Check This Out.

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Check this out.
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 Lakshmi.Gargemel
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By Lakshmi.Gargemel 2010-07-24 01:53:00  
[12:05:32 AM] (Gargemel) soboros >.> you guys can still get decent skill ups with a real gkt
[12:06:05 AM] (Rale) i take it you don't know how good Soboro actually is
[12:09:39 AM] (Gargemel) you guys seriously going to soboro spam ~.~
[12:09:57 AM] (Rale) Soboro is awesome, deal with it
[12:10:04 AM] (Sunflower) its really not lol
[12:10:30 AM] (Rale) i could ask you to stop using great sword, but i guess you're skilling it up or something (I was skilling up GSD lul)
[12:11:35 AM] (Gargemel) i could pull out [Bahamut Zaghnal], would be the same thing as soboro
[12:11:45 AM] (Gargemel) now that's a comparison
[12:12:08 AM] (Rale) except bahamut's zagnal sucks
[12:12:11 AM] (Rale) and soboro doesn;t
[12:12:19 AM] (Gargemel) soboro sucks lol
[12:12:26 AM] (Gargemel) its /dnc only
[12:12:33 AM] (Rale) oh god
[12:12:49 AM] (Rale) go read up on it or something, until then keep to yourself please
[12:13:09 AM] (Gargemel) i'm parsing lol, i got factual stats in front of me
[12:13:16 AM] (Kirrby) you obviouly have no idea whom you are talking to
[12:13:29 AM] (Rale) if he thinks soboro sucks, he's a moron
[12:13:43 AM] (Rale) but you're right, i don't know him
[12:14:06 AM] (Gargemel) funny guy is funny
[12:14:09 AM] (Beramode) well, regardless of weapons sucking or not, I'm sure the parse doesn't lie
[12:15:12 AM] (Rale) hagun is great, no doubt
[12:16:06 AM] (Gargemel) wildslicer from [Nyzul Isle] would parse higher than soboro if you cant afford hagun
[12:16:23 AM] (Rale) i just sold my hagun man
[12:16:39 AM] (Rale) because it's about equal to soboro for merit level mobs
[12:17:07 AM] (Gargemel) dude nothing you just said is right lol
[12:17:30 AM] (Rale) where are you getting your info from?
[12:17:37 AM] (Gargemel) my brain
[12:17:38 AM] (Rale) "lol i c hagun ws does more"?
[12:18:22 AM] (Gargemel) only way i would agree with you about soboro being good
[12:18:37 AM] (Gargemel) is if you had an amazing [Sidewinder] set, subber RNG, and spammed [Sidewinder]
[12:19:43 AM] (Deathguiese) u really think hitting the mobs for weak *** dmg so u can spam ws to try to up ur dmg is worth it ><
[12:20:00 AM] (Rale) when it increases your WS frequency by 50%? yes
[12:21:28 AM] (Rale) like i said, it's about equal for merit mob
[12:21:56 AM] (Gargemel) soboro = /dnc and /rng.

/discuss
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 Fenrir.Tool
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By Fenrir.Tool 2010-07-24 01:55:07  
I'd have to agree with you. Force feeding TP into the mob's mouth and having a 40 base delay (mid-end sword) is pretty meh, especially since newer GTKs have been released with significantly higher base DMG to benefit their type of weapon skills, it seems pointless to carry a soboro around aside from /RNG & /DNC.
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 Titan.Prefalin
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By Titan.Prefalin 2010-07-24 01:56:24  
i'll give a 1 for having a soboro and a 11 out of 10 for being stupid on thinking soboro is better than hagun c.c my SAM is only 66 and even i know its not that great...

EDIT: also like you said /DNC or /RNG onry.
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 Siren.Enternius
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By Siren.Enternius 2010-07-24 02:05:51  
I'll forgive your ignorance since I see you don't really have SAM to 75, but it ultimately depends on what you're fighting. 99% of the time, Soboro is one of the top GKs in parties, but in almost any situation where you'd use a Soboro in a party, you'd be better off using Polearm anyway. And naturally Soboro is a pretty bad idea for endgame, but the truth of it is Soboro is a lot better on EM or lower, and it's slightly under Hagun on average VTs.

