Mainly, For The Real RDM, But,... Ninja Nerfga.

Where, in the grand scheme of things, does RDM sit now(as level 80)?

This is a serious question, and it's directed towards those who actually care about RDM(If you don't care about RDM, you're gonaa tl;dr; And I have words for you at the end, if you can get that far. "tl;dr;" people are kinda a joke anyways.). What do we still have, compared to any other job? I'm having a hard time finding our purpose post-75.

The plain and simple truth is, RDM has had a LOT of potential in it. And it's been tapped, time and again, by good players. RDM has been not only almost completely neglected this update, it was also specifically nerfed... And specifically neglected. Ya know how great that 5/tic refre

RDM was stripped of tanking... The closest thing the job had to what a lot of us consider the job to be by it's history... The traditional melee mage.

The feature that was unique to RDM as a mage in the game, MP endurance, was handed to anything that subs RDM. (Much akin to how Samurai had self-SCing handed away at ease...)

I have to make this statement. SE had a choice here. Things were off kilter. Jobs had their roles overshadowed by other jobs.

What has SE done as a fix? Taken the easy way out. They handed every job in the game that can/will make use of it, the aspects that made those "elite" jobs elite.

Will it make much difference in the grand scheme of balance? I think not. I'll admit it, Samurai was broken. It became an easy way for people to get their rocks off. Big number in the chat log, "oh yeah, I'm the ***!" SAM has been Epeen on crutches.

Good SAMs don't Die. Good RDMs don't either.

For those wh

My advice to everyone who is complaining about the update:

Remember, the cap is rising to 99. Any 'nerf' is only for a few months until their true intentions are released. This is just a stepping stone update, there is no reason to get bent out of shape.

I have to agree

Don't really see where your going with this, but theirs what Five more lvl updates to go before everything is said and done. Refresh 2 or w/e will undoubtbly be in the next update since jobs will be able to sub it then.

Mp endurance is relative though it'll be a boon to blm for sure but there getting an entirely new class of high mp spells there gonna need it. From a whm's pov /rdm gives nothing that /sch doesn't already do better.

Don't really see rdm losing anything in this update since like you stated there already so solid.

yeah it sucks that our mp longevity which is pretty much our claim to fame since the beginning of rdm has been dolled out to everyone, but we have indirectly gained some as well:

/whm
Stona and Cura: very viable support tools; as well as some teleport spells (game breaking? not really. but handy all the same)

/blm
warp2, stonega2 (practical? not really. but chainspell stonega2 would be fun for kicks lol)

/sch gets all kinds of goodies.

and i know im loving regen 2 with composure.

I expected there to be some new enfeebling spells but i guess that will be later down the line. Yeah we only got modest upgrades and yeah it looks like RDM got the shaft but dont go /wrists and write off RDM just yet. Im upset about the whole convert ordeal and our hate being nerfed i think was the single worst part of this entire update. but i think we may get some things that will even the playing field for us.

I think the RDM powerhouse is still looming in the future so all you mages get your fill of the spotlight now because i predict RDM will become a monster again at higher levels.

This is slightly off topic, but I did not feel like making a new RDM thread.

Has anyone tried Accession > Phalanx II?

I know Phalanx II is weaker than Phalanx, but this would enable a RDM to Phalanxga multiple people without having to run into the middle of the fight and get hit with aoe moves.

You mean the way WHM had their jobs thrown into the shadows by RDM's for over 5~6 years?

Or how about the way that, /anything, WHM recently got shafted out of their job (again), by SCH's?

Now the playing field is being put on a slightly fairer level. WHM's dont need RDM's to be able to keep their MP a little more balanced. BLM's can go for longer with better MP conservation.

It's already been said, RDM's are still the big dogs in the game.

Aside from getting *** off your Casting and Recast timers, aside from being able to solo damn near anything, aside from being every-thefuck-bodies lifeline..

Yeah, the game hates RDM's so much.


I seriously don't see why RDM's cry, *** and moan every single time an update rolls around.

Looking at the game from the 3 major sides (PT'ing, Solo'ing, Endgame):

1. You'll always get parties. Always. Forever.
2. You can solo damn near anything that's soloable, seriously.
3. Yeah, the whole "Support" and "Enfeebling" crap that RDM's do better than anyone else doesn't matter here, so I'm not even going to touch it.


You have it better than WHM's, who only get PT's when no SCH or RDM is seeking, why? Because RDM and SCH have better MP Conservation.

Have you ever thought, the potential reason for not making RDM overpowered to high hell, again, is because they don't actually need anything to be able to play in both Team and Solo environments?

Other DD's have been overshadowed by SAM's for a couple of years at least, don't you think the melee playing field was levelled a bit? Why not level both melee and mage fields?


Riddle me this:
Do you think RDM actually needs an update? Or do you just want one "because other jobs got one"?

@OP
"RDM has been not only almost completely neglected this update, it was also specifically nerfed... "

the blind/dispel enmity 'nerf' isn't a nerf specifically aimed at rdm. arguably it isn't even a nerf but a boon (for times when not tanking). but my point is that other jobs have been using the enmity from those spells as well. nin/drk? so it wasn't specific to rdm.

"The feature that was unique to RDM as a mage in the game, MP endurance, was handed to anything that subs RDM."

SMN has Auto-Refresh. SCH has Sublimation and Arts. BLM and SCH have Conserve MP. I don't see how 'MP Endurance' is unique to RDM. Is RDM's better? In comparison to SCH, not by much. Also RDM can borrow other MP Endurance abilities from those jobs as well.

"Where, in the grand scheme of things, does RDM sit now(as level 80)?"

IDK. I'm not Level 80 and I haven't done a lot of the new EG. Few have. Wait and see. I guarantee you though that RDM will have a top spot.

