Reisenjima T4s

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Reisenjima T4s
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 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2017-03-01 16:59:11  
Asura.Frod said: »
Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
Zerde is Zerde, .

I am more interested in if ppl have tried and if so WHAT did they use to try. Drk Zerg? Mnk + Formless strikes? Enspell spam? Would assume are not many ws or jobs that can match the numbers of a mage setup but I do want to know if it has been Melee burnt.

Manaburn setup involving smn:
RUN, WHM, SCH/BLM x2, BLM 1+, SMN 1+, GEO x2, RDM and/or BRD.

SMN starts fight with AF up. Everyone goes for ES stun on pop's JD. SCH#1 starts fusion skillchains after bolstered bubbles are up. SCH #2 for stunbitch. BLMs trigger proc thru bursting Fire 6, once procced, RUN pops abilities, SMN pop conduit SCH#1 pops tabula and spams SC as ifrit melts him with 99k meteor strike bursts. Properly run, a single me-tier SMN can easily break 50%+ of the HP on zerde in a 12 man setup.
I like it.
 Odin.Llewelyn
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2017-03-01 17:20:24  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Is anyone willing to do a writeup on 18man melee strategies for schah or onychophora? I've managed to kill both, but schah is messy
We have a video on a 12-man melee Schah. Can't imagine general strategy changing much for 18-man, however after the BRD/GEO/RDM changes, it may call for different buffs. Our priority on which adds to pull are Gaja > Bhata > Ratha = Ashva. We found Gaja's shield to be difficult or near-impossible to take down with a melee, so we go after him first to give him as short of an opportunity as possible to put it up. Ashva seems to take reduced physical damage and take a while to kill, so if there's a Gaja or Bhata up, we go for them first. We kill the Mantri last so we don't have 2 mobs up capable of spamming Interference, or if you think you'd be fine meleeing Schah without a tank (I've never tried, so don't know if it's simple or not), you could just have the tank hold the Mantri off like usual, and potentially even a Gaja if shield was put up.

For Schah post-update, you may want to add in some Fire Carols for Malign Invocation's Amnesia and Dark Carol for reduced damage from most TP abilities in addition to Curse resistance. A stunner is recommended for at least Interference, Enthrall and Dark Arrivisme. Schah starts building resistance to Stun after a while, so you don't want to be stunning too many things. However, after the recent update, I imagine keeping Schah in check with Stuns would be rather difficult due to Frazzle and Threnody generally needing to be paired with Elemental Seal/Troubadour to land on iLv150 content while Schah loves to fully erase his debuffs.

Also, Arcane Circle does some work.

Edit: Somehow forgot about the reduced evasion on these NMs. Stuns were kinda important before 'cause Soul Voice Madrigals were a huge help, but after the recent update, I imagine you could just get an unlazy BRD to reapply songs the entire fight and be fine getting Dispelled every now and then if Stunning proves to be a challenge on something that constantly erases itself. Also note I haven't fought Schah, let alone any Reisenjima HELMs after the recent update, so I could be dumb about some things.
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-03-01 18:02:53  
I've killed it since update and have a general idea what's required, just doesn't seem at all reliable. Besieger's, banneret, shield, charm.. stuns are unreliable at best and there's so many opportunities for a wipe that it feels like melee is just rolling the dice. Maybe I got unlucky, but it took me 5 tries to get a single win post-update, and I have multiple idris/full REMA brds/top of the line DD. With mage setup, you could entirely eliminate the possibility of bad TP by killing adds before they got TP and using fealty for the last 30% of schah.