I'm sure there are better options now, but whatever.
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 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-07-24 02:45:02  
Let's say you WS in oh.. 130 STR? TP in... 95 STR? WS is Y/G/K. Soboro averages 1.9 attacks per round. Enemy has.. 67 VIT. Hagun has a Weapon Rank of 8, meaning fSTR caps at 16. Soboro has a Weapon Rank of 4, so fSTR caps at 12. Assuming Sea Gorget.

Formulas:
WSDMG = (DMG + (STR-VIT)/4 + (STR*.75)*.83) * fTP
DOTDMG = DMG + (STR-VIT)/4

Hagun:
75 + 16 + 93 = 184*1.975 = 363 DMG
75 + 7 = 82 DMG

Soboro:
40 + 12 + 93 = 145*1.6625 = 241 DMG
40 + 12 = 52 DMG

What's this, Hagun's winning? Oh, wait. Forgot Soboro's attacking 1.9x more. Which increases WS frequency and the number of attacks.

True Soboro DMG:
241*1.9 = 457
52*1.9 = 89

(363/457)*.7 = ~14.7% WS advantage to Soboro.
(52/89)*.3 = ~12.6% DoT advantage to Soboro.

At the very least, on merit level mobs, Soboro is an absolute monster.

So, to put it simply, you're wrong and the other guy was right.
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 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-07-24 02:53:05  
Hell, I'll even do *** Kirin VIT for shits and giggles.

Same STR during WS and TP. Kirin has 120 Vit.

WS:
Hagun: 75 + 2 + 93 = 170 * 1.975 = 335
Soboro: 40+ 2 + 93 = 135 * 1.6625 = 224 * 1.9 = 425

TP:
Hagun: 75 + 2 = 77
Soboro: 40 + 2 = 42 * 1.9 = 79

WS:
(335/426)*.7 = 15.4% damage advantage to Soboro.

DoT:
(77/79)*.3 = 0.009% damage advantage to Soboro.

EDIT: I used Kirin because he spams ***anyway. Soboro isn't going to cause him to spam any faster.
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 Gilgamesh.Samuraiking
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By Gilgamesh.Samuraiking 2010-07-24 02:54:30  
Lakshmi.Gargemel said:
[12:05:32 AM] (Gargemel) soboros >.> you guys can still get decent skill ups with a real gkt
[12:06:05 AM] (Rale) i take it you don't know how good Soboro actually is
[12:09:39 AM] (Gargemel) you guys seriously going to soboro spam ~.~
[12:09:57 AM] (Rale) Soboro is awesome, deal with it
[12:10:04 AM] (Sunflower) its really not lol
[12:10:30 AM] (Rale) i could ask you to stop using great sword, but i guess you're skilling it up or something (I was skilling up GSD lul)
[12:11:35 AM] (Gargemel) i could pull out [Bahamut Zaghnal], would be the same thing as soboro
[12:11:45 AM] (Gargemel) now that's a comparison
[12:12:08 AM] (Rale) except bahamut's zagnal sucks
[12:12:11 AM] (Rale) and soboro doesn;t
[12:12:19 AM] (Gargemel) soboro sucks lol
[12:12:26 AM] (Gargemel) its /dnc only
[12:12:33 AM] (Rale) oh god
[12:12:49 AM] (Rale) go read up on it or something, until then keep to yourself please
[12:13:09 AM] (Gargemel) i'm parsing lol, i got factual stats in front of me
[12:13:16 AM] (Kirrby) you obviouly have no idea whom you are talking to
[12:13:29 AM] (Rale) if he thinks soboro sucks, he's a moron
[12:13:43 AM] (Rale) but you're right, i don't know him
[12:14:06 AM] (Gargemel) funny guy is funny
[12:14:09 AM] (Beramode) well, regardless of weapons sucking or not, I'm sure the parse doesn't lie
[12:15:12 AM] (Rale) hagun is great, no doubt
[12:16:06 AM] (Gargemel) wildslicer from [Nyzul Isle] would parse higher than soboro if you cant afford hagun
[12:16:23 AM] (Rale) i just sold my hagun man
[12:16:39 AM] (Rale) because it's about equal to soboro for merit level mobs
[12:17:07 AM] (Gargemel) dude nothing you just said is right lol
[12:17:30 AM] (Rale) where are you getting your info from?
[12:17:37 AM] (Gargemel) my brain
[12:17:38 AM] (Rale) "lol i c hagun ws does more"?
[12:18:22 AM] (Gargemel) only way i would agree with you about soboro being good
[12:18:37 AM] (Gargemel) is if you had an amazing [Sidewinder] set, subber RNG, and spammed [Sidewinder]
[12:19:43 AM] (Deathguiese) u really think hitting the mobs for weak *** dmg so u can spam ws to try to up ur dmg is worth it ><
[12:20:00 AM] (Rale) when it increases your WS frequency by 50%? yes
[12:21:28 AM] (Rale) like i said, it's about equal for merit mob
[12:21:56 AM] (Gargemel) soboro = /dnc and /rng.

