St. Louis Vs. The Police: Part III Apocalypse Nigh

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フォーラム » Everything Else » Politics and Religion » St. Louis Vs. The Police: Part III Apocalypse Nigh
St. Louis Vs. The Police: Part III Apocalypse Nigh
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-11-26 16:58:57  
Hmm...

Bron Cruz seems like it's a Hispanic guy. So it's Hispanic vs. white Hispanic. Seems like nitpicking at this point.
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By Bloodrose 2014-11-26 16:59:26  
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Bloodrose said: »
Additionally, you have no experience in the medical profession, nor access to his actual medical records, as you are not his doctor, licensed as one, or even have the basic inkling that damage to the orbital socket will not be seen through the skin or flesh, unless there is a gaping wound there.

People can and have broken bones with little more than a bruise to show for it, until an X-ray is done.
I sure don't. But the facial bones are some of the densest and hardest in the body. Logic dictates they'd require a significant amount of force to do that much damage. One would also think the orbital socket being broken would cause some eye irritation at the very least.

Not to mention doctors notes from his examination after shooting Brown have no mention of any significant damage being done. But hey, what do doctors know?
truthfully, even being the densest bones in the human body, it really doesn't take a lot of pressure to break, crack or fracture. The Skeletal system, even of a person in perfect health, can be broken with less force than you think, as long as enough of it is applied to a singular area multiple times in a repeated fashion.

Additionally, even if there is no irritation right away, as I mentioned this before, there could be associated complications that happen down the road, such as minor to major irritation, to partial or complete blindness in one or both eyes.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-11-26 16:59:49  
I just like the comment about Mormons looting and rioting.
 Shiva.Viciousss
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2014-11-26 17:01:41  
He didn't get to the clinic until hours later I believe? He didn't have a fractured eyesocket or any serious facial injury. It would have been swollen to hell by then. It doesn't take a medical degree to know that.
 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2014-11-26 17:04:00  
Bloodrose said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Bloodrose said: »
Additionally, you have no experience in the medical profession, nor access to his actual medical records, as you are not his doctor, licensed as one, or even have the basic inkling that damage to the orbital socket will not be seen through the skin or flesh, unless there is a gaping wound there.

People can and have broken bones with little more than a bruise to show for it, until an X-ray is done.
I sure don't. But the facial bones are some of the densest and hardest in the body. Logic dictates they'd require a significant amount of force to do that much damage. One would also think the orbital socket being broken would cause some eye irritation at the very least.

Not to mention doctors notes from his examination after shooting Brown have no mention of any significant damage being done. But hey, what do doctors know?
truthfully, even being the densest bones in the human body, it really doesn't take a lot of pressure to break, crack or fracture. The Skeletal system, even of a person in perfect health, can be broken with less force than you think, as long as enough of it is applied to a singular area multiple times in a repeated fashion.
Repeated hits that didn't happen. He was punched once in the face and grappled, which he considered being hit.

I'm aware the brain and eyes are fragile things. However the claims were a broken/fractured orbital socket which was not the case.
 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2014-11-26 17:05:31  
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Hmm...

Bron Cruz seems like it's a Hispanic guy. So it's Hispanic vs. white Hispanic. Seems like nitpicking at this point.
Video quality is crap and the lighting makes discerning skin color difficult. Non-white seems accurate though.
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-11-26 17:09:29  
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Hmm...

Bron Cruz seems like it's a Hispanic guy. So it's Hispanic vs. white Hispanic. Seems like nitpicking at this point.
Video quality is crap and the lighting makes discerning skin color difficult. Non-white seems accurate though.
I only just noticed what your avi is. Always thought it was some type of blurry monster roaring. lmao!
 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2014-11-26 17:10:18  
My avi is the best.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-26 23:36:48  
I wonder if they'll arrest the stepfather for inciting a riot now, they should.
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 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-11-27 07:26:24  
Bloodrose said: »
Being punched in the face by a 290lb 18 year old would make pretty much anyone shaky as ***. That's a lot of force and pressure per square inch upon contact - enough to rattle the brain, and potentially leave it damaged, among other tissue and bone. Being hit where he was, it could also lead to blindness in one or both eyes down the road.

