Budget Penta

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Samurai » Budget Penta
Budget Penta
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 Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-05-16 05:41:05  
Bahamut.Aiyana said:
Quote:
Attack can be capped, and its pretty easy to do so on merit(ish) level mobs with just 1-2 attack buffs and Dia 2 or 3.
I don't see att being possible to cap on anything but birds with berserk up. What about non-birds, or limbus/einherjar mobs without att buffs? Situational.
Kotes seem useful for more situations, but having both didn't hurt. Micromanagement FTW!

All mobs around 80-85 will have similar (although maybe slightly higher) defence to birds, so if you can do it on birds then you can probably do it on other merit mobs and limbus stuff. Especially when you consider you will have 40 attack from pizza which you don't get to use at birds.

Einherjar is a bit harder to say due to the odd mobs that pop up in there.
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2010-05-22 11:38:06  
I have 75DRG so SAM Polearm for me is mostly for screwing around. Would Enkidu's Mittens be acceptable for Penta Thrust or would Okotes 20 attack still be much better?

I wouldnt mind selling Okotes for some Alkies or a Flame Ring for my Gkatana Build.


Its not too bad
 Seraph.Rafik
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By Seraph.Rafik 2010-05-22 11:44:54  
It all depends on what food you are eating and what songs you are getting and what your accuracy is.

 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2010-05-22 12:07:32  
I try to optimize for 95% Accuracy(Eating Crab Sushi) Most standard Parties I'm getting double March and Chaos/Cor Rolls that current build should land me at capped acc for Penta. Close to cap With/Without Hasso

(8 Polearm Merits Also)
 Valefor.Ryukuro
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By Valefor.Ryukuro 2010-05-22 12:26:21  
My gear is far from perfect, in fact its quite shabby at the moment (lack of gil, no salvage group etc) but with 8/8 Pole Merits and 5/5 Overwhelm i do just fine. Alot of Polearm SAMs will tell you to use sushi or pizza but with crappier gear (like mine and yours), tonosama riceball setup is a much more viable option. If your fully decked out with Usukane, cuch mantle, BT etc etc then sure using other food/setups is great, but even then, a riceball build would benefit those ppl even more than you or I.

This is what i use at the moment, out parses full Usukane, Cuch Mantle, Gondo/Tomoe Polearm SAMs that use other builds (yes Vegetto, not eyeballing, actual parses, no i don't have the data, my friend Neokenesis parses for me.)

TP SET:


PENTA SET:


When I only have one BRD or one COR in PT i will Penta in Byakko's, if I have 2 BRD or BRD+COR will Penta in Shura Haidate.

If you can manage to get all 3 riceball pieces this is a very viable and damaging build, especially with 8/8 pole merits. People will try tell you that the extra attack doesn't make muc difference but I will tell you as many others would that for Penta, it does =)

 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-22 12:40:24  
If that's outparsing Usu SAMs then either they're *** terrible or you're getting the wrong buffs. Didn't bother to check your WS accuracy but your TP hitrate is around 75% with riceballs, to say nothing of the haste you're sacrificing.
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 Valefor.Ryukuro
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By Valefor.Ryukuro 2010-05-22 13:45:02  
Well, would you rather 3% Haste or 50 Attack and 1% DA? (feet). Usu SAMs arent horrible, this set/food just doesnt more dmg in the long run, parsed it vs many many SAMs.... im not full of ***...... I have 5 hit build so the sacrifice in haste doesnt really matter when you are getting MIN,MAD/CHAOS,HUNTERS and MIN,MARCH and HASTE(Spell). WS accuracy, well last PT i did with 2 BRD my average Penta was 1489, highest 2602, lowest 893. That extra haste isn't going to amount to ***compared to the extra attack and higher WS numbers. Say what you like but I know it works well, Have only ever been outparsed by a much better geared SAM using riceballs himself.
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-05-22 13:47:14  
Well if your acc is as low as my esteemed colleague attests, it would be better to use crab sushi + Fuma/blahblahblah overall. Less epeen but more consistency.

