Ketogenics
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Ketogenics
Sylph.Jeanpaul said: » She's saying they can be, depending on the source of those carbs and other factors. Here's an interesting example. Not really any certainties in the world of diet and metabolism, our bodies are full of surprises. Based on the condition, there will be different types of approaches. Hopkins, Mayo and Cleveland clinic ALL prescribe ketogenic diets for many conditions. One of the best heart surgeons in the world who I talk to on a daily basis talks about it like it is the fountain of youth. He's more excited about it than anyone else I've shown below. He is 74 years old and he looks like he's 40. He went into ketogenic lifestyle back in the early 90's and will prescribe it to anyone who isn't type1 diabetic. If you have kidney stones, protein isn't going to help. If you have a faty liver, which most people do today, getting off carbs is going to work miracles for them, and especially sugars. If you have cancer, your sugar intake goes to zero. If you are type 1 diabetic, ketogenic diet might make your blood too acidic and will kill you. If you're pre-diabetic or adult on-set typeII diabetes, a ketogenic diet can and has often reversed insulin sensitivity. Kids with severe cases of types of epilepsy who suffer 3-4 episodes a day have been documented to go years without a single episode after switching to ketogenic diets. Try telling them to just "run". Ketogenic diets are also prescribed to people with cancer, heart disease, alzheimer's, dementia, arthritis and even depression. I'm not saying its a mold that fits all cases. I'm saying if you don't have a specific malfunction in your body that will only be made acute by an increased intake of fats and protein, then there is a very high probability using ketones for energy will enhance your life. Studies have shown that carb addiction is a real phenomenon and as obstructive to human health as other substance addictions. Sugar is DIRECTLY responsible for killing more people than cancer. and indirectly for more than 40% of current chronic diseases and illnesses. Carbohydrates spike glucose levels in the blood. this leads to the pancreas producing more insulin. Years of this increased insulin supply in the blood makes one insulin resistant on a cellular level. That leads to additional levels of glucose in the blood. The body stresses through energy highs and crashes by producing more adrenaline and cortisol to get you to function. Adrenal fatigue sets in, followed by Hypothyroidism. The brain craves endorphins and seeks them out through more sugar/carbs. Its a deadly cycle. YouTube Video Placeholder News report on Keto vs Cancer.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxhNMzIzs3M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0i-AdCm-Mg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjPgK7gWJeM ->Minute 30 on keto vs plant based diets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7mjm9LyW-c minute 37 highlights and most important notes edit: a friend's father who was a oncologist was diagnosed with lung cancer back in 2003 and was told he had 6-10 months to live. He ate nothing but coconuts, salmon and ashwagandha for 3 months and his tumors dissolved and was coughed out as phlegm and blood. he is now 71 years old and doesn't eat anything that tastes sweet, not even artificial sweeteners. As an oncologist he knew exactly what to do to starve the cancer. Never did any chemo.
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If you watch one video about ketosis, sugar, cancer, watch this.
YouTube Video Placeholder I generally agree with a lot of what you're saying, like how (refined) sugar is a big dietary problem. What I am saying is that not even the most effective diets, even if strictly adhered to, will ensure the same results.
Just a side note, though, high carbohydrate intake does not cause diabetes. This is one of the things Seha was probably inkling at, and what the link in my last post brought up. Here's some more on that.
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Sorry if its been mentioned, but I'm at work atm and am intrested but no time to read the whole thread. But what does a ketogenic diet say about sugar?
edit: brainfart...its no sugar i suppose. I kind of find not eating sugar easy, it just grows on you. My partner and I pay close attention to what we eat (maybe to much) I cant stand the taste of sugar anymore (sure I bake cookies and stuff but i never eat them). It always leaves a weird aftertaste in my mouth and it gets me so thirsty. Stay under 50g of carbs per day and you should stay in keto. Different body types have different upper limits though.
Blazed1979 said: » I'll echo what Jeanpaul said: a lot of diets can work, and it's (i.e. the modern pandemics of diabetes and co) more of a lifestyle problem rather than solely one particular type of nutrient that needs to be eliminated from the diet/one single diet that one needs to stick to. Refined carbs, saturated fatty acids, junk food in general etc all need to be consumed very sparingly, better eliminated from one's regular diet. Humans display a good degree of..idiosyncracy when it comes to diet and metabolism that it's difficult to claim that one type of diet is the ultimate diet (as Robert Atkins, Michael Greger, T.Colin Campbell of the China study etc all do). Different ethnic groups who survive on unconventional diets (Eskimo) or a mostly-carbs diet (Japan) serve as exceptions to anyone's claim for the supremacy of his diet, and are always interesting to look at. In addition, it's not just the macro-nutrients that matter, the type of food is also very important. Whole plant-based foods that are rich in anti-oxidants and fiber are invaluable, but our modern diets seldom include them. We also need to consume less calories, and fast from time to time.
