Struggling With Kirin/Koryu

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Struggling with Kirin/Koryu
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By Taffy 2016-10-17 12:47:44  
Hi All,

Any advice would be appreciated. We tried Kirin V2 last night and we got really close but ultimately wiped at 12% on form 2 because of some mistakes made.

Setup was:

Party 1: Geo Geo Blm Blm Blm Blm
Party 2: Pld Pld Run Whm Whm Geo
Party 3: Sch Sch Cor

Form 1 was simple enough - Wind MB down, Killed adds as they popped. Took us a few times to figure out how best to deal with Seiryu's retaliation but when we figured out that the sch who's doing SC should just run and stand on him to keep him in bubble it wasn't hard. Our last run Byakko spawned first, killed him, then Seiryu and we killed him. Had Kirin change to Kouryu at 27 mins. Exciting we thought we had it down.

Pld's stacked on right foot everyone else on left foot. Kept 1 whm out of range for petrification. Proceeded to begin nuking sticking with Wind MB. Got him down to 19% and boom he popped all 4 adds and we wiped. Had a dotter disband and proceed to keep bio 2 on to hold him at 19% while we recovered. Unfortunately some people didnt have reraise so it took us about 9 minutes to recover. We still had 16 mins left. Felt good still. Pld 1 flashed genbu and ran away to hold adds. Other pld voked Kouryu and bam he turned. We re adjusted and got on his feet. Seemed okay. Sch started to sc, we got slowed. First volley took him down to 12%. Decided to go for death volley as all high tier wind was down. Other sch opened Grav. Sch 1 didn't hear the call and *** up the sc, death went off didnt do ***as the geos had died and there was no mb. By this time Pld 1 was down and the adds came back and raped us. We called it a night.

Was frustrating as we were very close and of course that last death volley would have probably finished it off but still feel like were missing something.

Any advice appreciated!

ps. The parse was as follows, Blm 1@ 37%, Blm 2@ 31% Blm 3 and 4@ 12% ish each. We know these 2 blm need some work and we are pushing that now, was this really the difference between a win and a loss?
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By Brynach 2016-10-17 13:37:44  
Ive heard of some groups popping Kirin, then having the two tanks use a sprinters drink and pulling the nm down to the bottom directly below where it was popped. This way, I believe mages are out of range of any aoe stuff, adds don't pop near mages, and you all can nuke with more safety. Not only that, but the whm can still cure or remove debuffs.
This may not work for you at all, but it could possibly be worth a shot. Also, have your blms put 5/5 into Tornado II, and that's another fairly high damage spell that has the same-ish casting time as a T6 spell.

If you have any SMN(s), adding them to the fight can speed it up tremendously. AF/AC on the second form with SCH on sc spam, and it can die in a matter of seconds. Additionally, if you aren't focused on the BLM method, then you could try to melee it down. That is even more fun imo.
Lastly, there is probably always going to be some disparity between your damage dealers. I wouldn't attribute that directly to a loss, but, obviously, bumping up their damage will help.
It seems as though you know what needs to be done, just got unlucky.
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 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2016-10-17 13:38:59  
Considering the HP scaling, it is fairly important that people pull their weight- particularly if it's your first time doing it.

Are you having your SCH Tabula Rasa and spamming SCs once it changes?
Are your BLMs using Manawall after the change to Kouryu?
Is everyone popping tonics to avoid Petrification (and Terror if someone happens to already have a win or has from a chest) as soon as it changes?
Is the COR prebuffing the BLM party?

I'd also switch a PLD to RUN (for Gambit/Rayke on Kouryu) if at all possible. (EDIT: didn't notice that you had a 3rd tank that is RUN- Ummm, I think you might have too many tanks)
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 Bismarck.Nobunobu
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By Bismarck.Nobunobu 2016-10-17 13:46:57  
From experience, the longer the Kirin fight is the higher chance of loss. Your #3 and #4 blm aren't contributing enough for the fight for sure. I'll suggest trying the fight with lower # of players and perhaps do it twice in order to get everyone win.
The setup we run for our group:

Party #1 BLMx3-4, GEOx2
Party #2 PLD, RUN, WHM, COR, SCH

Strategy: Before popping, have BLM pt with COR rolls and windstrom 2. PLD pops and runs down the stairs, RUN/NIN main tanks. GEOx2 starts with blaze of glory. SCH SC: BLM x4 starts with aero-JA/GA and afterward single spell only to avoid damaging adds as they pop. 1st part of kirin is pretty much danger free unless the all the adds pop and PLD is incapable of tanking them.