What you mean he wasn't a cherubic 12yo innocent "kid" just minding his own business and helping old ladies cross the street?

The amount of media bias from the left on this whole situation has gotten ridiculous. They are deliberately trying to incite riots and create racial tensions in a situation where there shouldn't be any.

I'm one most critical people about police actions as I think the "brotherhood in blue" is utter bullsh!t, how they lie to protect each other or refuse to present evidence to the DA on misconduct of one of their own. This is one of the few times when there was no police protection, they actually put the guy in front of a grand jury to determine prosecution instead of a DA waiving it away as "he was justified in the line of duty". The did actual investigation, granted it was under external scrutiny, but this is one of those times were the police actually did the thing regarding potential police misconduct. Also it's piss easy to get an indictment with a grand jury because there is no reasonable doubt standard. The rules and standards for an indictment are ridiculously low compared to a full trial. If the state couldn't convince a grand jury that Officer Wilson "probably" committed murder / homicide / manslaughter then they had zero chance of getting a conviction in a jury trial.
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 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2014-11-27 09:05:46  
Apparently the Grand Jury wasn't told that the law allowing officers to kill a fleeing suspect was repealed in 1985. Surely that had nothing to do with with the verdict at all.

Also:


Holy *** ***are you kidding me?
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By fonewear 2014-11-27 09:07:23  
Sweet mamba jamba I earned points for reading !
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By fonewear 2014-11-27 09:08:44  
This needs to become a thing. I'm this close to being a level two reader. I only need 10,000 more points.
 
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 Quetzalcoatl.Midgetking
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By Quetzalcoatl.Midgetking 2014-11-27 09:30:40  
I live like 30 min from all this ***, and i can care less at this point.
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By fonewear 2014-11-27 12:43:58  
So anyone going to be looting turkey today in honor of Ferguson ?

Burning down a KFC ?
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-27 13:04:37  
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Apparently the Grand Jury wasn't told that the law allowing officers to kill a fleeing suspect was repealed in 1985. Surely that had nothing to do with with the verdict at all.

Good thing he was charging the officer and not fleeing, otherwise that may be relevant.
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 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2014-11-27 13:40:25  
Jetackuu said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Apparently the Grand Jury wasn't told that the law allowing officers to kill a fleeing suspect was repealed in 1985. Surely that had nothing to do with with the verdict at all.

Good thing he was charging the officer and not fleeing, otherwise that may be relevant.
Says half of the forensic analysts. The other half says he was curling inwards to cradle the arm that had 4 bullets in it.

There has been no actual consensus.

That and according to the Ferguson Polices report he died ~35 feet from the car, meaning he attempted fleeing at some point.

Although amateur footage of the scene immediately after Browns death panned the street and I saw no police cruiser/suv remotely near him so 35 feet could be a complete lie as well.
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-27 13:52:36  
There was no bullets in the back, he obviously couldn't have been running away when he was shot. It's not that complicated of a concept, it doesn't matter how far from the cruiser they were.
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 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2014-11-27 13:58:09  
Jetackuu said: »
There was no bullets in the back, he obviously couldn't have been running away when he was shot. It's not that complicated of a concept, it doesn't matter how far from the cruiser they were.
He was hit 6-8 times, yes. But reports from people in the area claim more than that were fired.

Police don't have aimbots. I'd have stopped running and turned my *** around if I were being shot at and hope they realize I'd given up.

EDIT: Police reports 12 shots fired in total. He missed 4-6 shots before Brown was finally hit.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-11-27 14:36:11  
The whole charging vs fleeing thing... Apparently his blood was found as much as 25' farther from the car than his body, which would indicate that he did turn and move back toward the vehicle at some point, although, without seeing some kind of blood spatter analysis, I can think of about half a dozen ways that his blood could end up there without him having turned to charge at any point.

That said, if a cop was shooting at me and I had no reason to believe he would stop if I asked, you better bet I'd be doing my best to disarm him. I'd take an assaulting an officer charge if it meant I was alive.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-11-27 14:36:51  
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Jetackuu said: »
There was no bullets in the back, he obviously couldn't have been running away when he was shot. It's not that complicated of a concept, it doesn't matter how far from the cruiser they were.
He was hit 6-8 times, yes. But reports from people in the area claim more than that were fired.

