Drake Ring... What Does It Do?

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Dragoon » Drake Ring... what does it do?
Drake Ring... what does it do?
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 Bismarck.Themuffingirl
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By Bismarck.Themuffingirl 2010-10-05 23:50:16  
I found one up on the AH, this is the level 50 latent ring that "enhances jump effects". Wiki has no solid information... personal (and admittedly sloppy) testing isn't giving me much. I am entirely unsure if it even works with spirit/soul jump, but I'm not noticing any difference at all with regular jump/high jump either. Considering they're only 1K on the AH I can't imagine it's anything spectacular, but before I NPC it for inventory+1 I wanted to hear some thoughts from the DRG community if anyone owns one of these and knows something I don't.
 Bismarck.Dracondria
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2010-10-05 23:52:25  
Latent effect: Enhances "Jump" effects

* Active while HP ≤ 75% and TP ≤ 100%.
* It is suspected that this effect enhances Jump's Vitality modifier and/or increases its critical hit rate.Verification Needed

Basically, not really worth it unless you're using spellcast I guess. Try it out yourself, go jump stuff in ronfaure and see how your damage is, if it raises it by a decent amount or not.
 Bismarck.Rinomaru
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By Bismarck.Rinomaru 2010-10-06 00:00:37  
Drake Ring is my ring :D
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-10-06 00:15:18  
I don't think anybody actually knows. I've certainly never seen any concrete information on it.
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-06 00:18:05  
Do testing!!!
 Bismarck.Themuffingirl
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By Bismarck.Themuffingirl 2010-10-06 02:07:06  
I'm certainly no number cruncher and this is a bit time consuming even with full recast merits. These numbers seem so off the wall and random to me and I know it's a small sample size but here's what I've got so far. Target is Tiny Mandragora in East Sarutabaruta. I'm on 85 DRG/RDM, first set of testing is with no gear except for my STR/attack Langdebeve +1. Note fewer High/Soul Jumps due to longer recast time.

Jump
536/515/427/535
455/542/445/383

High Jump
335/300/318/427/417

Spirit Jump
495/500/488/493
491/490/482/493

Soul Jump
482/470/481/497/502

Next group is with just the polearm and Drake Ring, used convert to drop my HP, and unequipped polearm frequently so TP stayed below 100%.

Jump
415/518/423/377
555/433/492/487

High Jump
382/366/480/493/347

Spirit Jump
502/488/493/496
472/491/485/478

Soul Jump
488/482/482/498/483

I have no idea what any of this means, it's either a piece of junk, or it actually does something else that's not in any way related to damage. I certainly don't think it gives an accuracy boost as I missed 3 jumps with the ring equipped and one without. I was thinking maybe it sheds more enmity, except I know Jump doesn't shed any enmity so that almost doesn't make sense or it would just say "enhances High Jump effects"... I have no clue. I suppose the increased crit rate is possible, but it's still looking like garbage to me after 2 days of trying it out. I'll gladly d-box it to anyone on Bismarck that wants to mess around with it, otherwise I think I'm collecting my 2 gil and inventory+1 from an NPC. I don't have the kind of patience to sit here and do hundreds upon hundreds of jumps recording all the information.
[+]
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-06 02:11:58  
What were your stats when you did that? Specifically vit.
 Bismarck.Themuffingirl
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By Bismarck.Themuffingirl 2010-10-06 02:16:29  
71 VIT, 87 STR, 80 DEX, 448 attack, 343 polearm skill.
 Bismarck.Themuffingirl
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By Bismarck.Themuffingirl 2010-10-06 02:17:48  
4/4 critical hit rate merits for what it's worth.
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-06 02:30:09  
Well I was going to compare your numbers to what should be possible bsaed on wiki formulas... but according to wiki the highest jump you should be able to get with that vit and weapon assuming capped fstr capped crit pdif and getting the full +5% randomization would be 466....

So yeah wiki isn't a reliable reference for that to properly test gunna need a much bigger sample size. I'd just do jump/high jump for recast timer reasons
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-10-06 02:36:04  
Weapon damage: 108
Weapon Rank: 12
fSTR cap: 20
STR: 87, fSTR is capped against level 0 mobs
Total base damage: 128

Highest Jump: 555

Going to assume this is a crit. VIT's contribution to Jump takes the form floor((Base Damage)*(VIT/256+1)). Your VIT was 71, new base damage is 163. Crits cap at a pDIF MAX value of 3.15. 163*3.15=513.45

If we assume that Drake Ring effect takes the form of VIT*1.5, new maximum value is 181*3.15=570.15, which brings your value within bounds.

Highest High Jump: 493

Also assuming this is a crit. VIT doesn't effect High Jump damage, so the maximum here is (in theory) simply 128*3.15=403.2, which is also below your maximum value. However, High Jump doesn't have a VIT mod, suggesting something else is at work here.

Further testing is definitely needed. If you're willing to repeat this test, please use Sneak Attack to force crits when gathering data. If we can establish an approximate maximum value, we can start to figure out what's occurring here.