Get your bards to stop singing Mad and sing 2x March 2x Min.
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-05-22 13:50:11  
Quote:
Well, would you rather 3% Haste or 50 Attack and 1% DA? (feet). Usu SAMs arent horrible, this set/food just doesnt more dmg in the long run, parsed it vs many many SAMs.... im not full of ***...... I have 5 hit build so the sacrifice in haste doesnt really matter when you are getting MIN,MAD/CHAOS,HUNTERS and MIN,MARCH and HASTE(Spell). WS accuracy, well last PT i did with 2 BRD my average Penta was 1489, highest 2602, lowest 893. That extra haste isn't going to amount to ***compared to the extra attack and higher WS numbers. Say what you like but I know it works well, Have only ever been outparsed by a much better geared SAM using riceballs himself.
WTF IS THIS ***

You want to know why the Usu SAMs got outparsed (if they got outparsed)? You have buffs up that benefit you but not them. Also lolwat at Min/March. While you're hurting from not getting that second March like you should be, it's hurting them even more since they'd actually have decent haste in gear.
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 Titan.Fekye
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By Titan.Fekye 2010-05-22 15:37:44  
It's a proven fact that more WS = Better. Period.

Either way, I wouldn't use a riceball set up unless I was popping Shogun only (:\ never on birds) and had 95% acc on the mobs w/o food (See Zerg hi2uFeint) having said that...

These are my Polearm/penta sets, respectively.

TP


WS


See the notes on my Current Penta set.

(Food - Crab Sushi (Birds) Marinara Pizza +1 (everything else) 5hit w/o Usukane is hard to maintain and rely too much on a chance)

:/ No hard feelings though, just do the math... If the acc cap is 95% and penta is 5 hits, however your acc isn't 95% it's 69% so .69 x .69 x .69 x .69 x .69... enjoy your 22% chance of hitting all 5 hits of penta, while mine is sitting at 77%. So all that double attack you're getting is there to REPLACE hits you're already missing, Which is why you get acc buffs... that arn't helping anyone but you.

I find it quite difficult to believe you do even decent damage w/o Acc buffs, Which in a party with Usu Sam is useless for them vs detrimental to you.

Mind you Ryukuro, I'm not trying to upset you or playing the "Elitist" card I'm just saying try getting March x2 Min x2(or Chaos/Cor) then see how good you really are. You'll be quite surprised.
 Fairy.Ghaleon
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By Fairy.Ghaleon 2010-05-22 15:58:22  
dood Fekye....thats fking horrible bro lol.

i have no usukane and i don't polearm w/o 5hit 20tp/hit (this is the real reason polearm has advantage over gkt, other than being able to hit incredibly high numbers during zergs with proper gear/buffs.)

rose strap, rajas, ecphoria, brutal earring and hachiman gloves will give you a perfect 5hit for pole sam. (edit- and capped merits)

you can also do what i call a ghetto 5hit,if you dont have rose strap but would require you to keep rajas in your penta set. basically you only get 19.5tp/hit but you make up for it by getting 23tp penta thrust return lol. but as you said in your post above GL getting all 5hits out of penta even with capped accuracy.

and if you want to argue that losing 3haste from dusk gloves will hurt you more than getting a 15% increase in the number of Penta Thrust you do, well lemme just quote you for a min.


Quote:
It's a proven fact that more WS = Better. Period.


 Titan.Fekye
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By Titan.Fekye 2010-05-22 16:25:19  
Quote:
dood Fekye....thats fking horrible bro lol.

i have no usukane and i don't polearm w/o 5hit 20tp/hit (this is the real reason polearm has advantage over gkt, other than being able to hit incredibly high numbers during zergs with proper gear/buffs.)

rose strap, rajas, ecphoria, brutal earring and hachiman gloves will give you a perfect 5hit for pole sam. (edit- and capped merits)

you can also do what i call a ghetto 5hit,if you dont have rose strap but would require you to keep rajas in your penta set. basically you only get 19.5tp/hit but you make up for it by getting 23tp penta thrust return lol. but as you said in your post above GL getting all 5hits out of penta even with capped accuracy.

and if you want to argue that losing 3haste from dusk gloves will hurt you more than getting a 15% increase in the number of Penta Thrust you do, well lemme just quote you for a min.

That's the thing I know I "CAN" have a 5hit. I just don't have rose strap and I have no desire to do Campaign for a month to get one. (Allied ribbon wat)
The ghetto 5 hit is far from appealing and relies too much on chance.
So I don't think this is horrible at all....

EDIT - after running the numbers on the ghetto 5hit I would have to land all 5 hits from penta to get enough TP for a 5hit. Which would happen 23% of the time, that isn't substantial enough to justify doing it. (Did not give consideration for Double attack OR Conserve TP which would help sway that 23% up a small amount)

As for 5hit being THE reason for using polearm, that's shenanigans. It's the fact that Attack has such a huge impact on penta which with the right gear (see Acc and Atk) simply does more damage than Gekko on about 95% of the mobs in the game. 5hit (if you can do it) is just icing on the cake.
 Asura.Calatilla
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By Asura.Calatilla 2010-05-22 16:29:29  


This is my current penta set, not the best I know, but i dont use it for anything other than having fun with.

