Merit Choice Abilities?

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Samurai » Merit Choice Abilities?
Merit Choice Abilities?
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 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-05-13 10:07:17  
Shiva.Flionheart said:
His/her Tomoe set:



Now I don't pretend to know anything about SAM, but isn't that enough acc to make Iki pretty much useless?
That's enough... if all you fight is birds. I on the other hand, rarely merit, so I have to fight things with fairly variable acc.
 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-05-13 10:07:49  
Shiva.Eggbert said:
If you are missing a lot on HNMs then accuracy food is going to help your damage a lot more meat.
You know there's also an acc bonus attached to zanshin right?
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-13 10:08:04  
He'd still have to get two zanshin procs. 4 hits, one being zanshined is 97.4 tp. Looking at a 5hit either way.
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-13 10:08:43  
Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
Shiva.Eggbert said:
If you are missing a lot on HNMs then accuracy food is going to help your damage a lot more meat.
You know there's also an acc bonus attached to zanshin right?

Your main dmg shouldn't come from the assumption that you're going to miss.
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-05-13 10:09:10  
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
He'd still have to get two zanshin procs. 4 hits, one being zanshined is 97.4 tp. Looking at a 5hit either way.
What is this in reference too, polearm?
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-13 10:10:24  
yup
 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-05-13 10:10:31  
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
Shiva.Eggbert said:
If you are missing a lot on HNMs then accuracy food is going to help your damage a lot more meat.
You know there's also an acc bonus attached to zanshin right?

Your main dmg shouldn't come from the assumption that you're going to miss.
That doesn't make any sense, your dmg comes from assuming that the game will do the math exactly how you expect it to, that is all. You will always miss more or less, if you can understand and work the numbers you can get better results.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-13 10:11:31  
The shittier your sam, the better zanshin is
 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-05-13 10:12:43  
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
yup
Show me the math on this, don't see how you're getting it. Assuming 54 STP or what?
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-13 10:14:13  
Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Ikishoten sucks, really. w/ 5/5 merits, you get 15 extra tp.

Let's say we have our standard 6hit of 16.7tp/swing.

A miss /zanshin nets you 15 extra tp, 31.7 total

16.7 16.7 16.7 16.7 16.7 16.7 = 100.2 tp

Now let's replace a connected hit w/ a zanshin hit

16.7 16.7 16.7 31.7 16.7 = 98.5 tp

Guess what, you still need that 6th hit to ws. It hasn't done anything for you.

You'd literally have to have shitty enough acc to get two zanshins on one trip to 100 tp and have both of those zanshin procs land for it to make a difference.

And then you have polearm sam, 15 tp isn't going to drop you from a 5hit to a 4hit when you're already getting 20tp/hit and would need 25/hit to get a 4 hit.
Wow, Tiger, DEAD WRONG. Iki TP bonus is affected by store tp. So guess what, 11.5 12 = 34.3 16.7 * 4 = 101.1.

And for the record, polearm can do it but you need the 5th merit in it which I'm personally iffy on unless you use polearm a lot.
You should edit wiki then to the correct information. Since I don't have the piece of ***JA, I can only go off what's given
Quote:
If someone's weapon gave 18% TP per hit, and swung on their Zanshin hit, they would receive (Capped Merits) 33% TP.
33-18 = 15.

Wiki has been wrong before and it'll be wrong again, but since I don't have the job trait, and you do, test it yourself and edit in the correct info. Either way, that example was w/ 5 merits, didn't you say you only had 3? You'd still need 2 zanshin procs.

Edit: nvm was the other sam who only had 3, how many do you have? Also, it'll be easier to do the math w/ the correct information, so I need some verification.
 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-05-13 10:14:37  
And actually, zanshin is best at a kind of mid grade, it sucks when the sam sucks too :)
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-05-13 10:16:55  
Can you post your exact merits please Taro.
 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-05-13 10:17:40  
No, I said you need 4 merits, it's my very first post on here. I consider 3 iki merits a TOTAL waste of merits.

I swear one of the wikis got updated when the info came out, I don't use english wiki's at all so I don't bother editing them or anything, you can go ahead if you want though, lol. And this whole thing has come up on this site before in the same forums so I'd expect you to know about it because well... yeah. And no need to test, I use it, it works, the JP wiki agrees with me as well.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-13 10:18:25  
Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
And actually, zanshin is best at a kind of mid grade, it sucks when the sam sucks too :)
Not really. Shitty sam will get more zanshin procs than mid grade sam. At lower accuracy, the accuracy bonus is worth more to you than it is at mid or higher accuracy. You'd get the highest % increase from zanshin at 20% hirate because

A) You'd get a higher percentage of zanshin procs than a sam w/ anything higher than 20% hitrate

B) The acc bonus at 20% hitrate is worth a lot more than 35 acc at 70% hitrate, 80% hirate, ect.
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-05-13 10:19:06  
Cat 2? I just have 5 overwhelm, 4 iki atm. I was gonna get blade bash but since the thing I figure I'd mainly would use it for is nyzul and I pretty much stopped doing nyzul I never bothered getting it.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-13 10:20:39  
Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
No, I said you need 4 merits, it's my very first post on here. I consider 3 iki merits a TOTAL waste of merits.

