|
|
SAM get Archery upgrade to A- in update!!!! Return of SAM/RNG?
 Leviathan.Dubont
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-01 15:38:46
Ramuh.Sagittario said: Leviathan.Dubont said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Leviathan.Dubont said: Mercurial weapons are same level with same effect. Cor/War (or drg) with Joytoy/Martial gun. Won't do AS MUCH dmg from ws at 75 (lolsoboro) but it has the same underlying principle, WS spam at less tp. For instance, a DRK with bahamuts zaghnal spamming guillotine is going to be putting out weak numbers, whereas a soboro SAM using Namas arrow (not GK WS) can spam them for 2-3 the damage (not counting the effect of relic damage boost if it were to kick in). DRK does not have an equivolent mercurial weapon for that level, and WAR has to wait until 62 for M sword, even then the proficiency of a WAR with a GS is nothing on a SAM weilding its high grade weapon. Don't even bother trying to say DRK can use M kris lol... but drk CAN use M kris, not good in ptys but at later levels, Mkris Drk > Soboro Sam (not in ptys yet again) Also, Rng/war can do the same with a KC...so you aren't exactly going anywhere
LOL yeh because spamming dancing edge on DRK can really match Namas arrow... Zerg. Look it up.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-01 15:40:18
Siren.Clinpachi said: Leviathan.Dubont said: soboro isn't all the great after a certain point tbh so I don't consider Soboro a weapon that makes sam over powered. Also, Sam's ja are only useful for 2h DD so I wouldn't consider them over powered at all. Sam has Hagun eh? Well so does every other job in some shape or form. Martial gun? Think before you post.
Sadly no martial TP weapon even remotely compares in importance to hagun. If they did then everyone would use it at 75 just like SAM.
Personally i can't wait to see the hagun dethroned in the coming up updates because you know it'll happen lol. Martial Gun's close when you consider that Hagun is not an end-all be-all given polearm.
Ifrit.Eikechi said: soboro sucks even FOR its level lol...its such a weak dmg rating, that its not even worth it at 50, and the ONLY real melee situation I see it being used is with a Yoichi Bow..so i wouldn't call it overpowered by any means Soboro's roughly equal to Hagun in a situation where you're engaged fulltime and WSing freely. It's quite good at 50 too.
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-06-01 15:42:09
Leviathan.Dubont said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Leviathan.Dubont said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Leviathan.Dubont said: Mercurial weapons are same level with same effect. Cor/War (or drg) with Joytoy/Martial gun. Won't do AS MUCH dmg from ws at 75 (lolsoboro) but it has the same underlying principle, WS spam at less tp. For instance, a DRK with bahamuts zaghnal spamming guillotine is going to be putting out weak numbers, whereas a soboro SAM using Namas arrow (not GK WS) can spam them for 2-3 the damage (not counting the effect of relic damage boost if it were to kick in). DRK does not have an equivolent mercurial weapon for that level, and WAR has to wait until 62 for M sword, even then the proficiency of a WAR with a GS is nothing on a SAM weilding its high grade weapon. Don't even bother trying to say DRK can use M kris lol... but drk CAN use M kris, not good in ptys but at later levels, Mkris Drk > Soboro Sam (not in ptys yet again) Also, Rng/war can do the same with a KC...so you aren't exactly going anywhere LOL yeh because spamming dancing edge on DRK can really match Namas arrow... Zerg. Look it up.
LOL your really comparing a setup relying on a 2hour that can only be used in a handful of situations with the ability of a SAM to inflict huge damage over and over again with soboro/Namas.
Dude that's not quite on the same playing field...
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10387
By Siren.Enternius 2010-06-01 15:42:40
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Soboro's roughly equal to Hagun in a situation where you're engaged fulltime and WSing freely.
Whoever said it's not good at 50: hush. I was waiting for someone to say this, though I'd be willing to bet that there are situations where Soboro can beat Hagun. Not merit parties, of course, but damn near everything else barring HNMs.