2nd Form: Have everyone use steadfest, blms manawall+manafont, everyone run to the front paw, GEO's Bolster, SCH SP SC, RUN uses Gambit+Rayke, BLMx3-4 aero ja/ga. COR: wildcard, Run uses Gambit+Rayke again for max mb damage, if RUN has super revitalizer can repeat this process and try to kill it off before bolster ends.
 Asura.Thorva
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By Asura.Thorva 2016-10-17 13:50:59  
Depending on the people you have in your group, if you have seriously geared melee, I would suggest going that route.

We ran drk and blu dd, 2 tanks (one pld for the adds and one rune for the nm itself) the rune couldn't hold hate, so you might just swap for another DD. Super buff the dd's, double brd, double cor, double geo, shift parties around get a whm or 2 back in the melee pt. Pop and let the DD go haywire.
Have the pt rotated lucid wings for the DD so they can just spam ws. We got caught dealing with 3 invincible with only 2 melee DD in a pt of 12 and still killed in under 6 minutes.
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 Lakshmi.Lenus
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By Lakshmi.Lenus 2016-10-17 13:51:49  
You should bolster, tabula, manafont and subtle sorcery if you haven't been doing so. Stick with wind nukes all the way through and get the run to gambit and rayke both forms, assuming they have revitilizer. Make sure the geo's reaaply hate on phase change as well so the bubbles take effect but maybe its just me.

Does your group have that terror drink? Its quite useful in the second phase for the duration it provides. To answer your last question, its hard to say but you should just let your strongest blm do the first nuke at least because magic bursts coming after the first will have reduced damage.

My thoughts, you take too many people for my tastes as I only take 6-7 people and I haven't lost this way yet so I'm unsure how well your people can manage in a smaller group to reduce the amount of health the monster has but I suggest you guys give it a shot to see a difference.

We kill it about 1-2 mins with BLM/BLM/SCH/GEO/WHM/RUN. For this we just let the run super tank kirin/kouryu and whatever adds that want to spawn with him while he applies gambit and rayke on both forms. I as the geo, do focus, acumen and malaise as my spells. The SCH should storm, regen and embrava everyone before popping. Then from here its just skillchain nuking until its dead while remembering to use terror drink on phase change.

I hope this kinda gives you an idea somewhat but I haven't done it with anything bigger than a party for a while now. So I'm sorry if it doesn't help you in the end.
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By Taffy 2016-10-17 13:59:49  
Tons of great advice here, some of it we were doing, some of it we were not. We have 2x Yagrush whm so weren't using the tonics, but will def change that this time around. Also we were Tabula, but we were not manafont/subtle sorecery so this would probably give us what's needed to push us over that edge.

Thanks all!

ps. Our Run isnt geared well enough to tank so is specifically just there to rayke/gambit and help out if we get in trouble
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2016-10-17 14:15:56  
Going to second a few comments for emphasis-

-COR buffs on BLM party, storms.
-save GEO 2hr for form change
-get rid of one PLD-roll with a PLD on main, RUN can handle pulling adds away and then gambit/rayke duties on main. Less HP for dargon.

And no worries if your first attempt took her down to 12%. There's been a lot worse.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2016-10-17 14:27:53  
Asura.Thorva said: »
Depending on the people you have in your group, if you have seriously geared melee, I would suggest going that route.

We ran drk and blu dd, 2 tanks (one pld for the adds and one rune for the nm itself) the rune couldn't hold hate, so you might just swap for another DD. Super buff the dd's, double brd, double cor, double geo, shift parties around get a whm or 2 back in the melee pt. Pop and let the DD go haywire.
Have the pt rotated lucid wings for the DD so they can just spam ws. We got caught dealing with 3 invincible with only 2 melee DD in a pt of 12 and still killed in under 6 minutes.

I'll second the TPburn method as well. Depends if a few people have some AG weapons and can pump out some serious numbers, but with the right buff support and lucid wing rotation, Kirin/Kouryu will melt. Just pop Resist Petrify tonic on second form and repeat the same butt whooping.

