Torcleaver Math

Hey there!
I've had Espafut +2 since shortly after the recent version update and have been playing around with it quite a bit. I'm really pleased with the WS but I can't seem to find a gear set that I'm happy with. Torcleaver has a VIT mod which isn't very practical and so I set out to do some testing on how I could increase my Torcleaver damage.

Now, I want to start by saying that I have never tried testing anything like this before so please tell me where I make mistakes or could improve. I decided starting on level 1 monsters would be best and set off to Ronfaure. These next tests were all done against Wild Rabbits using Sneak Attack just outside Sandy. My goal was to see how VIT, STR and Attack effects Torcleaver.

Naked
Target: Wild Rabbit
(STR:94 VIT:83 Attack: 477)
[Espafut +2, Sword Strap]
2748, 2730, 2815
With Last Resort: 2844

Minor VIT
Target: Wild Rabbit
(STR:94+13 VIT:83+18 Attack: 507)
[Espafut +2, Sword Strap, Byrnie, Warwolf Belt, Perle Brayettes, Spiral Ring]
3155, 2829, 2863
With Last Resort: 2936

Attack
Target: Wild Rabbit
(STR:94+14 VIT:83+3 Attack: 581)
[Espafut +2, Sword Strap, Byrnie, Forager's Mantle, Perle Moufles, Swordbelt +1, Black Cuisses, Ulthalams Ring, Aesir ear pendant, Bomb Core]
2857, 2794, 2774
With Last Resort: 2768

Major VIT
Target: Wild Rabbit
(STR:94+16 VIT:83+40 Attack: 547)
[Espafut +2, Sword Strap, Bibiki Seashell, Abyss Burgeonet, Byrnie, Soil Ring, Spiral Ring, Orcish Gauntlets, Perle Brayettes, Warwolf Belt, Forager's mantle, Power sandals, Aesir ear pendant]
3097, 3077, 3200
With Last Resort: 3051


I know it isn't a huge sample size, but from that it's pretty obvious VIT gives the biggest increase to damage. However, It didn't seem like attack gear had any effect on the WS. I thought it might be because the monsters were too low and my attack already too high. With that in mind I took my testing into Abyssea - Tahrongi and started doing the same against Decent Challenge Pachypodium only. My goal was the same and I was hoping to confirm my VIT gear as the optimal setup, but this is what I got.

Major VIT
Target: Decent Challenge Pachypodium
Atma: Voracious Violet + Stormbreath
(STR:94+86 VIT:83+90 Attack: 600)
2836, 3259, 3179, 3218, 3104

STR/Attack
Target: Decent Challenge Pachypodium
Atma: Voracious Violet + Stormbreath
(STR:94+117 VIT:83+63 Attack: 673)
3255, 3472, 3226, 3286, 3428, 2818

STR
Target: Decent Challenge Pachypodium
Atma: Voracious Violet + Stout Arm
(STR:94+171 VIT:83+30 Attack: 722)
3040, 3466, 3534, 3006, 3055, 3444

STR/Attack
Target: Decent Challenge Pachypodium
Atma: Voracious Violet + Stout Arm
(STR:94+157 VIT:83+33 Attack: 753)
2914, 3525, 3166, 3304, 3424, 3508


Honestly, this leaves me with more questions than I had before testing. I tried to leave out any Torcleavers that I was 100% sure were double attacks, but it was hard to tell with the mandy beating on me or my first hit getting countered immediately. I have no idea what to gear for now because those tests show STR might have a greater effect against higher level monsters.

Besides getting a bigger sample size, what else could I do to narrow down a better gear set?

Are there better ways to test a Weapon Skill?

Does anyone else out there have this weapon, and if so, what do you find works best?

Any help with this will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

Edit: Also, does anyone know what Gorget enhances this? The colored box in the WS menu is white so it might be Light, but it also has Distortion properties and can even make Darkness (Evis <--> Torcleaver = Darkness but Torcleaver --> Torcleaver is Light :P) so it's a little confusing.

All of those inside abyssea are forced crit with SA yea?

Yes, every one was done with SA.

I don't have torcleaver yet~ but I would think a good uneven balance of STR, VIT and attack would be much better than just focusing it all into one or two stats/atributes

Well you need larger sample sizes for one and secondly you need to have a set of controls. In every single test you have more than one variable changing. You need to keep everything static except for the variable.

In the end stacking strength will always yield the best results on these kind of WSs.

Unless the mod isn't STR. Then it's pretty stupid.

In related news, Torcleaver has a VIT mod.

Considering all WSs are subject to Pdif and Fstr.... This means that STR effectively helps two parts of the equation whereas the VIT only helps the modifier. Herpderp. Also, do we KNOW it doesn't have an str mod at all? If he doesn't then why the *** would he test STR on a level 1 mob. It would have no effect.

Considering you cap fSTR in Abyssea if you aren't a lazy jackass and have all your Furtherances (that's before considering whatever STR your TP gear has), and attack isn't hard to cap either (food and stalwart's/berserk/blah blah blah), it does nothing for a weaponskill that has no STR mod.

60% VIT. If you actually read his post, he didn't test STR on a level one rabbit (should have to verify it did nothing), only attack and VIT, and if you look at those tests (the only two that really matter) you'll see attack did nothing and VIT helped considerably.

