The US Military And Global Warming

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フォーラム » Everything Else » Politics and Religion » The US military and global warming
The US military and global warming
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 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2014-11-20 12:12:59  
5 elements critical for war: Weather/Climate, Terrain, popular support, officers/generals, command/discipline.

Weather is serious war business. You don't want to go into a region and find out your guns aren't firing because the barrel shrink in the oddly cold winter. Or going somewhere that get the sand and heat into places you don't want to talk about and causing some critical equipments not functioning right.

Then you don't really want to find out that climate change would cause a simple rain becomes a giant flood catching your troops in the middle of it. You also don't want to slug through the permafrost as they start melting under your army.

The army isn't looking for a solution. It's looking for ways to respond to changing climate.
 Siren.Lordgrim
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By Siren.Lordgrim 2014-11-20 12:16:22  
Ramyrez said: »
Siren.Lordgrim said: »
thank god we still have the 2nd amendment.

you unpatriotic, godless, communist pig.

one of the most amazing things in the united states is you are free to believe in any religion you want i admit i am a believer myself i am not perfect but then again no one is. I love my country and for which it was founded for as a Republic for and by the people which produced a constitution that no other nation has. I am not a communist pig, but you can call me a Yankee good sir. The 2nd amendment protects the first and others and is the sole reason we never had a ground invasion in the Continental states since 1812.
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-11-20 12:16:52  
Siren.Lordgrim said: »
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Does Our Military Know Something We Don't About Global Warming? - Forbes (Which no one will claim is a liberal source.)

Quote:
Every branch of the United States Military is worried about climate change. They have been since well before it became controversial....

At a time when Presidents Ronald Reagan and Bush 41, and even British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, called for binding international protocols to control greenhouse gas emissions, the U.S. Military was seriously studying global warming in order to determine what actions they could take to prepare for the change in threats that our military will face in the future....

This year, the Military Advisory Board came out with a new report, called National Security and the Accelerating Risks of Climate Change, that is a serious discussion about what the military sees as the threats and the actions to be taken to mitigate them.

“The potential security ramifications of global climate change should be serving as catalysts for cooperation and change. Instead, climate change impacts are already accelerating instability in vulnerable areas of the world and are serving as catalysts for conflict.”

the " accelerating instability in vulnerable areas of the world and are serving as catalysts for conflict" this sounds to me as preparation for protecting or fighting for resources, like water. i know it seems like oil all the time but folks need to realize water is like gold, and not a lot of areas have a vast abundance of it or means to get it. It could be a means to start a conflict over, or food shortages.

in before someone says convert ocean water


The USA and most first world nations are protected from resource shortages which include oil and water by way of our access to advanced synthesis technology. We already have the ability to create both water and oil, it's just less economical then using what's already created. In the case of water you have both desalinization and straight up synthesis though synthesizing that much H2O would be expensive as f*ck energy wise. Oil (all hydrocarbons really) is in a similiar boat, you can create it with just Oxygen / Hydrogen and Carbon in a process similiar to what we use to make industrial grade diamonds.

All this requires access to compact and efficient sources of energy, which the USA has had since the last 60's. It was mothballed because it didn't produce plutonium for the DoD's strategic missile defense program and because it was simply too cheap, would ruin the economy's of many of our oil exporting Allies along with massive loss's for any hydrocarbon based energy company. MSR/LFTR has an efficiency of 5000~10000% (that's not a typo) greater then that of traditional Gen II PWR/BWR plants. Uranium fueled plants only burn about 1~2% of the available fuel while Thorium LFTR/MSR burns 99.99%. They are also passively safe, it's not possible for them to go critical and have a run away reaction / meltdown. Imagine the worldwide economic effects if energy prices were reduced by a factor of 100 during the early to late 70's.

If we suddenly were placed in a truly life or death situation where the survivability of the nation were at stake, the first people to be tossed would be the progressives. That much cheap energy is simply too big of a boon to pass up in desperate times. It's the reason the Chinese walked into ORNL, went to the archives and copied all the (now declassified and public record) data on the MSRE. They have launched their own program to verify the results and mass produce MSR/LFTR to solve their own economy's energy demands.
 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2014-11-20 12:17:33  
They didn't gather all the data needed during Vietnam? I'm surprised.
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By Ramyrez 2014-11-20 12:20:34  
Siren.Lordgrim said: »
Ramyrez said: »
Siren.Lordgrim said: »
thank god we still have the 2nd amendment.

you unpatriotic, godless, communist pig.

one of the most amazing things in the united states is you are free to believe in any religion you want i admit i am a believer myself i am not perfect but then again no one is. I love my country and for which it was founded for as a Republic for and by the people which produced a constitution that no other nation has. I am not a communist pig, but you can call me a Yankee good sir. The 2nd amendment protects the first and others and is the sole reason we never had a ground invasion in the Continental states since 1812.