Sometimes he can get lucky though.
 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2016-10-17 18:50:09  
If you can work in a SMN, it will help massively. BLM damage doesn't even come close to SMN in that fight. I generally parse over 50% on that fight with my SMN.
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 Odin.Blizzy
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By Odin.Blizzy 2016-10-17 20:09:19  
as stated above work on the pre buff cycle.
1. cors need to give the blms warlocks and wizards roll.
2. schs aslo need to give windstorm 2 to the blms
3. geo Idris geo needs to do maliase and langor 2nd geo focus and accuman entrust indi haste- 2nd geo could entrust indi-int.
4. sch skillchain windows. make sure your getting the time right blm should at bare min be getting off 2-3 skillchains per burst make sure the alt sch is also nukeing. the sch that makes the skillchain should be able to get off 1 mb per personal skillchain.

5. In this day and age you need to carry a supply of meds to get rid of status effects asap. there is no excuse not to be useing food and meds when needed.

6. You can also add a brd into the ally build for schrzo and mage crack. and more haste. therody is also your friend.

7. also another tip make the most use out of temp items to help increase damage.
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By BlaTheTaru 2016-10-17 20:19:55  
Odin.Blizzy said: »
the sch that makes the skillchain should be able to get off 1 mb per personal skillchain.

Other than lag being a factor sch should be able to reliably land two burts per one of their own skill chains with only haste on. I find t4 and t3 to usually be the best dps.
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By Ruaumoko 2016-10-17 20:27:46  
Good advice abound in this thread, good to see.

It's worth mentioning that Mirror's Tonic and Steadfast Tonic stack, use them both when you engage Kouryu. Your RUN should use their 2nd 1-hour when these tonics wear to reduce Kouryu's magic accuracy, buying you 30 precious seconds. Above all make sure your mages have Barstonra and that they do not cast Aero VI with Typhoon Wing's slow effect on them, as having a high recast on those nukes is disastrous.
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2016-10-17 20:40:47  
BlaTheTaru said: »
Odin.Blizzy said: »
the sch that makes the skillchain should be able to get off 1 mb per personal skillchain.

Other than lag being a factor sch should be able to reliably land two burts per one of their own skill chains with only haste on. I find t4 and t3 to usually be the best dps.

Please, oh please don't. If you've got 4 BLMs bursting, that's plenty and probably about as many people as you can get per MB in terms of max non-resisted per volley. And nothing will kill that dps like a SCH's bursted T3 over a solid, but not decked, BLM's T6. It's just a more controlled environment.
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 Odin.Blizzy
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By Odin.Blizzy 2016-10-17 20:51:55  
Look into your blm gear sets also 2 of your blm are only doing 12% or less on the parse then you might really need to look into other options to increase the overall damage. sub the blm for a smn if geared. put a sch in the blm party if they have a good burst set so they can get the geo buffs
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By BlaTheTaru 2016-10-17 21:49:56  
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
BlaTheTaru said: »
Odin.Blizzy said: »
the sch that makes the skillchain should be able to get off 1 mb per personal skillchain.

Other than lag being a factor sch should be able to reliably land two burts per one of their own skill chains with only haste on. I find t4 and t3 to usually be the best dps.


Please, oh please don't. If you've got 4 BLMs bursting, that's plenty and probably about as many people as you can get per MB in terms of max non-resisted per volley. And nothing will kill that dps like a SCH's bursted T3 over a solid, but not decked, BLM's T6. It's just a more controlled environment.

Get better SCH.
 Asura.Ramsy
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By Asura.Ramsy 2016-10-26 13:37:51  
How many Sc was it taking you guys to kill the adds? Been having problems myself and been thinking about just killing the adds before 50%.
 Odin.Llewelyn
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2016-10-26 13:55:22  
Adds die in 1 volley if you choose to not drag them away.
 Valefor.Omnys
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By Valefor.Omnys 2016-10-26 14:13:40  
BlaTheTaru said: »
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
Please, oh please don't. If you've got 4 BLMs bursting, that's plenty and probably about as many people as you can get per MB in terms of max non-resisted per volley. And nothing will kill that dps like a SCH's bursted T3 over a solid, but not decked, BLM's T6. It's just a more controlled environment.

Get better SCH.