Would like to improve it with some O.kotes but Mee Deggi refuses to drop them for me :(
 Alexander.Temaruma
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By Alexander.Temaruma 2010-05-22 17:13:21  
Valefor.Ryukuro said:
My gear is far from perfect, in fact its quite shabby at the moment (lack of gil, no salvage group etc) but with 8/8 Pole Merits and 5/5 Overwhelm i do just fine. Alot of Polearm SAMs will tell you to use sushi or pizza but with crappier gear (like mine and yours), tonosama riceball setup is a much more viable option. If your fully decked out with Usukane, cuch mantle, BT etc etc then sure using other food/setups is great, but even then, a riceball build would benefit those ppl even more than you or I. This is what i use at the moment, out parses full Usukane, Cuch Mantle, Gondo/Tomoe Polearm SAMs that use other builds (yes Vegetto, not eyeballing, actual parses, no i don't have the data, my friend Neokenesis parses for me.) TP SET: PENTA SET: When I only have one BRD or one COR in PT i will Penta in Byakko's, if I have 2 BRD or BRD COR will Penta in Shura Haidate. If you can manage to get all 3 riceball pieces this is a very viable and damaging build, especially with 8/8 pole merits. People will try tell you that the extra attack doesn't make muc difference but I will tell you as many others would that for Penta, it does =)
Chivalrous Chain sams > usukane sams all day, tell your friend to quit being nice to you and actually tell you legit parse numbers
 Fairy.Ghaleon
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By Fairy.Ghaleon 2010-05-22 17:46:32  
sorry quotes wont work for me for sum reason

but to Fekye, i used ghetto 5hit until i got rose strap. i did a parse a few times in meritpo and tested i had only lost my 5hit around 15% of the time. either because of feather tickle or just a shitty penta lol.
but since i had some much sTP stacked in even if penta return was 4hits = 23% 5hits being 24% (or DA) and 25 being max hit + DA

its still worth using imo. i believe hachiman hands+1(+1 stp gained) white tathlum(+2 stp) and Attila's Earring (stp+1) would make up for not having rose strap. all buyable items @ the auction house. not bad considering you dont even have great items in those slots anyways (btath wru)

trust me. its worth it lol.

 Fairy.Ghaleon
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By Fairy.Ghaleon 2010-05-22 17:51:45  
Valefor.Ryukuro said:
My gear is far from perfect, in fact its quite shabby at the moment (lack of gil, no salvage group etc) but with 8/8 Pole Merits and 5/5 Overwhelm i do just fine. Alot of Polearm SAMs will tell you to use sushi or pizza but with crappier gear (like mine and yours), tonosama riceball setup is a much more viable option. If your fully decked out with Usukane, cuch mantle, BT etc etc then sure using other food/setups is great, but even then, a riceball build would benefit those ppl even more than you or I.

This is what i use at the moment, out parses full Usukane, Cuch Mantle, Gondo/Tomoe Polearm SAMs that use other builds (yes Vegetto, not eyeballing, actual parses, no i don't have the data, my friend Neokenesis parses for me.)

TP SET:


PENTA SET:


When I only have one BRD or one COR in PT i will Penta in Byakko's, if I have 2 BRD or BRD COR will Penta in Shura Haidate.

If you can manage to get all 3 riceball pieces this is a very viable and damaging build, especially with 8/8 pole merits. People will try tell you that the extra attack doesn't make muc difference but I will tell you as many others would that for Penta, it does =)

what riceballs are you using? i can see you keeping up with a fully decked out sams weaponskill dmg, but i cant see you outparsing them vs haste and accuracy. which means u shouldnt be able to beat full usu or any non suck samurai lol.


tbh i wanted to try this build myself /drg with wyvern earring.

in fact with only 13 haste, i'd be suprised if you outparsed my non usu sam lol.
 Ramuh.Ragni
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By Ramuh.Ragni 2010-05-22 18:08:04  
With this build u dont have 5 hit and you have here 13% haste. I doubt u can outparse 5hit and 19% haste (you can look up on my penta set if u want, w/e).

Ninja Edit: Didnt notice u have 5 hit build, but still 13% haste :p
 Valefor.Ryukuro
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By Valefor.Ryukuro 2010-05-22 20:31:50  
So much hate............. criticise all you like, what i use works fine for me...... (Madrigal hurts an Usu SAM using Polearm how?) Sure March would be better and in mos cases thats what the BRD will use, Madrigal is just to help epeen ws numbers =).

