AF Or SH?

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
言語: JP EN FR DE
日本語版のFFXIVPRO利用したい場合は、上記の"JP"を設定して、又はjp.ffxivpro.comを直接に利用してもいいです
users online
フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Ninja » AF or SH?
AF or SH?
First Page 2
 Sylph.Hitetsu
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Hitetsu
Posts: 2617
By Sylph.Hitetsu 2009-01-04 13:28:06  
What's YOUR thoughts?! Speak to me Vana..

Now, enough of the bad radio.. At 58NIN would I be better using AF Body (Dual Wield +5%, Blaze Spikes damage) or SH?

I'm actually quite torn between the 2.. I know in general, NIN TP in AF body because of the DW bonus, but I'm an EVA *** and I like to pile on EVA as much as I can until around 30-40'ish (I hear cap is around 37, so anything close to there is good for me).

SH also has the bonus of ACC+10, which on A- weapons can help out a bit.
 Garuda.Wooooodum
Offline
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
user: Wooooodum
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-01-04 13:38:20  
Scorpion Harness when levelling I'm afraid. The accuracy bonus is far more valuable than 5% less attack delay. In parties when levelling (ie. on monsters that read as Tough or Higher) you'll just miss 5% less with Ninja Chainmail on.

It goes Haubergeon > Scorpion Harness > Ninja Chainmail when levelling. Ninja Chainmail comes into it's own at higher levels and in misc. things like coffer farming, etc.
 Sylph.Hitetsu
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Hitetsu
Posts: 2617
By Sylph.Hitetsu 2009-01-04 14:15:07  
So at 59 I should trade out my SH for a Hauby and keep SH for when I need the EVA more?
 Diabolos.Ksusno
Offline
サーバ: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
user: Ksusno
Posts: 13
By Diabolos.Ksusno 2009-01-04 14:19:13  
Nah I'd prolly use Hauby for macroing into WS and just wear the SH for TP build cause that evasion/AGI down is a *** if you're tanking in parties
 Bahamut.Danagon
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Danagon
Posts: 130
By Bahamut.Danagon 2009-01-04 14:25:29  
i got my NIN AF macroed for DD, SH for when ima tanking and hauby for WS i do switch into AF body way more than i should do (what can i say >.> <3 fast att rates) but all in all SH when lvling imo solo then imo AF all the way
 Gilgamesh.Raulin
Offline
サーバ: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
user: raulin
Posts: 26
By Gilgamesh.Raulin 2009-01-04 14:26:29  
yea use SH ever in xp hauby is only for WS then back to SH
 Bahamut.Danagon
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Danagon
Posts: 130
By Bahamut.Danagon 2009-01-04 14:28:37  
oh and forgot to add i use AFbody when i clearly wont get hate back easy e.g. a DRK goes souleater WS at the start of a fight (GREAAAAT ONE then dies and blames me -_-)
 Phoenix.Strongside
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 45
By Phoenix.Strongside 2009-01-04 14:50:37  
If you have snipers pcc and sushi go with the af for faster kills/exp at lvl 58 im sure your at birds so use the SH the eva and acc is very nice. at lvl 75 i barely ever use a SH i always have af on but i also have max katana merits and bunch of acc ***. at 75 sh is a meh i'd only use it for soloing thats it merit = af end game *** = arhat gi +1 imo idk up to you and what you have really
 Garuda.Wooooodum
Offline
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
user: Wooooodum
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-01-04 15:01:00  
Scorpion harness offers less accuracy and attack then Haubergeon, and most of the time people will expect you to deal damage more than to successfully blink tank each monster. Even if you were to stack loads of evasion to avoid being hit (and thus being able to keep shadows up an entire fight), you wouldn't be able to keep hate whatsoever because you'd be doing next to no damage.

99% of people expect Ninjas to damage more than blink tank in experience parties, and that's why you should use Haubergeon.

