delve that otherwise waste time etc.

Our high attack makes the WS powerful, our gear has good STR/MND on it.

Butttttt back on topic.
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By Cerberus.Kylos 2014-06-01 08:17:38  
I know, but getting it would mean gimping my other WS on my other jobs, I don't just play DRK all the time (although if I could I would) and I need those other WS. Sucks really, oh well, I never get asked for Req on DRK anyway.

Back on topic, Liberator just looks badass also. I don't think I know anyone on my server who has one.
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By Phoenix.Urteil 2014-06-01 08:19:22  
It is my favorite model.

Apoc looking like something out of a bad hip-hop video wielded by some ruffian wearing a clock too large.


Make a weapon for what you love most, no choice makes any other sense. With that mindset you will never have regret.
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