I swear one of the wikis got updated when the info came out, I don't use english wiki's at all so I don't bother editing them or anything, you can go ahead if you want though, lol. And this whole thing has come up on this site before in the same forums so I'd expect you to know about it because well... yeah. And no need to test, I use it, it works, the JP wiki agrees with me as well.
JPs also have a reputation for being shitty DDs, using things like askar head over turban, full timing osodes, and having no idea in general how to properly gear a DD. Not every JP, sure, but a good majority of the ones I've encountered. I wouldn't necessarily just take their word for it, I'd have to see some testing on it.


Aside from that though, what mobs are you fighting that you can't cap your accuracy on?
 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-05-13 10:20:41  
I guess that's when zanshin gives you the most benefit, but where zanshin itself is the best is when your acc is high enough to cap acc on a zanshin hit.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-13 10:23:18  
Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
I guess that's when zanshin gives you the most benefit, but where zanshin itself is the best is when your acc is high enough to cap acc on a zanshin hit.
Assuming wiki is right in the 35 acc bonus, you'd need 77.5% hitrate to get your consideration of the best use of zanshin. If you're at 77.5% hirate on samurai, quit the game.
 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-05-13 10:26:17  
There's really not much to test perse, you can see the results after one zanshined hit. I mean what do you want, a video capture of it? (I can't btw, this comp is slow as heck). It definitely works, I guess see if you can find anyone on your server with iki merited, but I don't really know how many there are even nowadays, especially with people like you still mocking it at every turn.

Nowadays, the only things I've been using sam on are... Odin, DI, some ZNM's (Yilbe and some tier 3's) and random campaign where I obviously don't need the iki but I can't exactly turn it off. Is nice against mnks and nins though, lol. Pretty much the top all won't cap with meat.
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-05-13 10:27:23  
So you still have capped acc on say, thf NM in dynamis xarc right? Good to know.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-13 10:29:06  
Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
Pretty much the top all won't cap with meat.
Which is why you use pizza.

Pizza at 95% hitrate is going to be better than meat and zanshin at 77.5% hitrate.
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-05-13 10:32:15  
Mathwise, are you sure? lol

And also, pizza on odin/DI is not very fun. You tend to screw with your dmg running out every 10% on Odin and even then sometimes you can get caught by people wsing and suddenly bringing his life down and bam, there goes pizza, hope you brought a bunch. And DI, well, random acheron kicks hitting me while I'm standing on his side for 1500 dmg suck.

Anyways, I have to sleep, I'll continue this in the morning, lol. Don't expect a response for at least a good 6-7 hrs.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-13 10:33:43  
Ok, so your excuse for not using pizza is availability? Oh you got me there! If you want to be cheap and use inferior food, then zanshin and iki are a good combo!
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By Yuffy 2010-05-13 10:38:40  
Why is Blade Bash useful when people nowadays are expected to have PDT and MDT sets? And if we are talking about things like ZR frogs, if you need Blade Bash, you are doing it seriously wrong. As a fellow french would say, "suck less".

As for what Tarowyn says, its totally true. When Zanshin does proc, i get 40TP back. How on earth would i get 40TP back without store TP being counted? 4/5 Ikishoten ofc.
Quote:
The shittier your sam, the better zanshin is
Blade Bash must really save your life to make it better than any amount of extra damage.

ITT: people playing a job they dont even understand what it is used for.
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 Shiva.Borealis
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By Shiva.Borealis 2010-05-13 10:46:54  
I ate a urinal cake once.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-13 10:47:21  
a 5 min shik would add more damage (To your group, not you as an individual) than Iki just by giving away overflow tp. Doesn't even have to be a full 100 you give them. need 1 more hit to ws and DA proc? Doing that once every 5 mins would add more dmg than iki.

 Leviathan.Celestinia
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By Leviathan.Celestinia 2010-05-13 10:50:32  
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
a 5 min shik would add more damage (To your group, not you as an individual) than Iki just by giving away overflow tp. Doesn't even have to be a full 100 you give them. need 1 more hit to ws and DA proc? Doing that once every 5 mins would add more dmg than iki.

^ This.
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By Yuffy 2010-05-13 10:50:37  
Do you REALLY believe SAM is only used in merit parties and einherjar where there are only DDs around them? You have to think outside the box sometime.
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By Yuffy 2010-05-13 10:52:40  
Also, Shiki might end up being an overflow on the person it is used on.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-13 10:53:22  
If you're in a situation where you're the only DD, then why are you saying ***like this?
Quote:
Blade Bash must really save your life to make it better than any amount of extra damage.

Blade bash is useful in those solo/lowman situations. And, if we're talking mobs weak enough to where you won't be having any other DD's, why isn't your acc capped? w/ a 45% proc rate, when your hitrate is capped, you'll get your extra tp .05 x .45 = 2.25% of the time.
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