Think about it this way. The majority of parties you get at those levels would be ones where you'd be expect to kill a fastish pace for maximum experience. I don't think I've ever had a party in Aht Urhgan areas that's been "a party", so to speak. It's always been about killing the monsters as fast as possible for the highest experience yield. The sort of party where you'd be told / need to use Scorpion Harness would be the sort of parties people leave because they're too slow and "gimp".
 Sylph.Hitetsu
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Hitetsu
Posts: 2617
By Sylph.Hitetsu 2009-01-04 15:16:02  
Strongside said:
If you have snipers pcc and sushi go with the af for faster kills/exp


My gear isn't quite that sexy, although I think it's respectable.

At 52 (my level atm) I use Spike Necklace, upgrading to Chiv Chain at 60 and have EVA torque for 65/67/whatever level it is, i forget >.>

I use Ecphoria and Rajas atm and because I'm a cheapskate, I stick to crab sushi, mostly so when I lose it, I don't end up losing 2k/time from top-end sushi's, but still gain a decent acc bonus.

My NIN will probably use something similar to this when I hit the levels I can use them. Obviously with different gear where it's needed (Fuma for shoes instead of Unicorn, etc).

I'll definitely keep all your suggestions in mind when I come to hit 59 and have all 3 body pieces to choose from and I'll experiment to see which I prefer in general. ^^
 Fairy.Blackmist
Offline
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
user: Blackmist
Posts: 525
By Fairy.Blackmist 2009-01-04 15:48:31  
I would use SH & hauby respetivly, hauby for parry skill ups in pt. but higher chance to take dmg.
~ so Sh = more surviability
~ an haub, = more dot

use them both, see how they work out for you the best. if you have enough Eva to make up for the -20 from hauby (I know i don't) then =3 go fo it
 Phoenix.Strongside
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 45
By Phoenix.Strongside 2009-01-04 17:18:03  
Hitetsu said:
So at 59 I should trade out my SH for a Hauby and keep SH for when I need the EVA more?


Don't use a hauby -5 agi and - 20eva will slow you down alot at 58 leaving you with no shadows or timers and taking damage alot of it draining mp ultimatly leading to downtime which you dont want use huaby only for ws's stick to the SH when you get to places where they dont eat food away use sushi and switch to af.

eva torque is good for solo i personally macro it into my ichi macro and switch back to pcc for tp potent belt will be good if you dont have a swift
 Garuda.Wooooodum
Offline
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
user: Wooooodum
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-01-04 17:19:51  
What's such a big deal with -5 AGI and -20 Evasion when 90% of the time a Samurai or Warrior's going to be tanking? Better to use a Haubergeon and *try* to keep up with them.
 Phoenix.Strongside
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 45
By Phoenix.Strongside 2009-01-04 17:25:09  
Wooooodum said:
What's such a big deal with -5 AGI and -20 Evasion when 90% of the time a Samurai or Warrior's going to be tanking? Better to use a Haubergeon and *try* to keep up with them.


Well yeah if someone else has hate then put it on i'm assuming he has hate though....
 Garuda.Wooooodum
Offline
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
user: Wooooodum
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-01-04 17:27:07  
Don't think I was ever really tanking at that level, I was just first provoke to stop them owning the puller. I was in a static, though, with a WAR, DRK and SAM to compete with, all of them well geared too.
 Unicorn.Smurfo
Offline
サーバ: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
user: Stubbie
Posts: 321
By Unicorn.Smurfo 2009-01-04 17:51:04  
I dunno, i was wondering the same thing cause i was planning nin to 75, i think i decided chainmail would be best with haub on WS, anything you can mention a SH and haub does is replaceable by food and or gears in other places, any amount of acc or attack you can gain from a body piece is easily replaceable however 5% DW is not at that level, and in the grand scheme of things since i'd plan to do chain mail > haub on WS, the only stat we are really talking about losing is 10 acc since eva = "lol" in a burn party. 10 ACC is a rather small amount and easily compensated, especially if eating sushi 10 acc amounts to nothing lol.