Quoting just that section of my post implies that you may have missed my intended sarcasm level or underlying narrative.

It's okay though.
 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-11-20 12:23:12  
Garuda.Chanti said: »
Leviathan.Chaosx said: »
Can't we just set off some volcanoes to slow down any warming?
Talk to Nik about that. I think he has a few volcanoes wired up already.

you are without a doubt the worst secret keeper EVER!

no chrismahanukwanzakah hash brownies for you!

/gives you a lump of coal to burn to help increase global warming
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2014-11-20 12:25:15  
Leviathan.Andret said: »
Weather is serious war business.

says the guy with a canadian flag next to his avatar...

HOW WOULD YOU KNOW!?
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-11-20 12:26:20  
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »
They didn't gather all the data needed during Vietnam? I'm surprised.

?

During that time new nuclear technology was classified, the details would not of been made available. Someone would need a L or Q clearance (DOE/NRC version of the DoD Secret / Top Secret) to get the technical data on exactly how to do it.

Thing is, all classified documents have a built in expiration date determined by the classification authority. The default expiration date is 25 years and is automatic unless special permission is requested. So all that technical data has been declassified, the concept has been publicly known but nobody wanted to pay for further study, and now any other country can pickup where the US left off and build their own. Not like we didn't have our own running successfully for several years that validated both the concept and the predicted efficiency values.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten-Salt_Reactor_Experiment
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-11-20 12:51:51  
Meanwhile in Russia:

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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-11-23 15:20:10  
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 Leviathan.Andret
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By Leviathan.Andret 2014-11-23 16:26:32  
Shiva.Nikolce said: »
Leviathan.Andret said: »
Weather is serious war business.

says the guy with a canadian flag next to his avatar...

HOW WOULD YOU KNOW!?

Armchair general!!! I lead armies and conquered worlds!

I usually just nuke them all or just kill everything with tanks.
 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2014-11-23 16:49:01  
Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
The real danger to the world is that it is liberals that subscribe to the religion of global warming and they will never, ever, eh-eh-eh-eh-ever admit when they are wrong....
Did you read the article? Are you calling the U S military liberal?
 Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2014-11-23 17:48:21  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Thing is, all classified documents have a built in expiration date determined by the classification authority. The default expiration date is 25 years and is automatic unless special permission is requested.

No. I've created several secret documents and they remained secret for 6 years before dropping one level (to confidential). There is no default of 25 years.
 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2014-11-23 18:43:02  
Leviathan.Protey said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Thing is, all classified documents have a built in expiration date determined by the classification authority. The default expiration date is 25 years and is automatic unless special permission is requested.

No. I've created several secret documents and they remained secret for 6 years before dropping one level (to confidential). There is no default of 25 years.

*Cough* *** *Cough*
 Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2014-11-24 07:20:25  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Leviathan.Protey said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Thing is, all classified documents have a built in expiration date determined by the classification authority. The default expiration date is 25 years and is automatic unless special permission is requested.

No. I've created several secret documents and they remained secret for 6 years before dropping one level (to confidential). There is no default of 25 years.

*Cough* *** *Cough*

I'm in the military dumbass. your reply holds no merit.
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By fonewear 2014-11-24 07:40:48  
One global warming thread wasn't enough ?
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 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-11-24 08:28:37  
Leviathan.Protey said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Thing is, all classified documents have a built in expiration date determined by the classification authority. The default expiration date is 25 years and is automatic unless special permission is requested.

No. I've created several secret documents and they remained secret for 6 years before dropping one level (to confidential). There is no default of 25 years.
He's talking about declassification procedures. There is an executive order detailing declassification after 25 years, for a lot of the documents. These EO's have been updated and issued since the 1950's

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13526
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 Garuda.Chanti
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By Garuda.Chanti 2014-11-24 10:18:15  
fonewear said: »
One global warming thread wasn't enough ?
Nope.
 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2014-11-24 10:29:04  
it's time to declare WAR on global warming, then this thread could be 'the us military verus global warming', and thus be interesting.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2014-11-24 10:43:04  
Order troops to fire into the ocean and bomb the rivers and streams. When that fails start paying off plankton and algae who we declared earlier were our enemies. Ramp up a surge against melting ice caps then be forced to retreat from the coastlines after a bitter decades long engagement.

COOL DAMN YOU, COOL. WE HAVE TO STOP THE WARMING.
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By fonewear 2014-11-24 10:47:28  
I suggest we block the Sun Mr. Burns style. The Sun has been eating up my profits as a nuclear power plant owner !