 Ramuh.Haseyo
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 22442
By Ramuh.Haseyo 2010-06-01 15:42:41
Leviathan.Dubont said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Leviathan.Dubont said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Leviathan.Dubont said: Mercurial weapons are same level with same effect. Cor/War (or drg) with Joytoy/Martial gun. Won't do AS MUCH dmg from ws at 75 (lolsoboro) but it has the same underlying principle, WS spam at less tp. For instance, a DRK with bahamuts zaghnal spamming guillotine is going to be putting out weak numbers, whereas a soboro SAM using Namas arrow (not GK WS) can spam them for 2-3 the damage (not counting the effect of relic damage boost if it were to kick in). DRK does not have an equivolent mercurial weapon for that level, and WAR has to wait until 62 for M sword, even then the proficiency of a WAR with a GS is nothing on a SAM weilding its high grade weapon. Don't even bother trying to say DRK can use M kris lol... but drk CAN use M kris, not good in ptys but at later levels, Mkris Drk > Soboro Sam (not in ptys yet again) Also, Rng/war can do the same with a KC...so you aren't exactly going anywhere
LOL yeh because spamming dancing edge on DRK can really match Namas arrow... Zerg. Look it up.
Because zerging is ever-so common.
By Omicronceti 2010-06-01 15:43:15
Ramuh.Sagittario said: Ramuh.Haseyo said: In terms of power, there's nothing like it. Sure it has the same effects, but those effects Sam = ungodly strength.
Unfortunately Dubont is missing the point completely hear, I'm not trying to say that soboro is the best weapon for a SAM lol, I'm simply trying to say that it's one of the many MANY options SAM has access to, that in certain situation makes it nigh unbeatable for DD potential, and that other jobs do not have the same versatility when it comes to DD across the board.
Lol...you can't be serious. SS nigh unbeatable in DD situations? You do realize that all the worth while DD jobs (drg, war, drk etc) have options that make them "nigh unbeatable" in certain situations.
Blanket statements ftw.
Leviathan.Dubont
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-01 15:44:13
Ramuh.Sagittario said: Leviathan.Dubont said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Leviathan.Dubont said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Leviathan.Dubont said: Mercurial weapons are same level with same effect. Cor/War (or drg) with Joytoy/Martial gun. Won't do AS MUCH dmg from ws at 75 (lolsoboro) but it has the same underlying principle, WS spam at less tp. For instance, a DRK with bahamuts zaghnal spamming guillotine is going to be putting out weak numbers, whereas a soboro SAM using Namas arrow (not GK WS) can spam them for 2-3 the damage (not counting the effect of relic damage boost if it were to kick in). DRK does not have an equivolent mercurial weapon for that level, and WAR has to wait until 62 for M sword, even then the proficiency of a WAR with a GS is nothing on a SAM weilding its high grade weapon. Don't even bother trying to say DRK can use M kris lol... but drk CAN use M kris, not good in ptys but at later levels, Mkris Drk > Soboro Sam (not in ptys yet again) Also, Rng/war can do the same with a KC...so you aren't exactly going anywhere LOL yeh because spamming dancing edge on DRK can really match Namas arrow... Zerg. Look it up.
LOL your really comparing a setup relying on a 2hour that can only be used in a handful of situations with the ability of a SAM to inflict huge damage over and over again with soboro/Namas.
Dude that's not quite on the same playing field... like I said, not in ptys, but I'm just making a point that YOU are wrong in saying that there is nothing else like Hagun or Soboro when there clearly is. Granted, everything is situational. (anyone fulltiming a soboro on EVERYTHING needs to be banned, same goes for Mkris unless its offhand)
 Sylph.Spency
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6969
By Sylph.Spency 2010-06-01 15:44:15
RDM/RNG or gtfo.
By Fenrir.Luarania 2010-06-01 15:45:29
Sylph.Spency said: RDM/RNG or gtfo. lulz, not that ***again...
Caitsith.Alriath
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 200
By Caitsith.Alriath 2010-06-01 15:45:54
Quote: Because Soboro/Namas is ever-so common.