Get better SCH what? Equivalently geared BLMs are going to burst harder same-nukes than the SCH, especially since the SCH is no doubt saving strats for Immanence. With that many BLM, all the SCH is doing is amping up the resist wall sooner, nerfing the potency of the following nukes.
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By Taffy 2016-10-27 11:12:06  
Adds were dying in 1 volley with the exception of Seiryu who took 2. The adds during kirins form weren't the problem, it was when Koryu spawned all 4 at the same time that screwed us. We also weren't prepared well for the adds on Koryu as when RF6 took me through my Aeonic they killed him before they spawned. I thought if we killed all 4 adds during kirin he didn't spawn adds during koryu form. Almost ***my pants when he popped all 4 haha. I think with the advice here and the few pm's I got we should be good Sunday when we try again.
 Asura.Boogerballs
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By Asura.Boogerballs 2016-10-27 11:49:40  
Why are u guys even killing the adds in the 1st place? A pld can hold them easily. At most, ther shouldnt be more than 2 up at once and if there is, then you guys are lacking aome serious fire power. Also, you should rethink that set up. Im seeing 3 tanks and 2 schs. You can ditch 1 sch and 1 of those plds which would drop its hp a little. If adding hp isnt an issue, i suggest using a 2nd blm party to increase overall dmg.
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 Valefor.Omnys
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By Valefor.Omnys 2016-10-27 16:31:47  
Agree with booger. Aegis PLD can hold whatever pops. Might sub whm for erase. Genbu can put a def-down on the tank that makea physicals hurt. Aquaveil, if subpar SIRD set as well as the most convenient barspell on demand. This tank pops Kirin and supertanks the adds as they come to him.

Koryu will head for this tank on pop, MT needa to be sure flash is ready. Pld can sustain hate with other things as 50 :gets closer. RUN should be 10s recast on flash, but can sustain hate with foil as 50 approaches.

At main section pop (up ramp and to the right) tank can leave the fence, get downstairs, and back in the fence. Adds will come to him on the same path with no danger to anyone. Healer can still reach for cure help, or the spare sch can.

I do have 18% pants but there's a few movement speed options that can be used prefight.

Run/nin mt, spam ichi with fulltime fc from vallation and valiance. Save rayke/gambit for Koryu, or revitalizer.

Either some of your blms are sorely undergeared, or not properly swapping. There's nothing wrong with sitting people and cycling them in for clear. Just have that extra tank and two blm come something helpful one at a time, like geo/cor/brd/smn/whm/rdm.

Hp scaling is part of the game, for better and for worse. Sitting people might encourage them to step up their performance.

Also, that first Koryu is just important.
 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2016-10-28 10:18:50  
It's pointless to kill the adds. They just get resummoned when Kouryu uses Astral Flow anyway.
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By Taffy 2016-10-30 23:11:16  
Hi All,

Thanks for all the advice. We downed Kirin at 1 using the downstairs method tonight. Our first night since I posted. Appreciate the communities help.

P.s our sch vagina hurt from my last post so a shout out to him for not sucking tonight! <3 ;p
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By Shiloh 2017-01-13 22:17:47  
A feel good post alert. My Ls tried this fight last week(manaburn)and only got him down to 71-72%.

We retried today and lacked major accuracy(melee)and got to 51% I think. Messed some buffs. Reset 1hrs and added 2 friends(not in the ls). Didn't get tonic up quick enough but fought thru it. We now join the rest of the Kirin Dismantlers!

Thanks to all the advice I read on this thread. Thanks to Kingkitt, Giovanni and Ghostface!
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 Asura.Ladyofhonor
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By Asura.Ladyofhonor 2017-01-16 23:05:36  
Does anyone have the ACC requirement and maybe a DPS requirement for this one? Want to give it a shot but I run with a pretty melee-short group of just me and a COR generally. If we tossed in a tank we could have a config but I'd really like to have the right gearset on as it would just be THF+COR to burn it down.
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By Sidra 2017-01-16 23:19:15  
Accuracy cap is somewhere around 1900 + torpor.

In our kill which was 12 people dps was about 1500 per for 4 dps...so 6k, plus whatever the tank or anyone else added.
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By Sylph.Braden 2017-01-17 02:22:59  
Definitely way less than 1900+Torpor. My friend's THF doesn't cap hit rate with just BRD for accuracy buffs, but has a noticeably better hitrate on Kirin and Kouryu than on WoC pre-bracelets (which is about 1831 Evasion). I don't do the parsing myself and never saved the specific DPS or hitrate results so I can't be more specific.
 Asura.Psylo
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By Asura.Psylo 2017-01-17 03:20:10  
about kirin, what do you think about this setup :
PLD WHM SCH GEO
COR SMN SMN SMN

Wind Sc open then spam wind blade.

This can work on both form ?
 Sylph.Oraen
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By Sylph.Oraen 2017-01-17 03:48:40  
I'd suggest adding a RUN to the mix for Gambit and Rayke. The difference between having those and not is colossal.
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