Nanatsusayanotachi's Potential

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Samurai » Nanatsusayanotachi's Potential
Nanatsusayanotachi's Potential
 Carbuncle.Axle
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By Carbuncle.Axle 2010-05-15 09:26:22  
Bleh, my work here is done. The OP is turning this thread into a "Haste is NOT exponentional" thread.
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-15 09:27:20  
Nobody is denying that you can get more ws'. My argument is that the ws' will be much weaker in comparison and the number of extra ws won't be enough to make it pull ahead of hagun in total damage.
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 Cerberus.Watanabie
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By Cerberus.Watanabie 2010-05-15 09:30:20  
I think OP is just trying to justify using this because it looks cool!
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 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2010-05-15 09:30:38  
@Vincentius
Just what i would expect from an Elitest, never wanting to think of the other possibility of a different setup once a particular one has been etched into their brain permenately. I never said in this thread Nanatsusaya > Hagun. Even the name of this thread is Nanatsusaya potential. I never said throw out hagun out the window, and what's wrong with trying to bring some innovation to a game that only runs in one way. I only wanted to add some flavor to the game not completely revamp it.
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-15 09:34:38  
Siren.Itachi said:
@Vincentius
I never said in this thread Nanatsusaya > Hagun.
Quote:
Sure the weapon is hard to attain but with the right setup it can surpass the almighty hagun

Yes you did, in the first post.
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 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2010-05-15 09:35:36  
Cerberus.Watanabie said:
I think OP is just trying to justify using this because it looks cool!
This is part of the truth! It's like my friend Vincentius said, I want to see something different and I'm more than happy to debate/question the possibilities in a civilized manner. Not once have I raged @ anyone defending the hagun.
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 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2010-05-15 09:36:49  
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Siren.Itachi said:
@Vincentius I never said in this thread Nanatsusaya > Hagun.
Quote:
Sure the weapon is hard to attain but with the right setup it can surpass the almighty hagun
Yes you did, in the first post.
HAH nice find! I had forgotten about that and I'll slap myself for letting my bias against hagun peer through.
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 Cerberus.Watanabie
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By Cerberus.Watanabie 2010-05-15 09:38:41  
I won't throw Nanatsuckaballsack out the window, but i won't use it over hagun. My mithra mannequin would be Sex+1 if she sported this GKT though.
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 Shiva.Darkshade
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By Shiva.Darkshade 2010-05-15 09:42:49  
OP has a secret stash of 20+ Nanatsusayzanshin's and wants to get rid of them for SERIOUS CASH. 10/10
 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2010-05-15 09:47:07  
Shiva.Darkshade said:
OP has a secret stash of 20 Nanatsusayzanshin's and wants to get rid of them for SERIOUS CASH. 10/10
Oh snap my motives have been discovered!

But in all seriousness after all this debate I will bow down to hagun's versatility as someone mentioned earlier, which adds to the effectiveness of sam.

Therefor what i'm saying to all you crazy ppls out there who didn't understand that is.... IM SAYING HAGUNS > NANANANANANANANA..BATMAN!(Nanatsusaya).
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 Asura.Daleterrence
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By Asura.Daleterrence 2010-05-15 11:24:59  
Anyone else noticed Itachi's posts are all rated up and anyone who disagrees automatically gets -1? lol

Edit: Fixed that ***.
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 Cerberus.Watanabie
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By Cerberus.Watanabie 2010-05-15 11:29:21  
Asura.Daleterrence said:
Anyone else noticed Itachi's posts are all rated up and anyone who disagrees automatically gets -1? lol Edit: Fixed that ***.
Lol
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 Lakshmi.Ezekryu
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By Lakshmi.Ezekryu 2010-05-15 12:03:19  
Siren.Itachi said:
@Vincentius
Just what i would expect from an Elitest, never wanting to think of the other possibility of a different setup once a particular one has been etched into their brain permenately. I never said in this thread Nanatsusaya > Hagun. Even the name of this thread is Nanatsusaya potential. I never said throw out hagun out the window, and what's wrong with trying to bring some innovation to a game that only runs in one way. I only wanted to add some flavor to the game not completely revamp it.

This game is numbers. Something is always more optimal or inferior based on math. You should have known as soon as you saw the stats on Nanatsu that it was going to be a shitty GKT.
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 Sylph.Beelshamen
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By Sylph.Beelshamen 2010-05-15 12:24:41  
Lakshmi.Ezekryu said:
Siren.Itachi said:
@Vincentius
Just what i would expect from an Elitest, never wanting to think of the other possibility of a different setup once a particular one has been etched into their brain permenately. I never said in this thread Nanatsusaya > Hagun. Even the name of this thread is Nanatsusaya potential. I never said throw out hagun out the window, and what's wrong with trying to bring some innovation to a game that only runs in one way. I only wanted to add some flavor to the game not completely revamp it.

This game is numbers. Something is always more optimal or inferior based on math. You should have known as soon as you saw the stats on Nanatsu that it was going to be a shitty GKT.