Leviathan.Dubont
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-01 15:46:10
Sylph.Spency said: RDM/RNG or gtfo.
yea! dude man bro guy! Rdm/Rng we can haste ourselves for even more dmg!!!! >.> lol
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-06-01 15:46:21
Omicronceti said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Ramuh.Haseyo said: In terms of power, there's nothing like it. Sure it has the same effects, but those effects Sam = ungodly strength. Unfortunately Dubont is missing the point completely hear, I'm not trying to say that soboro is the best weapon for a SAM lol, I'm simply trying to say that it's one of the many MANY options SAM has access to, that in certain situation makes it nigh unbeatable for DD potential, and that other jobs do not have the same versatility when it comes to DD across the board. Lol...you can't be serious. SS nigh unbeatable in DD situations? You do realize that all the worth while DD jobs (drg, war, drk etc) have options that make them "nigh unbeatable" in certain situations. Blanket statements ftw.
Perhaps you would like to enlighten us with your all knowing brain as to a setup where a DD could out do a SS/Namas SAM over the short space of time it takes to unleash 3 Namas Arrows?
Sylph.Spency
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6969
By Sylph.Spency 2010-06-01 15:46:34
Fenrir.Luarania said: Sylph.Spency said: RDM/RNG or gtfo. lulz, not that ***again... 
By Fenrir.Luarania 2010-06-01 15:48:02
fking Canada =( I hate Canada...
If this derails into RDM/RNG...
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-06-01 15:49:15
Leviathan.Dubont said: like I said, not in ptys, but I'm just making a point that YOU are wrong in saying that there is nothing else like Hagun or Soboro when there clearly is. Granted, everything is situational. (anyone fulltiming a soboro on EVERYTHING needs to be banned, same goes for Mkris unless its offhand)
Well give me an example of a setup for DRK WAR or DRG any other melee DD where they can spam WS with the potency of a relic bow SAM. Not a zerg which can happen every 2 hours.
Quetzalcoatl.Brayenn
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 306
By Quetzalcoatl.Brayenn 2010-06-01 15:49:48
what exactly is the argument here? first i see talk about tp bonus weapons and then comparing other job weapons to soboro + yoichi combo? i dun get it
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10387
By Siren.Enternius 2010-06-01 15:52:49
Ramuh.Sagittario said: Omicronceti said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Ramuh.Haseyo said: In terms of power, there's nothing like it. Sure it has the same effects, but those effects Sam = ungodly strength. Unfortunately Dubont is missing the point completely hear, I'm not trying to say that soboro is the best weapon for a SAM lol, I'm simply trying to say that it's one of the many MANY options SAM has access to, that in certain situation makes it nigh unbeatable for DD potential, and that other jobs do not have the same versatility when it comes to DD across the board. Lol...you can't be serious. SS nigh unbeatable in DD situations? You do realize that all the worth while DD jobs (drg, war, drk etc) have options that make them "nigh unbeatable" in certain situations. Blanket statements ftw.
Perhaps you would like to enlighten us with your all knowing brain as to a setup where a DD could out do a SS/Namas SAM over the short space of time it takes to unleash 3 Namas Arrows?
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-06-01 15:52:49
Ramuh.Sagittario said: Well give me an example of a setup for DRK WAR or DRG any other melee DD where they can spam WS with the potency of a relic bow SAM. Not a zerg which can happen every 2 hours.
new OaT ToM weapons with full haste set up...should be fairly close...
Leviathan.Dubont
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-01 15:54:37
Ramuh.Sagittario said: like I said, not in ptys, but I'm just making a point that YOU are wrong in saying that there is nothing else like Hagun or Soboro when there clearly is. Granted, everything is situational. (anyone fulltiming a soboro on EVERYTHING needs to be banned, same goes for Mkris unless its offhand) Quote: Well give me an example of a setup for DRK WAR or DRG any other melee DD where they can spam WS with the potency of a relic bow SAM. Not a zerg which can happen every 2 hours.