Just wondering if anyone's killed it multiple times since update and has a full, consistant, strategy to do so.. it feels like a crapshoot. (I assumed mage doesn't work, if that's not the case I'm fine with that too.. or RNG)
 Asura.Taberif
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By Asura.Taberif 2017-03-01 18:07:41  
we kill schah everytime now with conduit burn 3smn pld geo. I've heard of other groups doing 5smn with 13 total and barely winning before 2nd add. so im sure you could just take more smns vs leeches if you scale dps/leech properly
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-03-01 18:33:33  
It's worth noting that for Schah doing the fight melee style without killing adds might be viable too. I'm also not convinced that we understand its DT mechanics thoroughly either.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-03-04 18:13:56  
Tried Schah using the SMN setup, but I only have 1 nirvana(3 near-perfect smns, but 2 were using gridarvor as they did not have nirvana) and got pet amnesiaed during conduit so only got it to 40%ish~. Wondering if the people who claim to win every time really do so, seems like you lose over 1/4 of your conduit if your pet gets amnesiaed. Regardless, not a viable option for me unless I finish more nirvanas.

That said, RNG works decent. I used:
RNG RNG RNG COR BRD GEO
PLD RUN WHM Leech

and finished in 28 min despite a charm landing and burning some time. Forgot barrage was a thing until halfway through schah, and didn't have my COR shooting at all, so there's definitely room for improvement on speed. PLD supertanked afk, run pulled single adds to kill. PLD tanked schah, but either would have worked I assume. No one hours were necessary.

Some observations:
-Schah's stygian sphere shields seem to be a ranged stoneskin(less than 10,000 damage). Saw some 0 damage shots immediately after shield, but it was always down in seconds. Didn't see if the same was true for Gaja.

-Schah seems to have 50% reduction to physical/piercing/ranged after all adds are dead. Bolster didn't increase damage dealt, and it was about half what my RNGs typically deal. I would lean toward physical from my experience on BLU.

-Accuracy was capped on Schah and the adds with honor march/preludex2/sushi. May not have needed all of them.

-Ratio was capped on Schah with crooked chaos, honor march, minuetx2, fury, frailty. Did not need blaze of glory, may not have needed others. Unsure on adds, as too much was going on and some seem to have some PDT/etc.
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2017-03-06 11:12:31  
We only did one, but melee Schah was surprisingly very easy. Cleared with about 15min remaining(10min for adds, 5min for Schah). Had 1 "oshit" moment with ST20 on adds where HPs got pretty low, though. Charm was not a major factor, though one did go off at 15%(after the DDs buffer wore when used at 50%), but PLD still had either fealty or buffer up and was able to tank the DD until we uncharmed.

Setup:

PLD WHM BRD PLD

SAM BLU DRK WHM COR GEO

SCH GEO BRD

This is just what we had available and we didn't want to leave anyone out just to lower HP so I'm sure it can be optimized.

BRD: We split the BRD SPs and used it on the 5 carols(ice/fire/dark) so it was up for both adds and Schah. Other did Honor/March/Madx2.

GEO: BoG frailty/vex on adds with GEO in DD party doing attunement. Bolster Vex/Frailty during Schah zerg.

PLD: Main PLD supertanked while 2nd PLD pulled adds and tanked Mantri far away during Schah zerg.

DDs: Parse was like SAM 35% BLU 25% DRK 23% COR 8%. Hit rate was as low as 85% depending on how unlucky a DD was with dispels. In hindsight we should have used BoG Torpor. Ideally, in the future, would rather take WAR over BLU for Warcry and Mighty Strikes during Schah Zerg.
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2017-03-06 11:25:46  
I was still on Fealty #1 when Enthrall went off. Starting at just above 50% I went, Charm Buffer>Fealty>Super revit>Fealty,for a total of 4:20 protection from Charm. Also locked in resist charm set. Schah died well before the second fealty ended.

Over all it was a really clean, satisfying fight. Only thing I'd change would be giving the add PLD a dedicated WHM. Or figuring some way to position so that my WHM can cast on both without eating AOE.
 Bahamut.Boogerballs
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By Bahamut.Boogerballs 2017-03-06 11:57:47  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Tried Schah using the SMN setup, but I only have 1 nirvana(3 near-perfect smns, but 2 were using gridarvor as they did not have nirvana) and got pet amnesiaed during conduit so only got it to 40%ish~. Wondering if the people who claim to win every time really do so, seems like you lose over 1/4 of your conduit if your pet gets amnesiaed. Regardless, not a viable option for me unless I finish more nirvanas.