Honestly, take your head out of your own ***. It's far from being a shitty GKT. Its 100% zanshin proc and good stats make it anything but a shitty GKT. Is it the best? Hell no, but it sure as hell shouldn't be labelled as shitty.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Aevin
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By Quetzalcoatl.Aevin 2010-05-15 12:26:00  
speaking of numbers some of the formulas the community has come up with are incredibly bazaar. I'm not saying they are wrong but what is up with SE creating formulas for dmg that require that much math.

here is what my formula for dmg looks like in a game I designed dmg = (atk - def). What is going through there heads if every time you take a swing it does 3 pages of complex algebra.

 Lakshmi.Ezekryu
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By Lakshmi.Ezekryu 2010-05-15 12:27:12  
Nanatsu serves no purpose *at all*. Nor is it a commonly found GKT. In all situations Hagun, Onimaru, or Rindomaru are all better.
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 Leviathan.Willoflame
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By Leviathan.Willoflame 2010-05-15 12:33:32  
I'd use nana over onimaru and rindo (depending on augments & current gear). No, it's not shitty. It's the only GKT with 100% zanshin proc rate. It has +7STR/+7DEX. Far from shitty.
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 Lakshmi.Ezekryu
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By Lakshmi.Ezekryu 2010-05-15 12:40:39  
I guess I should have phrased myself better. Nana has no purpose at all when you have access to Hagun, Onimaru, and Rindo. For normal TP purposes Hagun is superior, for 300% TP, Onimaru is superior. For a supposed 5-hit build Rindomaru is still better depending on augments.

Add to the fact that all three of the forementioned GKT are *much* easier to obtain due to the fact that Nanatsu is a Pandemonium Warden drop and I'm sure it'll be no a brainer.
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 Siren.Cyprian
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By Siren.Cyprian 2010-05-15 13:16:10  
Assuming you have accuracy cap at 95%, and the 100% Zanshin proc also caps at 95%, that would give you about 99.5% accuracy(kinda). (I think). While I think its a neat GK, the most this thing will give you without giving up other merits is 4.5% accuracy, which I'm nearly certain activates on WSs. So it'd decrease maximum damage but should give more consistent results.
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 Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-05-15 17:02:03  
Zanshin does NOT give you a hit rate over 95%

If you have capped accuracy and swing 2000 times, you miss 100 times.

Zanshin will proc on 45 of those misses. As you are capped on accuracy the extra acc does nothing. So of those 45 swings you miss 2.

So in total you miss 102/2045 = 4.987% of the time (which is 5% if you make the sample large enough).

So your overall hit rate is 95% no matter what.

The only time Zanshin does help your TP gain is when your accuracy is uncapped and/or you have Ishikoten merits.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-15 17:06:27  
Arg, I think they're looking at it in terms of your orig attack, not parsed % hitrate.

To go a round w/ a zanshin proc and not walk away w/ a hit.

5% chance to miss x2

.05 x .05 = .25% chance that you will walk away from the attack round w/ no tp

Where as, without zanshin, your chance to talk away w/o a landed hit is 5%
 Quetzalcoatl.Aevin
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By Quetzalcoatl.Aevin 2010-05-15 17:12:55  
so in nana's case with 95% acc your acc would actually be 99.75% am I reading the math right?
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-05-15 17:14:05  
If you count it based on your number of attack rounds, yes, if you base it on your number of swings, no. Your parsed hitrate will still not exceed 95%.

Technically, it's not, but different people will perceive it different ways.
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 Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-05-15 17:21:06  
I was looking at it from the point of view of the parsered hit rate.

But yes if you look from the number of attack rounds that lead to TP then it does help, which I didn't think about.
 Sylph.Staleyx
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By Sylph.Staleyx 2010-05-15 17:50:30  
Not worth it, sell it to some other mindless sam.
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 Sylph.Vestal
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By Sylph.Vestal 2010-05-15 18:09:46  
why do lvl 37 sams make posts about PW GK's, then *** when lvl 75 sams give their opinion?
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 Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-05-15 18:13:00  
Sylph.Vestal said:
why do lvl 37 sams make posts about PW GK's, then *** when lvl 75 sams give their opinion?

Ah the age old view that you can't know ***about a job unless you have leveled it to 75.
 Sylph.Vestal
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By Sylph.Vestal 2010-05-15 18:15:43  
not really, but why do they care so much is my question>? it just seems like alot of posts start as a friendly question, then ends up in arguments. if people dont want answers why do they ask the question in the first place?


and im not saying that you must level a job to 75 to know anything about the jobs potential at 75. but i am saying that if you dont have the gear and job to match what your saying, while others do have the gear and jobs to do what they are saying..... how can you argue?


*edit, for the record, i love that gk, and if i did level sam and got my hands on one i wouldnt care if it lost by .3% or .02%
were talking fractions of a % in most likely, a meripo.... i mean all that has to hapen is one douche to have to afk for 2 minutes and you just lost more dmg than that anyway
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