Police don't have aimbots. I'd have stopped running and turned my *** around if I were being shot at and hope they realize I'd given up.

EDIT: Police reports 12 shots fired in total. He missed 4-6 shots before Brown was finally hit.


according to the findings, he was struck initially at the vehicle, a graze wound to his thumb.
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-11-27 14:44:26  
With the info dump of documents there are a lot of questions (and questionable procedures) that are still unanswered.

1. He tagged and bagged his own gun. It was not taken and processed according to protocol.

2. The gun was never finger printed. So his claims of Brown grabbing it or him losing control is unverified.

3. His first statement was not written down. It was taken by a fellow officer whose recording equipment "didn't work" and he didn't think to write the statement down. Nor did he wrote it down shortly afterwards. However, the officer and Wilson admit to having telephone conversations before the formal statement was in written form.

4. The coroners camera "had a broken battery" and he didn't take pictures at the scene nor did he do distance measurements.

5. And the expert on pot was an idiot.
Quote:
Ms Alizadeh later asked if the evidence showed that Brown had a "high dose", to which the toxicologist answered:

"This was a very large individual. I think he was about 300 pounds. So for a concentration of 12 nanograms in a large person, that shows it was a large dose. In a small person, say like 100 pounds, to get to 12 nanograms wouldn't take a lot. A single joint could easily do that. But when you talk about a larger body mass, just like drinking alcohol, larger persons can drink more alcohol because they have the receptacle to hold it."

Escentially saying that dose would affect a smaller person to a lesser degree.

6. He washed evidence off (blood) and admits it. Before photographs or reports.

There is enough holes for reasonable doubt. Maybe it happened completely how he stated but the police work was shoddy as hell.

Edited~
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-11-27 14:46:35  
Bahamut.Kara said: »
With the info dump of documents there are a lot of questions (and questionable procedures) that are still unanswered.

1. He tagged and bagged his own gun. It was not taken and processed according to protocol.

2. The gun was never finger printed. So his claims of Brown grabbing it or him losing control is unverified.

3. His first statement was not written down. It was taken by a fellow officer whose recording equipment "didn't work" and he didn't think to write the statement down. Nor did he wrote it down shortly afterwards. However, the officer and Wilson admit to having telephone conversations before the formal statement was in written form.

4. The coroners camera "had a broken battery" and he didn't take pictures at the scene nor did he do distance measurements.

There is enough holes for reasonable doubt. Maybe it happened completely how he stated the police work as shoddy as hell.


Yeah, it reeks of questionable investigating and possible manipulation, but the grand jury has to decide based on the evidence presented. Even if I don't like the outcome, that's how the court is supposed to work.
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-11-27 14:50:44  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
With the info dump of documents there are a lot of questions (and questionable procedures) that are still unanswered.

1. He tagged and bagged his own gun. It was not taken and processed according to protocol.

2. The gun was never finger printed. So his claims of Brown grabbing it or him losing control is unverified.

3. His first statement was not written down. It was taken by a fellow officer whose recording equipment "didn't work" and he didn't think to write the statement down. Nor did he wrote it down shortly afterwards. However, the officer and Wilson admit to having telephone conversations before the formal statement was in written form.

4. The coroners camera "had a broken battery" and he didn't take pictures at the scene nor did he do distance measurements.

There is enough holes for reasonable doubt. Maybe it happened completely how he stated the police work as shoddy as hell.


Yeah, it reeks of questionable investigating and possible manipulation, but the grand jury has to decide based on the evidence presented. Even if I don't like the outcome, that's how the court is supposed to work.
Um, no this was not how grand juries work usually.

The DA never recommended a charge. He gave the grand jury a full list and said you pick one.

He also told them that if there were any doubts they had to find in favor of Wilson, which is not what a grand jury is supposed to do.
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 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2014-11-27 15:04:35  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Jetackuu said: »
There was no bullets in the back, he obviously couldn't have been running away when he was shot. It's not that complicated of a concept, it doesn't matter how far from the cruiser they were.
He was hit 6-8 times, yes. But reports from people in the area claim more than that were fired.