That said, RNG works decent. I used:
RNG RNG RNG COR BRD GEO
PLD RUN WHM Leech

and finished in 28 min despite a charm landing and burning some time. Forgot barrage was a thing until halfway through schah, and didn't have my COR shooting at all, so there's definitely room for improvement on speed. PLD supertanked afk, run pulled single adds to kill. PLD tanked schah, but either would have worked I assume. No one hours were necessary.

Some observations:
-Schah's stygian sphere shields seem to be a ranged stoneskin(less than 10,000 damage). Saw some 0 damage shots immediately after shield, but it was always down in seconds. Didn't see if the same was true for Gaja.

-Schah seems to have 50% reduction to physical/piercing/ranged after all adds are dead. Bolster didn't increase damage dealt, and it was about half what my RNGs typically deal. I would lean toward physical from my experience on BLU.

-Accuracy was capped on Schah and the adds with honor march/preludex2/sushi. May not have needed all of them.

-Ratio was capped on Schah with crooked chaos, honor march, minuetx2, fury, frailty. Did not need blaze of glory, may not have needed others. Unsure on adds, as too much was going on and some seem to have some PDT/etc.

Nirvana is super important when using the physical bp smn strat. its a gamechanger. my ls has quite a few nirvana/hq smns and schah dies 1/2 time time before adds even pop. its totally doable, just need to gear your smns a little more. im not claiming to be a smn expert but the smns really need nirvana and hq gear to pull this off. also the dt goes in to effect after the 2nd add pops so u have a little extra time to play with.
 Odin.Taffy
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By Odin.Taffy 2017-03-06 14:14:27  
We tried Schah last night. Idris Geo and frazzle 3 landed and the resist rate was horrible. I've had no problem landing 99,999 on all the mobs up to this point. The best I was landing last night on Bhata was 74k. Second death landing from another blm who consistently does 5 9's and it was landing for 40k ish. We did not have a brd for Dark Therondy 2 last night but will next week. Any advice?
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-03-06 16:37:08  
Odin.Taffy said: »
We tried Schah last night. Idris Geo and frazzle 3 landed and the resist rate was horrible. I've had no problem landing 99,999 on all the mobs up to this point. The best I was landing last night on Bhata was 74k. Second death landing from another blm who consistently does 5 9's and it was landing for 40k ish. We did not have a brd for Dark Therondy 2 last night but will next week. Any advice?

Use Thunder for the adds, you can down them with two SC's. Death is for Schah and only have a ES Sab Frazzle III is landed with a boosted Dark Threnody II.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2017-03-06 17:52:22  
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
5min for Schah

Quote:
tanked Mantri far away during Schah zerg.

Did you observe ~50% PDT? I'd believe those DD are significantly better than my BLUs, but not enough better to drop it in 5 min. I always kill mantri, wondering if that could be related to the PDT(especially since SMNs don't seem to have to deal with it when zerging).
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2017-03-06 18:41:11  
Yeah, there was definitely around 50% PDT for us. Fudo only averaged around 15K outside of SP1/2, which is about 1/2 of what I'm used to seeing depending on TP overflow. We engaged at :27:39 and it died at :33:48 with about 30 seconds of that being charmed.

Also, it used 26 TP moves during zerg. 4 were Interference and 4 were Sphere. I see 2 Besieger's Bane, but we were not terror at all during the zerg, so I assumed we resisted it with bolster vex and SV'd carol.
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 Bahamut.Neb
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By Bahamut.Neb 2017-03-06 20:46:21  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Odin.Taffy said: »
We tried Schah last night. Idris Geo and frazzle 3 landed and the resist rate was horrible. I've had no problem landing 99,999 on all the mobs up to this point. The best I was landing last night on Bhata was 74k. Second death landing from another blm who consistently does 5 9's and it was landing for 40k ish. We did not have a brd for Dark Therondy 2 last night but will next week. Any advice?