Put STR where you can't get comparable amounts of VIT, but ignoring the weaponskill mod is HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. If you're gonna stack STR on everything, play SAM.

EDIT: For the record, Catastrophe has no STR mod either, although INT/AGI sorta sucks.

Oh so you don't ever change gear according to what you fight, ok. I guess you can reach the fstr cap on all NMs as well now? If you can then your argument is decent. I guess I am used to the days when ffxi was a real game and not a joke.

You have an Apocalypse so those days can't be too foreign to you.

Changing gear has little relevance here as most of the ***inside Abyssea doesn't have an obscene amount of VIT, and nothing outside Abyssea is even worth mentioning at this point.

It was never better to ignore your weaponskill's modifier (multihit skills with weak mods like Asuran Fists notwithstanding).

Well the only WS I recall ever ignoring a modifier on was Apocalypse. The main reason was that it was near impossible to cap Fstr and the str boost was easier to gain than +int or AGL. Overall it was rare to find a WS that didn't have a str mod.

60% VIT is a huge mod, you're pretty stupid to ingore it, especially when there's so many awesome VIT/STR combo pieces like Ares, Twilight, Spiral, ect. Since WSC2 Mods don't cap, there's never really a point where adding to the mod becomes pointless.

I don't understand wtf he is testing then. If you know it's a 60% vit mod then there is no reason to test anything.

The test was redundant. I thought linking to the wiki page on Torcleaver made that clear.

Maybe it's just a cleverly disguised "Look how azome i am i got torcleaver" post?

ffs. I wanted to do some math.

People gear for Attack > STR on Catastrophe bro.

It depended on what you fight. +STR was almost always better than +attack except for on very high defense mobs.

Ill give some good Torcleaver numbers if I finish my Great Sword next week~

Got a few more lanterns tonight seems to be going along faster than I thought, have 8 more pops that need to be killed as well.

i give myself maybe 2 weeks until i can do some torcleavers on caladgolg as well. My group doing 2x masa and 1x calad at the same time. Lanterns are going a lot quicker then expected and I'm second in line.

150 carabosse gems in a row was fun times

Was doing something simliar with a friend of mine, doing his Masamune and my Caladbolg at the same time hoping to have both done very soon~

Tempted to work on Almace for my lolPLD once I finish Caladbolg the path is very easy to accomplish as well.

Pre Gratz on your 85 GS~

Very much looking forward to mine, and to have a good excuse to play DRK again.

its kinda fun tbh. We have 3 people that wanna do almace and everyones laughing because we're doing 3 at at time no matter which path we choose.

also pre gratz, even if torcleaver isn't the "best WS ever" i still see caladbolg doing a shitton of dmg and being fun at the same time.

I've heard different things, but seen nothing, can the Occ. Deals Double Damage process on Weapon Skills for Empyreans?

Not that a negative answer would sway me from my path, but I want to know for sure. Cara(23/50) CC(20/50)

FIZGIG! <3

A bit late, but nope no procs on WS.

This weaponskill excites me...

Hopefully someone can figure it out a bit more.

what will be the ideal setup for Torcleaver? Does anyone have a gear set in mind? I was thinking about a mixed set and a set that includes full AF3+2 for the set bonus.

This WS has no ratio bonus, so attack should be a top priority. STR is also a good thing since it gives attack and fstr. I wouldn't put too much on VIT since our selection of VIT stuff really isn't that great. So let's see:

"Assume both set uses Moonshade earring with 4 attack +25 tp bonus augment"

Mixed:


STR: 66
VIT: 27
ATT: 100 (149)
DA: 8%

AF3+2:


STR: 38
VIT: 5
ATT: 99 (127)
DA: 11%
5% chance of additional damage based on HP?

Which would be the better choice? Note that DA is really meaningless for this WS since you only get a 1.0 ftp with DA. So it is really the 28 STR 22 VIT and 22 ATT vs the 5% chance to perhaps adding 50% to 100% to your WS damage.

Thoughts?

Pretty sure set bonus doesn't proc on WS. STR isn't worth as much in Abyssea since you have 90 more STR than usual just for entering the zone (cruor buffs w/ Furtherances, VV). Considering you need 80 STR over the mob's VIT to cap fSTR with the level 90 Caladbolg (less with 85) and that several of the best-in-slot VIT/attack pieces (head, body) have large amounts of STR on them, adding STR elsewhere is really only going to add attack. To that end, we take your first set and swap feet for Ares, swap hands for AF3+2 or Ares depending on pDIF, swap Spiral Ring for Terrasoul (Rajas is likely needed for xhit), and depending on pDIF swap Bomb Core for Bibiki Seashell. If pDIF is overcapped, you're probably looking at Perle for the leg slot.

DA is not "meaningless", just less valuable (~20% increase in damage when it procs). Even if set bonus does proc on WS, it'll be a <5% increase in damage overall and I'm pretty sure you're giving up more than 5% damage with those swaps. Not to mention you may have partial set bonus in my proposed set anyway.

Now that I think of it, VIT does really add a whole lot to the damage considering our D value will likely be around 129 and WSC will likely be 50-90, adding 2 VIT is like adding 1% damage to the WS. On the other hand, adding 5 attack probably won't even give 1% damage.

And are you sure set bonus doesn't proc on WS? It is hard to believe.

if you had pld

maybe that?