its a tough call but i think its easy to beef the acc in other places to compensate with a bit of money to do it properly i.e. +1 snipers and ***..

its just my opinion though take it with a grain of salt, i'm no pro-ninja though i can say 5% to a wield stat is not replaceable whereas acc & attack are super easy to boost though it may be rather expensive to do it properly, especially with a bard it'd be no problem at all to TP faster with a chainmail.
 Garuda.Wooooodum
Offline
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
user: Wooooodum
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-01-04 17:54:47  
Attack and Accuracy sure is replacable, but not against Colibri. You'll need all the accuracy you can get against those. That is, unless you have 500,000,000g to waste on stacks and stacks of Sushi each party.

Just remember that the OP was asking about Level 58, what do you fight at 59? Colibri or Puks, then more Colibri!

PS. Whilst we're having the Sniper's +1 discussion, why not just go the whole hog and use a Haubergeon +1, Sniper's Ring +1, Peacock Charm, etc etc. I'm sure you could use Ninja Chainmail if you have that lot and get away with it accuracy wise.
 Unicorn.Smurfo
Offline
サーバ: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
user: Stubbie
Posts: 321
By Unicorn.Smurfo 2009-01-04 17:57:29  
who fights birds at that lvl w/o madrigal though? I refuse to. fact is 10 acc in gear is a pretty small amount. I can stack +70 acc on my war at 75 easily but does that mean im going to hit an IT every time? nope, its a redundant stat after a point, thus people go for haste build rather than pure acc. and 5% to DW is very helpful
 Garuda.Wooooodum
Offline
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
user: Wooooodum
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-01-04 17:59:50  
I've fought them plenty of times without Madrigal, and yes, it was a nightmare. Bottom line is though that there's not always a Bard available to level with.

Accuracy does have a cap, yes, but I highly doubt any NIN58 is at that cap.
 Unicorn.Smurfo
Offline
サーバ: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
user: Stubbie
Posts: 321
By Unicorn.Smurfo 2009-01-04 18:16:27  
I honestly will not exp on birds without a bard. I have many other things i can do in that time than blow gil on a crappy party but that's me, i'm not that hard up to level a low job.

One other thing that i'd like to make a point of, you are generalizing nin58-75 will exp exclusively upon birds, this is false. Yes most people favor birds for some dumb reason but many times you will end up fighting mobs that allow sushi, and in that event if your still TP'ing in a pure acc build when you could have 5% .. well, lol.. Dont discount the AF as a viable body for TP'ing because like any gear in game it is situational and you generalized 1 situation as being all. It really does offer unique stats for TP'ing in

Again i'm no professional ninja but it's got the same rules as any other melee that uses 1hand weapons. Especially since it is by no means a dedicated tank job anymore, there are no actual tank jobs anymore which is sad :(
 Garuda.Wooooodum
Offline
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
user: Wooooodum
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-01-04 18:21:13  
I'm not generalising all those levels, I'm generalising level 58, the level the OP asked about :p

I love my Ninja Chainmail, I use it all the time on 75 for just about everything, since the rest of my gear more or less supports the accuracy loss. It's beautiful, don't get me wrong on that. Looks neat too!
 Unicorn.Smurfo
Offline
サーバ: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
user: Stubbie
Posts: 321
By Unicorn.Smurfo 2009-01-04 18:26:23  
Actually at 58 isn't the best zone the one with crawlers and puktraps, subterraine? (sp?)