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Dude, good for you! That is amazing! The resting heart rate thing is incredible. According to my Fitbit (which I know isn't super accurate) at the start of the diet my resting HR was 82. After 3 months of keto diet and no other life style change, my resting was down to 57. I do work out regularly, but that is a huge decrease. Keto is awesome!
I was on Keto for about 3 months. I lost 30lbs and felt fantastic during it. I've been able to keep 20 of those pounds off since stopping, but I carried over a lot of the more healthy habits of the diet into my everyday life. Keto is awesome for sure, but I never got over the cravings. Fruit was the biggest thing I craved, not sugar. I tried supplementing as much nutrients from fruit as I could, but I'd still just want some pineapple or a nice big smoothie (homemade, not those sugar concoctions from Jamba Juice...) I was doing very strict the first 2 months. 15 total carbs a day max. The 3rd month I switch to 20 net carbs a day and I did much better with cravings. I've been thinking of going back on Keto for the winter. I do miss my coconut oil/grass fed organic butter/MCT oil coffee breakfast lol. For anybody interested, Joe Rogan had a guy on that wrote a book about Ketosis and really breaks down what it is, what it isn't, and how it works. Worth a listen YouTube Video Placeholder Kodaijin said: » I prefer the "run every day and eat whatever you want" diet. Only works to a certain extent. I'm still a bit overweight myself so I'm burning more calories than someone in a healthy normal range. Edit: Sorry. My brain stroked off for a minute. An hour of running for me is around 800 kcal. Not 500. In reference to whatever you want, this is what 500 kcal looks like in terms of restaurant junkfood:  It's also (approximately) 4 restaurant-sized sauced chicken wings. So "whatever you want because you went running" is a bit misleading. As far as some of the facts Blazed has given about Keto, they're a bit pseudo-sciency, especially the parts related to cancer. It is true that keto can be beneficial for very specific medical conditions. But as far as weight loss, calories in, calories out. It's that simple. Edit 1: for clarity. Edit 2: These are actually underestimates on these foods calories in the case of the Big Mac (563 kcal) and eyeballing that bagel and cream cheese I can tell you it's either reduced fat cream cheese or an underestimate, because the plain bagel from Dunkin Donuts is 350 kcal on its own. How can you call that stuff restaurant <.<
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Valefor.Sehachan said: » How can you call that stuff restaurant <.< Because that's what millions of people eat on a day to day basis in the US. Sorry, should I say "fast food" instead of "restaurant?" :p Good NPR Article on the Keto-and-Cancer discussion from earlier this year.
Quote: The idea of fighting cancer by changing what patients eat has obvious appeal, but it also raises worries. "I get a little scared when people start talking about diet for cancer since you can quickly get into pseudoscience here," Mayo's Thompson counters. He points out that data supporting the ketogenic diet in cancer are limited — and further that rigorous dietary studies are incredibly hard to pull off. "The drug companies aren't going to fund these types of trials," he says. "They can't make money marketing a diet." Vander Heiden is also wary of many dietary claims, in part because of biased expectations. "It seems that people have often decided what diet they think is best before they do a study," he says. "There's a difference between setting out to prove something is a good therapy and asking what therapy is best." His own work has shown that certain dietary interventions can be more effective than drugs at treating cancer in mice, but he says panacean claims about the ketogenic diet specifically are a bit premature. "I think it's a really interesting hypothesis that should continue to be tested, but to claim that cancer is all metabolic or all genetic is probably incorrect," he says. "Usually in science when you have something as complex as cancer, ascribing it to one particular cause is often going too far." Even Seyfried acknowledges, despite his zeal for treating cancer by tinkering with calories, that in all likelihood diet and nutrient-based cancer treatments will serve as adjuncts to existing therapies. But what would be wrong with that? "We're slowing the tumor down and making it extremely vulnerable to lower, less-toxic doses of available drugs," he says, "When people are locked into an ideology created by a dogma they tend not to focus on rational alternatives." Ramyrez said: » Kodaijin said: » I prefer the "run every day and eat whatever you want" diet. Only works to a certain extent. I was gunna say something like this to that comment. You would have to run a whole lot burn off the excess calories from a lot of fatty meals. I do however prefer a "Watch what you eat and exercise diet" On the note of Keto, can't your brain only function to a certain extent using ketones as energy? Some brain cells can only burn glucose. eliroo said: » On the note of Keto, can't your brain only function to a certain extent using ketones as energy? Some brain cells can only burn glucose. Your body can produce glucose without carbs. Quote: New Glucose Synthesis When the body produces glucose from something other than carbohydrates, the process is called gluconeogenesis. Most gluconeogenesis occurs in the liver, but a small amount also takes place in the kidneys and small intestine. Like carbs, fats and proteins are digested into smaller units. Glycerol from fats and amino acids from proteins may be used to make glucose. All amino acids except leucine and lysine can enter the gluconeogenesis pathway, but glutamine is the only one used in the kidneys and small intestine, according to Medical Biochemistry Page. Lactate is another substance used to synthesize new glucose. The boost in energy metabolism during intense exercise results in the production of lactate. Some of it travels through the bloodstream to the liver, where it's converted into glucose. Edit: quoted from livestrong.com, first concise description I could find. eliroo said: » You would have to run a whole lot burn off the excess calories from a lot of
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Ramyrez said: » eliroo said: » You would have to run a whole lot burn off the excess calories from a lot of eliroo said: » On the note of Keto, can't your brain only function to a certain extent using ketones as energy? Some brain cells can only burn glucose.