/discuss


Pretty much what Etern said. While soboro is great in merit spots, in that same spot PLM would generally beat both hagun and soboro.

Soboro is *** /war and only becomes good when you /drg with wyvern earring and are able to sc with yourself through the use of jump and multihits.

Ofc if you are using something like /war soboro won't come near Hagun, but you are actually ignorant in this scenario OP for not knowing what you are talking about.

As for the new higher dmg weapons, Hagun still beats them, until about 105 or 106 base dmg Hagun will still pull more.

You never see me commenting on rng or cor threads, because I don't have them leveled. If you don't have sam leveled, considering the complexity of some of the builds I wouldn't bother talking ***like you did to Rale, not only did you make like yourself look like a fool, but you posted it on ffxiah for everyone to see....

Edit: Added quote in case he removes it lol.
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 Fenrir.Tool
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By Fenrir.Tool 2010-07-24 02:57:22  
Calm down, it was meant to be a discussion from the start. Not a flame war.

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 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-07-24 02:59:41  
I hate the spread of horrible information. It makes me raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage.
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 Gilgamesh.Samuraiking
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By Gilgamesh.Samuraiking 2010-07-24 02:59:52  
Fenrir.Tool said:
Calm down, it was meant to be a discussion from the start. Not a flame war.

I was very calm. Was no flaming at all. Why do I have to explain every thread where I use the word "ignorant" that it's not an insult or a synonym for stupid? It just means you lack knowledge in a certain field which the OP does.
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 Fenrir.Tool
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By Fenrir.Tool 2010-07-24 03:02:24  
Gilgamesh.Samuraiking said:
Fenrir.Tool said:
Calm down, it was meant to be a discussion from the start. Not a flame war.

I was very calm. Was no flaming at all. Why do I have to explain every thread where I use the word "ignorant" that it's not an insult or a synonym for stupid? It just means you lack knowledge in a certain field which the OP does.


Gilgamesh.Samuraiking said:

You never see me commenting on rng or cor threads, because I don't have them leveled. If you don't have sam leveled, considering the complexity of some of the builds I wouldn't bother talking ***like you did to Rale, not only did you make like yourself look like a fool, but you posted it on ffxiah for everyone to see....

K
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 Bismarck.Magnumatic
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By Bismarck.Magnumatic 2010-07-24 03:02:57  
Caitsith.Linear said:
I hate the spread of horrible information. It makes me raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage.

Arguing with a Hagun lover, is like arguing with a Theist.

[+]
 Gilgamesh.Samuraiking
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By Gilgamesh.Samuraiking 2010-07-24 03:04:42  
Fenrir.Tool said:
Gilgamesh.Samuraiking said:
Fenrir.Tool said:
Calm down, it was meant to be a discussion from the start. Not a flame war.