Use Thunder for the adds, you can down them with two SC's. Death is for Schah and only have a ES Sab Frazzle III is landed with a boosted Dark Threnody II.

if you dont have ES up for some reason or aren't /blm you can land Frazzle 3 very easily when you burst it before death lands so you can use your revit for Sab instead of ES.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-03-06 21:49:23  
Bahamut.Neb said: »
if you dont have ES up for some reason or aren't /blm you can land Frazzle 3 very easily when you burst it before death lands so you can use your revit for Sab instead of ES.


...

Revit restores ~all~ JA's, you don't use it for a specific one. Sab is consumed regardless if the enfeeble lands or not, this pairing it with ES very useful as you can guarantee it landing. Immediately use super revit and you can guarantee it once more time, which should be more then long enough.

Also there is no longer "land is easy" with ~any~ spell on T4's now. With the nerf to Focus + Langour the magic evasion discrepancy is ridiculous and your not landing jack *** consistently (I've randomly landed Addle II and Slow II on Sandworm T4 before) without using JA's and / or having a BRD do an enhanced (SV or Marcato with ES or NT) Threnody II.
 Asura.Boogerballs
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By Asura.Boogerballs 2017-03-07 16:15:41  
u also have stymie if es is down
 Asura.Frod
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By Asura.Frod 2017-03-07 16:28:22  
Bahamut.Boogerballs said: »

Nirvana is super important when using the physical bp smn strat. its a gamechanger. my ls has quite a few nirvana/hq smns and schah dies 1/2 time time before adds even pop. its totally doable, just need to gear your smns a little more. im not claiming to be a smn expert but the smns really need nirvana and hq gear to pull this off. also the dt goes in to effect after the 2nd add pops so u have a little extra time to play with.

The reason nirvana is a game changer is specifically the 3k tp aftermath use due to november's update, a double or triple attack proc when each hit is worth 20k is amazing. The bigger boost however comes from stacking job point astral flow and conduit categories.

Flatly a summoner who wants advanced endgame will need job master to function.
 Asura.Boogerballs
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By Asura.Boogerballs 2017-03-07 16:45:26  
thats kind of a given tho...
 Asura.Frod
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By Asura.Frod 2017-03-07 18:28:26  
Asura.Boogerballs said: »
thats kind of a given tho...
Not really, as i've seen plenty of people attempt it without.
 Odin.Taffy
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By Odin.Taffy 2017-03-12 22:00:07  
Any idea why Zerde is getting Bio aura when Just Desserts is successfuly stunned?
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By Perdi 2017-03-12 22:57:16  
Did Schah 2 nights ago after the update. It popped one Bhata, One Ashva and One Gaja over the entire 30 minute fight. After those 3 adds, none others appeared. We proceeded to {Full Attack!} Schah after waiting around for 3 minutes while no more bhata's appeared.

Not sure why he glitched and haven't attempted since. Could be an issue related to the new boss they added in Omen, a line cut here or there just ruined the encounter since I don't believe 3/14 mobs is an intended nerf.

Feels bad that we beat Schah with only 20 seconds to spare though...
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2017-03-12 23:32:58  
It's happened before; there should be an example posted somewhere early in this thread. I don't think the root cause was ever established however, and it's quite possibly nothing more than a rare glitch.
 Shiva.Hiep
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By Shiva.Hiep 2017-03-22 08:08:24  
Not sure if anyone pointed this out already, but Eriny's aura drops once it uses its TP move Vermillion Wind. We went a bit too fast on TPing and reaving wind went off at 7%, so we decided to just push it since we had the time. Wouldn't really recommend pushing it unless time is fine, since hate is wonky during aura and Vermillion Wind had a huge radius hitting everyone for 2-3k except the PLD.
 Shiva.Spynx
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By Shiva.Spynx 2017-03-22 09:27:11  
Perdi said: »
Did Schah 2 nights ago after the update. It popped one Bhata, One Ashva and One Gaja over the entire 30 minute fight. After those 3 adds, none others appeared. We proceeded to {Full Attack!} Schah after waiting around for 3 minutes while no more bhata's appeared.