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Ragnarok.Zeig said: » Yeah, people underestimate how calorie-dense that serving of sweets or that shake can be. I forget where I first heard the adage, but I have found it to be quite true: "You get fit in the gym, but you lose weight in the kitchen."
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Ramyrez said: » eliroo said: » On the note of Keto, can't your brain only function to a certain extent using ketones as energy? Some brain cells can only burn glucose. Your body can produce glucose without carbs. Quote: New Glucose Synthesis When the body produces glucose from something other than carbohydrates, the process is called gluconeogenesis. Most gluconeogenesis occurs in the liver, but a small amount also takes place in the kidneys and small intestine. Like carbs, fats and proteins are digested into smaller units. Glycerol from fats and amino acids from proteins may be used to make glucose. All amino acids except leucine and lysine can enter the gluconeogenesis pathway, but glutamine is the only one used in the kidneys and small intestine, according to Medical Biochemistry Page. Lactate is another substance used to synthesize new glucose. The boost in energy metabolism during intense exercise results in the production of lactate. Some of it travels through the bloodstream to the liver, where it's converted into glucose. Edit: quoted from livestrong.com, first concise description I could find. eliroo said: » You would have to run a whole lot burn off the excess calories from a lot of Yea I think I read an article about that a bit after I asked, really intriguing that our body works like. Also thanks for correcting me, I was actually using fatty to represent any meals that is high calories or high fat. Ragnarok.Zeig said: » Yeah, people underestimate how calorie-dense that serving of sweets or that shake can be. Its really sad actually, I've recently started to watch what I eat by limiting my calories and just how many calories are in something simple like flavored marshmallows is really sad :( The Ketogen diet was something I looked at but I'm probably going to try and diet and exercise without effecting my enjoyment of food too much. eliroo said: » Also thanks for correcting me, I was actually using fatty to represent any meals that is high calories or high fat. I kind of figured, but I wanted to be clear because...ugh. These conversations can get really pedantic, but at the same time you have to be careful with your wording because in context of dieting/nutrition some words need be used solely by their strict definitions and "fatty" is definitely one of them given the misinformation/misunderstanding of the role of fats in the nutrition by everyone for the past sixty years, including the medical community. Blazed1979 said: » Turns out I had what is known as adrenal fatigue I knew this was setting off my pseudoscience nonsense detector but couldn't remember the exact context. From the Mayo Clinic. Quote: Adrenal fatigue is a term applied to a collection of nonspecific symptoms, such as body aches, fatigue, nervousness, sleep disturbances and digestive problems. The term often shows up in popular health books and on alternative medicine websites, but it isn't an accepted medical diagnosis. Your adrenal glands produce a variety of hormones that are essential to life. The medical term adrenal insufficiency (Addison's disease) refers to inadequate production of one or more of these hormones as a result of an underlying disease. Signs and symptoms of adrenal insufficiency may include: •Fatigue •Body aches •Unexplained weight loss •Low blood pressure •Lightheadedness •Loss of body hair •Skin discoloration (hyperpigmentation) Adrenal insufficiency can be diagnosed by blood tests and special stimulation tests that show inadequate levels of adrenal hormones. Proponents of the adrenal fatigue diagnosis claim this is a mild form of adrenal insufficiency caused by chronic stress. The unproven theory behind adrenal fatigue is that your adrenal glands are unable to keep pace with the demands of perpetual fight-or-flight arousal. As a result, they can't produce quite enough of the hormones you need to feel good. Existing blood tests, according to this theory, aren't sensitive enough to detect such a small decline in adrenal function — but your body is. It's frustrating to have persistent symptoms your doctor can't readily explain. But accepting a medically unrecognized diagnosis from an unqualified practitioner could be worse. Unproven remedies for so-called adrenal fatigue may leave you feeling sicker, while the real cause — such as depression or fibromyalgia — continues to take its toll. |
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