Odd that Spirit/Soul Jump don't seem to be effected... That's something to look at later. Focus on Jump/High Jump for now.
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-06 02:38:55  
Holy ***I'm tired. I so read weapon dmg as 98 instead of 108... yeah that will change things a little lol.

That makes nights numbers right... though you still have some no ring jumps that slightly exceed what should be possible
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-10-06 02:41:55  
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Holy ***I'm tired. I so read weapon dmg as 98 instead of 108... yeah that will change things a little lol. That makes nights numbers right... though you still have some no ring jumps that slightly exceed what should be possible
NQ is 98 damage, you were probably just looking at the wrong version. Definitely some interesting results though.
 Bismarck.Themuffingirl
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By Bismarck.Themuffingirl 2010-10-06 02:43:50  
It shares the same wording as AF feet, and those are believed to have no effect on High Jump, correct? I'm entirely unsure about spirit and soul jump since the new AF3s have specific enhancements for those. I'll go pump out a few more, strictly stick to Jump, and see what happens. I'm a packrat and I like to find every little piece of gear that might enhance my performance and now my inventory is suffering greatly. I just wanted to get some thoughts on it to help decide if it's worth keeping, I'm personally not seeing a reason to and I also don't use spellcast, I've only used it while soloing/duoing the new high level birds they put in the mire since my HP is almost always at least in the yellow.
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-06 02:48:58  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Holy ***I'm tired. I so read weapon dmg as 98 instead of 108... yeah that will change things a little lol. That makes nights numbers right... though you still have some no ring jumps that slightly exceed what should be possible
NQ is 98 damage, you were probably just looking at the wrong version. Definitely some interesting results though.
Oh no I entered what she had up there and I just completely misread it. But yeah some of the non ring results exceed what should be maximum possible.

Also looking at the numbers she does have they seem to be way too much towards the high end. Like non crit high pdif with the randomization is around 450... and only 3/8 of them are lower than that and most not by much.

So either the formula is a bit messed up (well ok that's clearly the case cause of the high ones), or it has a really high chance to crit AND/OR to hit the higher end of pdif. If I get bored I might try normal jump testing with my thf/drg lol
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-10-06 02:57:07  
Bismarck.Themuffingirl said:
It shares the same wording as AF feet, and those are believed to have no effect on High Jump, correct? I'm entirely unsure about spirit and soul jump since the new AF3s have specific enhancements for those. I'll go pump out a few more, strictly stick to Jump, and see what happens. I'm a packrat and I like to find every little piece of gear that might enhance my performance and now my inventory is suffering greatly. I just wanted to get some thoughts on it to help decide if it's worth keeping, I'm personally not seeing a reason to and I also don't use spellcast, I've only used it while soloing/duoing the new high level birds they put in the mire since my HP is almost always at least in the yellow.
Yeah, but this obviously does effect High Jump or you wouldn't be maxing out almost 25% above expected values. I might revisit the feet but it's a pain to test since you can't use level 0 mobs and I pretty much never play DRG these days.

Discrepancy in % increase suggests it manipulates a value that occurs before the VIT factor in Jump, so either weapon damage or base damage. Even though I so rarely play DRG now I should probably look into getting one of these... wasn't practical before outside of soloing but if you have your abyssites in order you can "cancel" your HP buff when in Abyssea to force proc this.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-10-06 02:59:16  
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Holy ***I'm tired. I so read weapon dmg as 98 instead of 108... yeah that will change things a little lol. That makes nights numbers right... though you still have some no ring jumps that slightly exceed what should be possible
NQ is 98 damage, you were probably just looking at the wrong version. Definitely some interesting results though.
Oh no I entered what she had up there and I just completely misread it. But yeah some of the non ring results exceed what should be maximum possible.

Also looking at the numbers she does have they seem to be way too much towards the high end. Like non crit high pdif with the randomization is around 450... and only 3/8 of them are lower than that and most not by much.

So either the formula is a bit messed up (well ok that's clearly the case cause of the high ones), or it has a really high chance to crit AND/OR to hit the higher end of pdif. If I get bored I might try normal jump testing with my thf/drg lol
Crit distribution appears to favor high values at an unexpectedly high rate, might be true of normal hits as well but there's also sample size to take into account and we need to establish what exactly is going on here with the ring before looking at pDIF distribution or else split that off for a second test.
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-06 03:00:40  
Oh I was just referring to the non ring test lol. Forget the ring the just normal jump with just the polearm. Even those seem a bit off from what wiki says. And I think we should first have a solid base line before trying to see what the ring may or may not do
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-10-06 03:03:24  
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Oh I was just referring to the non ring test lol. Forget the ring the just normal jump with just the polearm. Even those seem a bit off from what wiki says. And I think we should first have a solid base line before trying to see what the ring may or may not do
...***, you're right. 542 Jump doesn't line up with the wiki formulas at all. Completely missed that.
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-06 03:05:53  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Bahamut.Dasva said:
Oh I was just referring to the non ring test lol. Forget the ring the just normal jump with just the polearm. Even those seem a bit off from what wiki says. And I think we should first have a solid base line before trying to see what the ring may or may not do
...***, you're right. 542 Jump doesn't line up with the wiki formulas at all. Completely missed that.
Not just that one. Litterally half of her normal jumps exceed the calculated max. Oddly enough (small sample size go?) the ring ones actually fit the wiki formula better lol. Though who knows maybe it lowers potential dmg or chance of crit to increase acc or soemthing weird
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-10-06 03:08:23  
Yeah, I see that now. Wonder if something was changed recently, after all the testing that went into the Jump formula I'd expect that formula to be more accurate. High Jump is off too though...
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-06 03:11:39  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Yeah, I see that now. Wonder if something was changed recently, after all the testing that went into the Jump formula I'd expect that formula to be more accurate. High Jump is off too though...
Well reading the wiki discussion it looks like they changed it awhile back and then retested it back in like 08... wouldn't be suprised if there isn't some really vague mention of doing something to jumps in update notes since then lol
 Bismarck.Themuffingirl
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By Bismarck.Themuffingirl 2010-10-06 03:28:03  
Here's some more numbers... this time DRG/THF using sneak attack. VIT is 72, DEX 84, STR 87, attack 448.