Police don't have aimbots. I'd have stopped running and turned my *** around if I were being shot at and hope they realize I'd given up.

EDIT: Police reports 12 shots fired in total. He missed 4-6 shots before Brown was finally hit.


according to the findings, he was struck initially at the vehicle, a graze wound to his thumb.
Yeah, I forgot to account for that one. still missed 4-6 shots at some point.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-11-27 15:04:51  
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Kara said: »
With the info dump of documents there are a lot of questions (and questionable procedures) that are still unanswered.

1. He tagged and bagged his own gun. It was not taken and processed according to protocol.

2. The gun was never finger printed. So his claims of Brown grabbing it or him losing control is unverified.

3. His first statement was not written down. It was taken by a fellow officer whose recording equipment "didn't work" and he didn't think to write the statement down. Nor did he wrote it down shortly afterwards. However, the officer and Wilson admit to having telephone conversations before the formal statement was in written form.

4. The coroners camera "had a broken battery" and he didn't take pictures at the scene nor did he do distance measurements.

There is enough holes for reasonable doubt. Maybe it happened completely how he stated the police work as shoddy as hell.


Yeah, it reeks of questionable investigating and possible manipulation, but the grand jury has to decide based on the evidence presented. Even if I don't like the outcome, that's how the court is supposed to work.
Um, no this was not how grand juries work usually.

The DA never recommended a charge. He gave the grand jury a full list and said you pick one.

He also told them that if there were any doubts they had to find in favor of Wilson, which is not what a grand jury is supposed to do.

I may have phrased it poorly... Grand juries generally have the power to request any available evidence and take testimony. They could find next to nothing conclusive and rule it probable cause to indict, so obviously the prosecutor's instructions were poor.
They may not have had access to all the evidence they sought, obviously a lot of it was missing due to poor investigation. But, because of the secrecy surrounding grand juries, it's hard to say what their reasoning was.

I am curious, though, if the reports that his body laid in the street for HOURS are true, how was it that they weren't able to get the crime scene guys a new battery for their camera?
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-11-27 15:16:29  
Odin.Jassik said: »
I may have phrased it poorly... Grand juries generally have the power to request any available evidence and take testimony. They could find next to nothing conclusive and rule it probable cause to indict, so obviously the prosecutor's instructions were poor.
They may not have had access to all the evidence they sought, obviously a lot of it was missing due to poor investigation. But, because of the secrecy surrounding grand juries, it's hard to say what their reasoning was.

I am curious, though, if the reports that his body laid in the street for HOURS are true, how was it that they weren't able to get the crime scene guys a new battery for their camera?
From all accounts it was an info dump on the grand jury. Including listening to 60~ witnesses.

Crime scene medical examiner took no measurements or photos of Brown

transcript of grand jury proceedings on August 20th if anyone is interested

Edited ><
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By Jetackuu 2014-11-27 18:44:18  
Ragnarok.Raenil said: »
Jetackuu said: »
There was no bullets in the back, he obviously couldn't have been running away when he was shot. It's not that complicated of a concept, it doesn't matter how far from the cruiser they were.
He was hit 6-8 times, yes. But reports from people in the area claim more than that were fired.

Police don't have aimbots. I'd have stopped running and turned my *** around if I were being shot at and hope they realize I'd given up.

EDIT: Police reports 12 shots fired in total. He missed 4-6 shots before Brown was finally hit.

Personally I wouldn't have robbed a store, walked in the middle of the street, refuse to move out of the street, and punched a cop, but hell.

If I were being shot at, I wouldn't turn around, I'd hit the *** ground, or keep running, obviously depending on the situation. There's obviously a lot of real shitty police work involved, starting with some bad aim.

But there were testimonies to him telling Brown to get on the ground, after he had moved from the vehicle, so that nullifies your statement anyway, end of the day there's no evidence to your claim of he was fleeing.
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2014-11-27 18:59:48  
And there's no evidence he started the confrontation, besides a cop who's proven to have lied numerous times in his testimony.
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