first, you are bad at quoting, second, how many sam are you going to see running around with a relic bow? Third, like I said, it is situational. Apoc drk/war with maxed haste (I think) would out perform a soboro Sam/rng with relic bow with maxed haste in a parse on mobs that were not weak to piercing. If someone who isn't biased could do that math for such an occasion, it would be greatly appreciated
By Omicronceti 2010-06-01 15:57:50
Ramuh.Sagittario said: Omicronceti said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Ramuh.Haseyo said: In terms of power, there's nothing like it. Sure it has the same effects, but those effects Sam = ungodly strength. Unfortunately Dubont is missing the point completely hear, I'm not trying to say that soboro is the best weapon for a SAM lol, I'm simply trying to say that it's one of the many MANY options SAM has access to, that in certain situation makes it nigh unbeatable for DD potential, and that other jobs do not have the same versatility when it comes to DD across the board. Lol...you can't be serious. SS nigh unbeatable in DD situations? You do realize that all the worth while DD jobs (drg, war, drk etc) have options that make them "nigh unbeatable" in certain situations. Blanket statements ftw.
Perhaps you would like to enlighten us with your all knowing brain as to a setup where a DD could out do a SS/Namas SAM over the short space of time it takes to unleash 3 Namas Arrows?
You know, you're right. Since so many sams are running around with Namas how silly of me to doubt sam's unmatched DD ability.
Keep pulling out super specific scenarios to make your point. I'm gonna go polish my Namas that I got when I signed on the sam bandwagon.
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-06-01 15:59:26
The same can be said for how many DRKs will you see running around with Apoc? Lets not begin to argue over that, let's instead look at the potential of the jobs in question.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-01 16:00:24
Siren.Enternius said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Omicronceti said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: Ramuh.Haseyo said: In terms of power, there's nothing like it. Sure it has the same effects, but those effects Sam = ungodly strength. Unfortunately Dubont is missing the point completely hear, I'm not trying to say that soboro is the best weapon for a SAM lol, I'm simply trying to say that it's one of the many MANY options SAM has access to, that in certain situation makes it nigh unbeatable for DD potential, and that other jobs do not have the same versatility when it comes to DD across the board. Lol...you can't be serious. SS nigh unbeatable in DD situations? You do realize that all the worth while DD jobs (drg, war, drk etc) have options that make them "nigh unbeatable" in certain situations. Blanket statements ftw.
Perhaps you would like to enlighten us with your all knowing brain as to a setup where a DD could out do a SS/Namas SAM over the short space of time it takes to unleash 3 Namas Arrows? Not with Brutal Earring you won't. Different SJ would probably be wise too, perhaps /DRG?
Leviathan.Dubont
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1686
By Leviathan.Dubont 2010-06-01 16:01:41
Ramuh.Sagittario said: The same can be said for how many DRKs will you see running around with Apoc? Lets not begin to argue over that, let's instead look at the potential of the jobs in question. I actually see a LOT more drks running around with Apoc than Sam with relic bows...most sam I see with relic are using relic GK, but again if you are looking at potential, Drk Zerg > Sam with relic bow. If you are looking at actual probability and not just once in a blue moon circumstances, Apoc Drk > Sam with Soboro
 Valefor.Argettio
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 559
By Valefor.Argettio 2010-06-01 16:04:37
Leviathan.Dubont said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: like I said, not in ptys, but I'm just making a point that YOU are wrong in saying that there is nothing else like Hagun or Soboro when there clearly is. Granted, everything is situational. (anyone fulltiming a soboro on EVERYTHING needs to be banned, same goes for Mkris unless its offhand) Quote: Well give me an example of a setup for DRK WAR or DRG any other melee DD where they can spam WS with the potency of a relic bow SAM. Not a zerg which can happen every 2 hours.
first, you are bad at quoting, second, how many sam are you going to see running around with a relic bow? Third, like I said, it is situational. Apoc drk/war with maxed haste (I think) would out perform a soboro Sam/rng with relic bow with maxed haste in a parse on mobs that were not weak to piercing. If someone who isn't biased could do that math for such an occasion, it would be greatly appreciated
What?