It's been a while since i exp'd a job that range but i remember getting insane exp/hr in that place when birds became lame prey.
 Unicorn.Smurfo
Offline
サーバ: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
user: Stubbie
Posts: 321
By Unicorn.Smurfo 2009-01-04 18:28:06  
yah just talking about it on forum makes me want to log in and finish my AF quests and lvl the job some lol, i really enjoyed it but i quit game for a while and sold off my gearz lol
 Garuda.Wooooodum
Offline
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
user: Wooooodum
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-01-04 18:31:19  
I suppose it just depends entirely on who you're levelling with. I've not personally levelled in the Subterrane before 62, because the Leypoint camps provide as good as, if not better, experience. I have had a few brilliant parties in the Subterrane though, and I'd choose to level there over anywhere else for the music alone :)
 Fairy.Yakutatazu
Offline
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 588
By Fairy.Yakutatazu 2009-01-04 19:19:07  
If you have Thf worth anything (I know 90% suck at life and couldn't play the job if their life depended on it) I'd say go with SH for tp, otherwise Hauby. Af is good but the loss of acc isn't worth it imo. I mean sure you might get 2-3 hits more per minute, but you're also going to miss 2-3 more. You don't need a Brd or Cor to have a good pt, if your DDs aren't crap they should do ok w/o the bonus. I've had plenty of pts with out a Brd or Cor work much better than having a crappy Brd or Cor that can't play it (seems to be more and more of those these days).
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2009-01-04 20:26:18
 Delete | Edit  | Link | 引用 | 返事
 
Honestly, if you need EVA/ACC, use SH and macro Hauby for WS.

If you don't need the EVA/ACC, switch to AF/Hauby.

Each body has its use, as with everything its situational.

I don't see NIN melee attacks hitting much even with SH, Hunter's Roll, x1 Sniper's Ring and Squid Sushi +1... but thats on Imps. lol
 Hades.Feix
Offline
サーバ: Hades
Game: FFXI
user: DartX
Posts: 26
By Hades.Feix 2009-01-04 21:13:13  
Aledacia said:
Honestly, if you need EVA/ACC, use SH and macro Hauby for WS. If you don't need the EVA/ACC, switch to AF/Hauby. Each body has its use, as with everything its situational. I don't see NIN melee attacks hitting much even with SH, Hunter's Roll, x1 Sniper's Ring and Squid Sushi +1... but thats on Imps. lol


my 69nin barely ever misses if I'm using sushi idk what you're talkin about XD then my Jin does 500+ avg. maybe the Nin's u get don't have capped Katana from too much lvl sync :P
 Bahamut.Ziggz
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Ziggz
Posts: 89
By Bahamut.Ziggz 2009-01-04 21:38:07  
well... being a ninja that has gone through fighting colibris with a hauby and a SH, i would have to say that you do not full time your hauby. If the mob turns, put the hauby on, even though you won't be getting the hate back from a few slaps anywho. it really depends on whether your DDs are worth anything or not. In some parties you may hit chain 20 (which is a party you could possibly full time a hauby because you probably won't be tanking for the 45 seconds the mob is alive). Then other parties you may struggle for chain 4, which is going to b a SH party... you should be able to know, but if there is anything i can tell you, it's that if the mob is attacking you with a hauby on, your shadows WILL drop before your timers are up, no questions asked. (unless you have the best evasion gear money can buy, which means you aren't hitting the mob...)
 Asura.Mikerocca
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: kord
Posts: 43
By Asura.Mikerocca 2009-01-04 21:58:10  
I think when all is said and done, your debate should be SH vs. Haub, rather than SH vs. AF.

Ideally, you'd want both for all reasons mentioned in the previous posts. You can't go wrong with having either of the two, but if you want better survivability and want to make things a little easier on your mages, go with the SH for sure.

You may not be able to keep enough hate due to the damage being done by well geared DD's, but they decide to unleash their strongest WS when the mob is still at 95-100% then they're DD's that are not worth a damn and probably deserve to die ^^;
 Fairy.Blackmist
Offline
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
user: Blackmist
Posts: 525
By Fairy.Blackmist 2009-01-04 22:02:00  
heheh >.< now i wana level my NIN more lol should get my friend to come pld so i can go DD nin hahah >.< saves me gil on shadows fo shure >.>

An ya its sad how BRD's just throw up 1 or 2 songs, or refuse to pull, or w/e and Thf's heh.. reading yakus post made me wana finnish thf <3 that job, i swear i pull allmost as fast a brd "end up solo'n colirbi some times when i pull to soon xD"

^-^;
First Page 2