I was very calm. Was no flaming at all. Why do I have to explain every thread where I use the word "ignorant" that it's not an insult or a synonym for stupid? It just means you lack knowledge in a certain field which the OP does.


Gilgamesh.Samuraiking said:

You never see me commenting on rng or cor threads, because I don't have them leveled. If you don't have sam leveled, considering the complexity of some of the builds I wouldn't bother talking ***like you did to Rale, not only did you make like yourself look like a fool, but you posted it on ffxiah for everyone to see....

K

Well, let me put it this way then. Is it or is it not foolish to speak on a subject so firmly when you are not only wrong but know nothing about it? I don't consider it an insult if it's a simple fact.

Now if I called you a ***(which I'm not) and you were not a homosexual that would actually be an insult.
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 Fenrir.Tool
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By Fenrir.Tool 2010-07-24 03:04:53  
Caitsith.Linear said:
Hell, I'll even do *** Kirin VIT for shits and giggles.

Same STR during WS and TP. Kirin has 120 Vit.

WS:
Hagun: 75 + 2 + 93 = 170 * 1.975 = 335
Soboro: 40+ 2 + 93 = 135 * 1.6625 = 426

TP:
Hagun: 75 + 2 = 77
Soboro: 40 + 2 = 42 * 1.9 = 79

WS:
(335/426)*.7 = 15.4% damage advantage to Soboro.

DoT:
(77/79)*.3 = 0.009% damage advantage to Soboro.

EDIT: I used Kirin because he spams ***anyway. Soboro isn't going to cause him to spam any faster.


Pretty sure this adds up to 224.4375 >.>
Just an observation.
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 Siren.Clinpachi
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By Siren.Clinpachi 2010-07-24 03:05:46  
Bismarck.Magnumatic said:
Caitsith.Linear said:
I hate the spread of horrible information. It makes me raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage.

Arguing with a Hagun lover, is like arguing with a Theist.

lol this.
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 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-07-24 03:06:01  
Bismarck.Magnumatic said:
Caitsith.Linear said:
I hate the spread of horrible information. It makes me raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage.

Arguing with a Hagun lover, is like arguing with a Theist.

Oh, believe me, I already know. I was one of the biggest advocates for the Rindomaru 5-hit when it was completely disregarded at first. Now it's accepted as being better than Hagun by those of us who pay attention to that kind of stuff.
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 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-07-24 03:07:17  
Fenrir.Tool said:
Caitsith.Linear said:
Hell, I'll even do *** Kirin VIT for shits and giggles.

Same STR during WS and TP. Kirin has 120 Vit.

WS:
Hagun: 75 + 2 + 93 = 170 * 1.975 = 335
Soboro: 40+ 2 + 93 = 135 * 1.6625 = 426

TP:
Hagun: 75 + 2 = 77
Soboro: 40 + 2 = 42 * 1.9 = 79

WS:
(335/426)*.7 = 15.4% damage advantage to Soboro.

DoT:
(77/79)*.3 = 0.009% damage advantage to Soboro.

EDIT: I used Kirin because he spams ***anyway. Soboro isn't going to cause him to spam any faster.


Pretty sure this adds up to 224.4375 >.>
Just an observation.

Oops! forgot the *1.9 at the end there.
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 Fenrir.Tool
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By Fenrir.Tool 2010-07-24 03:08:35  
K, so it's 256.5
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 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-07-24 03:11:19  
Fenrir.Tool said:
K, so it's 256.5
Eh?

135 * 1.6625 * 1.9 = 425 (I forgot the floor the equation)
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 Bismarck.Magnumatic
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By Bismarck.Magnumatic 2010-07-24 03:11:54  
Caitsith.Linear said:
Bismarck.Magnumatic said:
Caitsith.Linear said:
I hate the spread of horrible information. It makes me raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage.
Arguing with a Hagun lover, is like arguing with a Theist.
Oh, believe me, I already know. I was one of the biggest advocates for the Rindomaru 5-hit when it was completely disregarded at first. Now it's accepted as being better than Hagun by those of us who pay attention to that kind of stuff.