Oh god more RDM talk, same *** as always, nothing new, More WHM now shines talk, more SCH and accession fail talk. YAY. :D I'm so happy for this worthless thread that has been repeated 10 times.

not really anymore(in this thread atleast) because Hitetsu pretty much stamped out all the *** lol.
but you'll have people only reading the OP and jumping on so hell...

he stated out what has been said OVER AND OVER OVER AND OVER AGAIN. he just took the trouble to resume it in a very organized matter so people would STFU,not go on /rampages to realize everything he just said.


let's hope people still dont /blind and go /rage :D haha. Because this obviously started as a RDM QQ thread.

I am a 76 rdm, just beginning to find out what I can and Can't do. When RDM got composure it extended spells: sneak, invis, stoneskin, protect/shell, refresh, regen phalanx(i may be wrong on some i have not used a stop watch to time them).

A whole new set of possibilities opens with /sch, not having haste-ga or erase kinda blows but having Refresh-ga will be a blessing. Endgame activities with refresh-ga will be alot easier One spell to refresh whm, pld and any other mage will be a blessing.

There are still 19 levels worth of updates, why whine now and look foolish later. Be patient, I know of 6 yr olds that whine less when they don't get what they want.

I'd argue that it was in fact specific to RDM and that NIN/DRK and NIN/RDM tanking was an unintended casualty. SE's been buffing NIN tanking on and off for years now; see Yonin for the most recent example. Taking a wrecking ball to NIN's CE generation in high-level endgame situations runs completely counter to SE's previous behavior, whereas there is literally no precedent specific to RDM tanking. Sleep II and Blind II are also RDM-specific in terms of tanking. PLD/RDM at JoL and such would also be an unfortunate casualty (more opportunities for me to tank! BLU equivalents were not nerfed). DRK/NIN suffers a little, but only on targets they couldn't engage fulltime so they're mostly intact.

While RDM didn't really get anything this update, they weren't at a point where they really needed anything either. SE might have overdone it a bit as RDM is much less desirable for the time reason, but I'm betting they'll stay on top as future updates increase the level cap further.

Besides, you can still solo an appalling portion of the game's content as RDM >_>;

While this has nerfed rdm tanking it has actually been rather helpful the last few days for me. Like when I am sleeping multiple enemies while being main healer debuffer etc, when the DDs finish a mob and move to the next one they get hate right away no matter how long I've kept that mob asleep.


Really though only thing rdm really has on everyone is debuffing and what did they do gave us T4 nukes!?! I mean yeah I like the nukes but give us our merit spells like you did whm even at min potency please

How can anyone possibly claim that RDM didn't get "anything" this update? Accession/Manifestation, Stona as /WHM and Erase as /SCH aren't good enough for you? And even if it weren't, you've got Regen 2, Stone/Water 4 and Protect 5 to top it all off. Still not good enough? QQ moar? How much do you seriously expect to get in five levels?

RDM tanking got nerfed? So what? RDM was never intended to be a tanking job and its ability to do so was kinda broken. So yeah, they fixed it. Tears for making the game a little more balanced?

There are a some jobs who got less than RDM out of this update..jobs that were VERY much less broken than RDM to begin with. You guys have NOTHING to complain about. Even if it were true that RDM got nothing this update you'd still have nothing to complain about. Cry me a river because your overpowered job didn't get even more overpowered. Although, I suppose that would be a hypothetical river because the benefits you guys just got from /SCH DOES make you significantly more overpowered regardless.

RDM's got the ability to whine more.
That's something right?

Rdm didn't get that /sch and /whm got that. That's a huge difference

It's not a huge difference. The point is that RDM can do it and it's a very big improvement for the job.

Anyone can do it and that makes it a big difference

Sure, anyone can do it at the cost of other benefits. The only other job that would commonly use /SCH is WHM and they already have Stona and Erase but they have to sacrifice /RDM convert for /SCH Accession/Manifestation. All RDM has to sacrifice is Stona to get all the other abilities.

It's silly to discount abilities gained from SJ as an improvement to your job. Like the biggest improvements SCH got this update were Haste and Convert, both from sub job. Not Stone V, not Protect V and certainly not Occult Acumen >_>

You still failed to rationalize how the enmity is not a nerf to rdm tanking, the t4's I'm sure the T4's will be great on the old mobs but they will still fail on the new mobs. Redmage is still only what the 5th best magic DD? 17th best Melee DD? 3rd best healer? Buffer? well with phalanx 1 being far better then 2, no need for that, the brd/whm or whm or sch/whm can haste, no need for that.

so the only thing we excel at are solo's which I can honestly not think of one that blm, sch, pup, cor, smn or blu can't do either. and we got slow 2, honestly never really sure if para2 is worth it. and we have refresh for now, so I'm not really sure why rdm's is so ostracized for complaining about tanking being taken away, the one area we were close to the top.

people are still posting here even though it's a fact this thread has been done 10 times before.
BRAH.
YOU PEOPLE LIKE YOUR RDM Q.Qs

^ This.

You dont have that rdm PRIDE!

KK let me jump on the bandwagon then so I have rdm pride.



Q.Q I really want to never get spell interrupted, that will make me A BETTER AND LAZIER RDM. if you don't make it happen, RDM got shafted, BRAH.

An RDM who QQ's about this update most likely is only a part time RDM who didn't pay enough attention to what RDM's got. Also, I'm looking forward to the hate forums from all the other jobs once the cap is 99 about what RDM will get. I'm willing to bet RDM will have all other jobs QQing hard at 99.

tl;dr;??? whats that sorry

nuuu, rdm's that Q.Q are the AF full timing *** that are too-weak so need MOAR FROM SE.

:D ill still pick rdm>sch>whm, cuz rdm is kool :D!