My friend isn't lying to me about my parse numbers, why would he bother lol...

And to begin with i wasn't trying to show off or be "elitist" was trying to give some advice on what works for me. Sure all you guys are telling im doing it wrong and my setup isnt perfect and not as good yours blah blah blah.....and i don't really care, if i could afford better gear/obtain better gear tan I will in time, but for now this works for me fine, sure its not perfect, but every time ive been in meripo thats been parsed ive been outdone once...no need to *** you guys why *** bother, say what u like u wont piss me off/hurt my feelings i really dont care....stop trying to tell me what im doing is wrong and do what works for YOU, if u dont like the advice im giving then STFU, the dude can decide himself whats best for him dont need to go running your mouths about how wrong I am....... math this math that it dont matter, parse numbers dont lie.
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 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2010-05-22 20:35:14  
Eat sushi, Madrigal is no longer necessary. You will benefit more from March and parse a lot higher (though not relatively because the others are getting gimped by your song choice). You can now also use more Haste and have a lot more consistency during WS.

I can parse a full STR DRK setup and I'm sure I can still beat a lot of DDs out there. That doesn't mean that full STR DRK is the best way of doing things.
 Valefor.Ryukuro
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By Valefor.Ryukuro 2010-05-22 20:37:19  
Bahamut.Raenryong said:
Eat sushi, Madrigal is no longer necessary. You will benefit more from March and parse a lot higher (though not relatively because the others are getting gimped by your song choice). You can now also use more Haste and have a lot more consistency during WS.

I can parse a full STR DRK setup and I'm sure I can still beat a lot of DDs out there. That doesn't mean that full STR DRK is the best way of doing things.

Yes, March is better, i never said Madrigal > March ^^
 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-05-22 20:52:31  
But you're gimping the sams with capped accuracy by not having march, which is why you're parsing better than you should be.
 Sylph.Vincentius
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By Sylph.Vincentius 2010-05-22 21:01:18  
Valefor.Ryukuro said:
So much hate............. criticise all you like, what i use works fine for me...... (Madrigal hurts an Usu SAM using Polearm how?) Sure March would be better and in mos cases thats what the BRD will use, Madrigal is just to help epeen ws numbers =).

My friend isn't lying to me about my parse numbers, why would he bother lol...

And to begin with i wasn't trying to show off or be "elitist" was trying to give some advice on what works for me. Sure all you guys are telling im doing it wrong and my setup isnt perfect and not as good yours blah blah blah.....and i don't really care, if i could afford better gear/obtain better gear tan I will in time, but for now this works for me fine, sure its not perfect, but every time ive been in meripo thats been parsed ive been outdone once...no need to *** you guys why *** bother, say what u like u wont piss me off/hurt my feelings i really dont care....stop trying to tell me what im doing is wrong and do what works for YOU, if u dont like the advice im giving then STFU, the dude can decide himself whats best for him dont need to go running your mouths about how wrong I am....... math this math that it dont matter, parse numbers dont lie.

If you were on Sylph, I'd show you just how wrong you are.

Oh, and full Usu is not QUITE the best. Damn close, but not the best.
 Alexander.Temaruma
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By Alexander.Temaruma 2010-05-22 21:46:13  
Valefor.Ryukuro said:
So much hate............. criticise all you like, what i use works fine for me...... (Madrigal hurts an usuSAM using Polearm how?) Sure March would be better and in mos cases thats what the BRD will use, Madrigal is just to help epeen ws numbers =). My friend isn't lying to me about my parse numbers, why would he bother lol... And to begin with i wasn't trying to show off or be "elitist" was trying to give some advice on what works for me. Sure all you guys are telling im doing it wrong and my setup isnt perfect and not as good yours blah blah blah.....and i don't really care, if i could afford better gear/obtain better gear tan I will in time, but for now this works for me fine, sure its not perfect, but every time ive been in meripo thats been parsed ive been outdone once...no need to *** you guys why *** bother, say what u like u wont piss me off/hurt my feelings i really dont care....stop trying to tell me what im doing is wrong and do what works for YOU, if u dont like the advice im giving then STFU, the dude can decide himself whats best for him dont need to go running your mouths about how wrong I am....... math this math that it dont matter, parse numbers dont lie.