Not sure why he glitched and haven't attempted since. Could be an issue related to the new boss they added in Omen, a line cut here or there just ruined the encounter since I don't believe 3/14 mobs is an intended nerf.

Feels bad that we beat Schah with only 20 seconds to spare though...

Remember reading this and there was the theory that if you killed adds fast enough in a certain order (given by a specific chess game opening move as all Schah adds map to a certain chess piece) it would stop spawning additional adds. This was never proven to be valid either as lack of testing or as Schah is pretty easy anyways with the right setup/players so nobody bothered to test
 Bahamut.Boogerballs
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By Bahamut.Boogerballs 2017-03-22 10:36:19  
Shiva.Spynx said: »
Perdi said: »
Did Schah 2 nights ago after the update. It popped one Bhata, One Ashva and One Gaja over the entire 30 minute fight. After those 3 adds, none others appeared. We proceeded to {Full Attack!} Schah after waiting around for 3 minutes while no more bhata's appeared.

Not sure why he glitched and haven't attempted since. Could be an issue related to the new boss they added in Omen, a line cut here or there just ruined the encounter since I don't believe 3/14 mobs is an intended nerf.

Feels bad that we beat Schah with only 20 seconds to spare though...

Remember reading this and there was the theory that if you killed adds fast enough in a certain order (given by a specific chess game opening move as all Schah adds map to a certain chess piece) it would stop spawning additional adds. This was never proven to be valid either as lack of testing or as Schah is pretty easy anyways with the right setup/players so nobody bothered to test

i believe the move you are talking about is called checkmate. its a rumor tho
 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2017-03-22 12:29:00  
it was my LS that first experienced it, i haven't seen anyone experience it again until this report so i'm unsure if there's an actual mechanic or if it just glitches out sometimes
 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2017-03-24 13:14:21  
Odin.Taffy said: »
Any idea why Zerde is getting Bio aura when Just Desserts is successfuly stunned?
It happens roughly 20-30% of the time. Just Desserts isn't the only way for him to gain the aura, but as long as you stun Just Desserts, the aura will not expand beyond about 10-15 yalms and your mages should remain safe.
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2017-04-04 10:51:23  
How are people doing Schah these days? Been having a bit of trouble doing it mage style. Gaja goes down a bit slower now so we've been dealing with Beiseger's Bane woes and for whatever reason, we can't get the shield to go down even with multiple SC+MBs. The fight has generally been going really smooth until the last few adds and then it goes south really fast once the Gaja *** us.
 Shiva.Spynx
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By Shiva.Spynx 2017-04-04 11:01:55  
We stopped doing mage style Schah since update as, even if you get to Schah itself, death will often suck unless you do all sorts of debuffs (threnody, frazzle3, focus/languor). Our last 2 runs we did it RNG style low man (9-10 ppl - 2 tanks + whm + geo, geo brd cor 3 rng) and adds go down incredibly fast and schah isn't a huge problem either but we have pretty good rngs and shooting cor. I think it'd be even faster melee but you need an amazing WHM for all those status/nasty moves and amnesia can make it slower (empy AM3 white dmg ftw)
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By Leviathan.Nitenichi 2017-04-04 11:03:05  
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
How are people doing Schah these days? Been having a bit of trouble doing it mage style. Gaja goes down a bit slower now so we've been dealing with Beiseger's Bane woes and for whatever reason, we can't get the shield to go down even with multiple SC+MBs. The fight has generally been going really smooth until the last few adds and then it goes south really fast once the Gaja *** us.

Just melee, only "problem you run into" is on Gaja have to skillchain and Aero bursts til it breaks. Once past that continue to melee til dead. Extremely straight-forward especially with a group like you have.
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