"Ever since the beginning of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun. I shall do the next best thing: block it out."




Also South Park kid (Simpsons did it Simpsons did it !)


http://southpark.cc.com/clips/153481/blocking-out-the-sun
 Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2014-11-24 12:34:32  
Bahamut.Kara said: »
Leviathan.Protey said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Thing is, all classified documents have a built in expiration date determined by the classification authority. The default expiration date is 25 years and is automatic unless special permission is requested.

No. I've created several secret documents and they remained secret for 6 years before dropping one level (to confidential). There is no default of 25 years.
He's talking about declassification procedures. There is an executive order detailing declassification after 25 years, for a lot of the documents. These EO's have been updated and issued since the 1950's

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13526


i know he is talking about declassification procedures.... and he is wrong. He said "all classified documents" and that "special permission is required". I will refer you to army regulation 380-5 Department of the Army Information Security Program. Go to page 10. Paragraph 2-11 Duration of Classification:

"Information will be declassified as soon as it no longer meets the standards for classification. Information will remain
classified as long as it is in the interest of national security and meets the criteria stated in this regulation. At the time
an item of information is originally classified, the original classifier must decide the length of time the information will
require classification and select an appropriate declassification date or event...." then on to subparagraphs:
"a. At the time of original classification, the original classification authority will attempt to establish a specific date
or event for declassification based upon the duration of the national security sensitivity of the information. The OCA
will attempt to determine a date, within ten years from the date of classification, upon which the information can be
automatically declassified. If that is not possible, they will attempt to determine a specific event, reasonably expected
to occur within 10 years, that can be set as the signal for automatic declassification of the information. This is referred
to as the “ten–year rule.” The date or event will not exceed the time frame in subparagraph c, below.

b. If information has originally been assigned a date or event for declassification of ten years or less, in accordance
with subparagraph a above, and the OCA later has reason to believe longer protection is required, the classification can
be extended for successive periods of up to ten years at a time, not to exceed the time period in subparagraph e, below,
where applicable.

c. If unable to determine a date or event that is ten years or less, the OCA will assign an exemption designation to
the information, if the information qualifies for exemption from automatic declassification in ten years. This could be
done if the unauthorized disclosure of the information could reasonably be expected to cause damage to the national
security, if specific information requires a period beyond 10 years from the date of original classification, and the
release of the information could reasonably be expected to result in one or more of the following..."

As you can see, 25 years does not apply to "all classified documents". Yes there are provisions for a 25-year declassification for such things that are deemed "permanently valuable records", but that does not apply to "all", nor is it the default.
 Bahamut.Kara
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By Bahamut.Kara 2014-11-24 13:04:27  
Leviathan.Protey said: »
Yes, I am aware.

Which is why I didn't say all documents.

However, I thought your problem with his statements was the 25 year expiration, not his "all documents" statement. There was plenty wrong in his statement, I was just referring to the EO detailing 25 years (which is not a blanket 25year term, but with different time limits or no declassification if still deemed necessary).

Declassification is complicated. That doesn't even get into FOIA requests.

Edit: added sentence that I somehow deleted
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By Ramyrez 2014-11-24 13:41:10  
fonewear said: »
I suggest we block the Sun Mr. Burns style. The Sun has been eating up my profits as a nuclear power plant owner !

"Ever since the beginning of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun. I shall do the next best thing: block it out."




Also South Park kid (Simpsons did it Simpsons did it !)


http://southpark.cc.com/clips/153481/blocking-out-the-sun

South Park is doing something else the Simpsons did first.

It's still going on for like a decade too long.
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By fonewear 2014-11-24 13:47:29  
Speaking of something that should have ended global warming called they want a new political discussion !
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-11-24 14:10:25  
Ramyrez said: »
fonewear said: »
I suggest we block the Sun Mr. Burns style. The Sun has been eating up my profits as a nuclear power plant owner !

"Ever since the beginning of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun. I shall do the next best thing: block it out."




Also South Park kid (Simpsons did it Simpsons did it !)


http://southpark.cc.com/clips/153481/blocking-out-the-sun

South Park is doing something else the Simpsons did first.

It's still going on for like a decade too long.
Aside from the last two episodes, this season has been great.

I think you might just be getting old or too liberal, or both, lol.
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By fonewear 2014-11-24 14:21:14  
The rooster playing MTG was great




Lol:

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By Altimaomega 2014-11-24 14:37:59  
fonewear said: »
One global warming thread wasn't enough ?

Gotta spread that propaganda.
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 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2014-11-24 14:43:15  
Oh yeah *** magic was funny too. I was just thinking about that episode with the virtual reality goggles. Very meh.
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