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-01 16:07:30
Leviathan.Dubont said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: like I said, not in ptys, but I'm just making a point that YOU are wrong in saying that there is nothing else like Hagun or Soboro when there clearly is. Granted, everything is situational. (anyone fulltiming a soboro on EVERYTHING needs to be banned, same goes for Mkris unless its offhand) Quote: Well give me an example of a setup for DRK WAR or DRG any other melee DD where they can spam WS with the potency of a relic bow SAM. Not a zerg which can happen every 2 hours.
first, you are bad at quoting, second, how many sam are you going to see running around with a relic bow? Third, like I said, it is situational. Apoc drk/war with maxed haste (I think) would out perform a soboro Sam/rng with relic bow with maxed haste in a parse on mobs that were not weak to piercing. If someone who isn't biased could do that math for such an occasion, it would be greatly appreciated You'd be sorely disappointed. Cata might have a small edge if you're not getting enough in the way of attack buffs to support relic WS, but last I heard Soboro/Yoichi SAM is an absolute beast of a setup. This is partially because of the setup itself and partially because Namas basically allows you to fulltime Hasso. The only reason it's uncommon is because most people don't understand how powerful it really is, along with some utility advantages in that it's quite the tanking weapon. Not quite on Apoc's level for that, though Cata is hardly necessary for DRK tank, but it's there.
Also, as mentioned DRK/WAR wut
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-06-01 16:08:18
Leviathan.Dubont said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: The same can be said for how many DRKs will you see running around with Apoc? Lets not begin to argue over that, let's instead look at the potential of the jobs in question. I actually see a LOT more drks running around with Apoc than Sam with relic bows...most sam I see with relic are using relic GK, but again if you are looking at potential, Drk Zerg > Sam with relic bow. If you are looking at actual probability and not just once in a blue moon circumstances, Apoc Drk > Sam with Soboro
Are you just talking out your *** now? How the *** can a DRK Zerg, a 2 hour reliant ability match the potential DoT of a soboro/Namas SAM?
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10387
By Siren.Enternius 2010-06-01 16:09:55
I don't really care, Nightfyre. You keep trying to start arguments over nothing, even though you know I don't care about anything FFXI-related anymore and am just popping in to prove him wrong.
And besides, I'd be surprised if SAM could do more in 3 WSs than a RNG could do in one. I hit 4623 on a Greater Colibri in normal gear and Minuetx2 with Culverin, that would mean a SAM would have to do 1500 per WS. Considering it's only going to do about 900 or so at 100 TP, we'll go ahead and say a RNG with ONE WS (Not taking into acocunt any Melee, Meditate, or 2hr) will do more than a Yoichi SAM with three WSs.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-01 16:10:49
Siren.Enternius said: I don't really care, Nightfyre. You keep trying to start arguments over nothing, even though you know I don't care about anything FFXI-related anymore and am just popping in to prove him wrong.
And besides, I'd be surprised if SAM could do more in 3 WSs than a RNG could do in one. I hit 4623 on a Greater Colibri in normal gear and Minuetx2 with Culverin, that would mean a SAM would have to do 1500 per WS. Considering it's only going to do about 900 or so at 100 TP, we'll go ahead and say a RNG with ONE WS (Not taking into acocunt any Melee, Meditate, or 2hr) will do more than a Yoichi SAM with three WSs. I'm not trying to start anything, I'm just pointing out flaws in the build. A properly geared KC/Culverin RNG is a beast in merits, but Brutal Earring kinda *** over KC. If I'd wanted to start ***I would have mentioned Cuch and AT.
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2010-06-01 16:11:27
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: This is partially because of the setup itself and partially because Namas basically allows you to fulltime Hasso.
how does that help with hasso? to my knowledge the bow WS's added effect is increased racc, while its the gun with -enmity (i think that was the chain of thought you were goin with) but i could be wrong, idk
Not really but now that i have your attention, What do you think will become of sam/rng with new update? idea? thoughts? I know sam/rng isnt "the best ever" but its fun to play around with. What you guys think will come of it when update hits? if anything.
|
|