For a while there.. I thought everyone was going to start disregarding Amono as a better weapon choice than Hagun!
 Fenrir.Tool
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By Fenrir.Tool 2010-07-24 03:12:06  
Okay phew, thought I was losing my mind there. Thank you for correcting it ^^
 Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-07-24 05:45:10  
Soboro is good;

But for weak stuff where you don't need the cratio buff of G/K/Y (as discussed in the OP) a 5hit pole arm is better.

When you do need the cratio boost (higher end mobs) 5/6hit OAT GKT is better.

So it maybe good, but its never ideal.
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 Cerberus.Mindi
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By Cerberus.Mindi 2010-07-24 06:22:47  
what about this? thought soboro is now totally old and if you want a multi attack weapon this is the choise :o




somehow SAM's in my LS said that the WS with this weapon or the ones before this current end weapon (68 DMG) do higher average WS's the the Radennotachi with )91(?) DMG
 Sylph.Cerilono
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By Sylph.Cerilono 2010-07-24 06:30:35  
Cerberus.Mindi said:
what about this? thought soboro is now totally old and if you want a multi attack weapon this is the choise :o




somehow SAM's in my LS said that the WS with this weapon or the ones before this current end weapon (68 DMG) do higher average WS's the the Radennotachi with )91(?) DMG


Yeah it's good but, isn't it Magian trials weapon? I heard it was pretty hard to obtain.
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 Phoenix.Degs
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By Phoenix.Degs 2010-07-24 06:37:44  
Sylph.Cerilono said:
Cerberus.Mindi said:
what about this? thought soboro is now totally old and if you want a multi attack weapon this is the choise :o




somehow SAM's in my LS said that the WS with this weapon or the ones before this current end weapon (68 DMG) do higher average WS's the the Radennotachi with )91(?) DMG


Yeah it's good but, isn't it Magian trials weapon? I heard it was pretty hard to obtain.

trial weapons arent "hard to obtain" they just take a great deal of time... the actual process of doing the trials is simply killing a certain number of mobs that would give you xp or killing a certain number of NMs.. and then they have those that you would kill say under certain conditions like "kill 200lizards under rainy weather" or something to the extent
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By Odin.Chazzyphizzle 2010-07-24 07:24:22  
Cerberus.Mindi said:
what about this? thought soboro is now totally old and if you want a multi attack weapon this is the choise :o




somehow SAM's in my LS said that the WS with this weapon or the ones before this current end weapon (68 DMG) do higher average WS's the the Radennotachi with )91(?) DMG

they eyeballed it, and were obviously wrong, unless the OAT magian weapons can proc on WS, which i'm going to go ahead and say can't happen.
 Valefor.Argettio
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By Valefor.Argettio 2010-07-24 08:05:18  
OAT doesn't proc on WS, so the WS figures will be the same as a 71 DMG GKT.

It is also possible to 5hit the Kokuhi which is another massive boost to WS frequency.
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 Phoenix.Dooom
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By Phoenix.Dooom 2010-07-24 08:11:14  
Valefor.Argettio said:
So it maybe good, but its never ideal.

Pretty much this. It can be fun as hell though, I love playing around with it /drg.

Furthermore, raging on Soboro while yourself using GS in a party is a pretty bad idea, it makes you look like either a troll, or an idiot.
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 Sylph.Rawkhawk
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By Sylph.Rawkhawk 2010-07-24 08:58:03  
Soboro might be better at merit level mobs, but why again wouldn't they be using a polearm on merit level mobs? I'm sure someone with numbers can prove the point, but I always assumed if you could cap fSTR you used a polearm?
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 Leviathan.Draylo
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By Leviathan.Draylo 2010-07-24 09:31:58  
Just people spouting ***they read off forums with no further knowledge to back it up.
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