First:Usukane..Accuracy?
Second: lol at contradictions
 Cerberus.Kvazz
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2010-05-22 21:48:37  


My current penta-build for birds, and it serve me very well.
Easier pieces to get would be NQ feet and virtuoso or w\e over afv2 belt. (And NQ hauby I guess)
Usually avarage around 1.2k on birds.
 Alexander.Temaruma
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By Alexander.Temaruma 2010-05-22 21:52:08  
Cerberus.Kvazz said:
My current penta-build for birds, and it serve me very well. Easier pieces to get would be NQ feet and virtuoso or w\e over afv2 belt. (And NQ hauby I guess) Usually avarage around 1.2k on birds.

wow my exact set ;o cept for nq relic and virtuoso <,< like you said lol. but yeah i avg about the same 1.2k or so in meripos
 Fairy.Ghaleon
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By Fairy.Ghaleon 2010-05-23 04:55:07  
Valefor.Ryukuro said:
So much hate............. criticise all you like, what i use works fine for me...... (Madrigal hurts an Usu SAM using Polearm how?) Sure March would be better and in mos cases thats what the BRD will use, Madrigal is just to help epeen ws numbers =).

My friend isn't lying to me about my parse numbers, why would he bother lol...

And to begin with i wasn't trying to show off or be "elitist" was trying to give some advice on what works for me. Sure all you guys are telling im doing it wrong and my setup isnt perfect and not as good yours blah blah blah.....and i don't really care, if i could afford better gear/obtain better gear tan I will in time, but for now this works for me fine, sure its not perfect, but every time ive been in meripo thats been parsed ive been outdone once...no need to *** you guys why *** bother, say what u like u wont piss me off/hurt my feelings i really dont care....stop trying to tell me what im doing is wrong and do what works for YOU, if u dont like the advice im giving then STFU, the dude can decide himself whats best for him dont need to go running your mouths about how wrong I am....... math this math that it dont matter, parse numbers dont lie.

so liek, u still never answered my question >o

what riceballs do you use?

edit- also if you didnt catch on. madrigal and hunters roll wont give anything to a person with capped accuracy (95% or higher) thus = waste of a roll/song/buff which is why march is > madrigal because haste is exponential (lul)
 Valefor.Ryukuro
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By Valefor.Ryukuro 2010-05-23 06:23:01  
Alexander.Temaruma said:
Valefor.Ryukuro said:
So much hate............. criticise all you like, what i use works fine for me...... (Madrigal hurts an usuSAM using Polearm how?) Sure March would be better and in mos cases thats what the BRD will use, Madrigal is just to help epeen ws numbers =). My friend isn't lying to me about my parse numbers, why would he bother lol... And to begin with i wasn't trying to show off or be "elitist" was trying to give some advice on what works for me. Sure all you guys are telling im doing it wrong and my setup isnt perfect and not as good yours blah blah blah.....and i don't really care, if i could afford better gear/obtain better gear tan I will in time, but for now this works for me fine, sure its not perfect, but every time ive been in meripo thats been parsed ive been outdone once...no need to *** you guys why *** bother, say what u like u wont piss me off/hurt my feelings i really dont care....stop trying to tell me what im doing is wrong and do what works for YOU, if u dont like the advice im giving then STFU, the dude can decide himself whats best for him dont need to go running your mouths about how wrong I am....... math this math that it dont matter, parse numbers dont lie.

First:Usukane..Accuracy?
Second: lol at contradictions

lmao dude, really =)
 Carbuncle.Sevourn
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By Carbuncle.Sevourn 2010-05-23 06:30:03  
did anyone notice that his coslete is auged with 10 acc, 2% da?
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By Odin.Dirtyfinger 2010-05-23 06:37:52  
So that would be 10/12 ATK less on this Penta Thurst, lowering the gain of Riceballs even further.
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By Odin.Dirtyfinger 2010-05-23 07:04:44  
Ryukuro, your WS set:



Polearm Skill 256
DEX 68 + 37 (Being kind and presuming your Hume for 68 base).
ACC 34
Hasso active

373.1 acc (79% ACC)...

STR+31
ATK+22
Food+150

STR = .75atk so 31/23.25 (195.5ATK from gear & food).




Polearm Skill 256
DEX 68 + 25
ACC 66
Hasso active

396.1 acc (90.5% ACC).

STR+14
ATK+51
Food+90

155ATK from gear & food.

You gain approx 40ATK from your set from the one I just provided, and you lose a whole lot more accuracy too (would make the difference in using double march). I was being very kind on that set also, didn't include Haubergeon +1, Toreador's/Snipers+1, Bkote being the main ones. Also the Champtions Galea if it has WS DMG+2% instead of the 2STR you chose would be more beneficial to you as of course the higher the WS DMG the more that 2% works for you.



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