Jump - No Ring
617/620/630/621/637
645/638/615/631/641

Jump - With Ring
635/633/621/617/641
638/643/618/642/643
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-06 03:29:01  
Ok drg/thf using koggles since it has the highest base dmg of a weapon thf has skill with that I got so hopefully less inaccuracies from round

Weapon damage: 43
Weapon Rank: 4
fSTR cap: 12
STR: 74, fSTR is capped against level 0 mobs
Total base damage: 57


Using SA for crit. VIT's contribution to Jump takes the form floor((Base Damage)*(VIT/256+1)). My VIT was 84, new base damage is 75. Crits cap at a pDIF MAX value of 3.15. 75*3.15=236.25.

Assuming crit with low pdif and no ramdomization pdif min is 2.58.
75*2.58= 193.5

Post numbers later as they come
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-06 03:31:21  
Ok so the first 4... 479, 452, 462, 437. When I should be between 193-236.... yeah wiki is way the *** off. I'll take off my vit gear now see if it gets closer

Edit: actually I'm just gunna get a bigger sample size. See if I can get min and max to be the same ratio of min/max pdif or at least close enough that I can determine it's base dmg that is the only thing screwed up
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-06 03:52:50  
Ok I feel dumb now I'm thf main of course Dex is adding somewhere in there. Well even my 37drg should cap fstr/pdif on lvl 0 mobs gunna try again lol.

It took a 124 jump when the mob turned to point that out alot
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-10-06 03:54:17  
Bismarck.Themuffingirl said:
Here's some more numbers... this time DRG/THF using sneak attack. VIT is 72, DEX 84, STR 87, attack 448.

Jump - No Ring
617/620/630/621/637
645/638/615/631/641

Jump - With Ring
635/633/621/617/641
638/643/618/642/643
Ok, what the ***.

Comparing data sets I'm inclined to say it's either an attack or accuracy boost rather than some kind of base damage increase due to the lack of significant changes (neither attack nor accuracy would be relevant on level 0 monsters), but I can't say anything with certainty given how far these numbers are from expected values.

Gonna wait for Dasva's results to comment further on the ring, I'll try to add data when I can.
 Bismarck.Themuffingirl
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By Bismarck.Themuffingirl 2010-10-06 04:02:36  
Few more, tested some High Jumps too... not seeing anything changing..

Jump - No ring
616/618/628/632/640

High Jump - No ring
485/503/483/485/480

Jump - with ring
645/622/625/641/645

High Jump - With ring
487/483/503/480/475
 Bahamut.Dasva
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By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-06 04:04:50  
From your limited tests I'm inclined to agree with Nights att/acc boost being the most likely thing assuming there is one.

Once again I will try to get a better working formula to make it easier to compare hopefully without screwing up this time lol.

Edit: Actually don't need to cap fstr which is good cause I don't since from -stat spells as far as I can tell all the mobs have I think it was 5 or 6 to all stats. But now I'm not sure I can cap pdif lol. Wish I had drg higher. I could just do it without forcing crit on a random high lvl job.... but that would take alot more in the way of sample sizes

So I'd have to say do more tests if you want or don't. If you do I or night would work the numbers and help
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By Bismarck.Themuffingirl 2010-10-06 04:27:45  
I'll keep it for another day and drag my partner out to the mire birds and see if I can accurately record numbers with latent active. It gets a bit hectic on those since they hit like trucks but an attack boost if there is one would be more noticeable on VT mobs. Just eyeballing it before, I didn't notice any difference on the birds, but like I said, it's hectic, HP changes a lot with swapping to jump gear, and sometimes I get randomly cured by my nocturnus helm during weaponskill that I usually would follow with a jump. I also was mostly using spirit and soul jump and only a couple regular jumps, so it's possible it has no effect on the new ones at all. It's looking more and more like a trash item to me but I'll try to collect a bit more data tomorrow before I rage and NPC it. I so wanted it to be something good, lol.
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