Ryunohige + Jumps

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Dragoon » Ryunohige + jumps
Ryunohige + jumps
 Quetzalcoatl.Volkom
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By Quetzalcoatl.Volkom 2011-01-20 16:59:53  
does the Lv. 85+ version of Ryunohige augment spirit/soul jump?
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [538 days between previous and next post]
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By Tetrey 2012-07-11 15:44:18  
it should, the jump augments from Ryu from the 85+ is acc/atk on jumps from what i've found(along with it's normal "Makes all jumps into crits")
 Fenrir.Weakness
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By Fenrir.Weakness 2012-07-11 16:02:36  
o.o wow... almost an 18 month necro.
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 Sylph.Sagiaurex
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By Sylph.Sagiaurex 2012-07-11 16:24:56  
Fenrir.Weakness said: »
o.o wow... almost an 18 month necro.

Thats gotta be some kinda necro record..
 Fenrir.Leoheart
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By Fenrir.Leoheart 2012-07-11 16:38:29  
Sylph.Sagiaurex said: »
Fenrir.Weakness said: »
o.o wow... almost an 18 month necro.

Thats gotta be some kinda necro record..

Nah I've hit 800-1k (not sure which but in that region) days before~
 Sylph.Sagiaurex
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By Sylph.Sagiaurex 2012-07-11 16:39:51  
Fenrir.Leoheart said: »
Sylph.Sagiaurex said: »
Fenrir.Weakness said: »
o.o wow... almost an 18 month necro.

Thats gotta be some kinda necro record..

Nah I've hit 800-1k (not sure which but in that region) days before~

Still pretty crazy, question answered though for the OP i guess? lol
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-07-11 17:10:14  
Given that he didn't support his claim, I wouldn't say that. As far as I know we don't know what the additional jump enhancement tiers do.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2012-07-12 01:11:07  
Well, while I still haven't figured out what the higher tiers of the "Augments Jump" effect do, I can say this for certain. It does NOT make Spirit/Soul jump auto-crit.

I did a bit of testing on lvl one mobs, and without my wyvern present I was seeing lots of non-crit spirit/soul jumps.

I also ran some DMG calcs for jump/High jump, and the dmg vs lvl 1 mobs was spot on what it should be for my stats. So it's not any kind of direct dmg boost either.

I started to test the ACC+ rumor, but getting good test data for that was surprisingly difficult/time consuming. So I never got any definitive results.

ATK+ testing will probly be similarly annoying.
 Leviathan.Korialstrasz
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By Leviathan.Korialstrasz 2012-07-12 01:18:31  
Since it augments rather than just enhancing it, perhaps it applies some form of additional effect on the mob? If it lasts longer than jump timers and refreshes itself, it could have been overlooked. Just an idea for more things that it could possibly do.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2012-07-12 03:04:10  
An unlikely possibility, imo, but not something I've specifically tested for.

Unless it both refreshes and has a spectacularly long duration, I'd think I'd have seen it wear off during testing.

I had to afk for 15 mins once during a test, after having spammed jumps on a mob. Hurray for regen atma's and me not being dead. But I didn't notice any thing in the log when i came back, and I just rechecked the parse from that test, and there's nothing on debuffs. Although, I suppose it's possible the parser might not pick it up, since it's only the wear off msg, with no applying spell.

Suppose I can go jump something then afk a bit real quick.
 Fairy.Ghaleon
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By Fairy.Ghaleon 2012-07-12 03:08:20  
i thought it added +crit to jumps (but wasn't 100% as previously thought)

thought i read somewhere that 95~99 was +40% crit to jump and only applied to jump not the new soul/spirit jumps even though they are shared timers. >.> (no idea where i read so idk D:)

also read that it was pretty much useless because soul/spirit jump was better unless situational / jump build. (again idk where i read this >.>, prob somewhere on bg if its not on here)
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2012-07-12 03:29:05  
Well, I only did a brief test on the 75 version, and though I saw no non-crit jumps/high jumps, it was a small sample size. It was more to confirm that the effect applied to high jump as well than anything.

To go back and retest the 75 ver, I'd need to hop on the test server.

The thing that has me curious, is this. In the Update notes when 99 relic/mythic/emp were introduced, they listed the stats for all the weps. With some minor notes, like the wsdmg + values.

It says this about Ryunhige:

Ryunohige Rare Ex
DMG:151
Delay:492 Augments "Jump" V ("Jump"+35)
"Drakesbane"(+30%)
Aftermath (Incl. Wyvern): Increases Acc./Atk. Occ. attacks twice or thrice
Afterglow (Increases Attack and Ranged Attack)

Jump +35? +35 what?

If that were crit rate, I'd still be seing non-crit jumps. 25% crit(merits +dDEX)+35% = 60% crit. Unless this is supposed to be ontop of the rate for the 95 ver, not the total. But if that were the case then those wsdmg values would be way off.

As for the testing you're referring to, I believe it was in a thread on these forums, but looking at said thread, the original posts seem to be missing. I think the tester retracted the tests later, although I'm not sure if he's referring to the jump tests or the ws tests. http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/27649/ryunohige/#1710229

EDIT: 20 mins after jumping a pair of mobs(jumped one, high jumped the other) I've seen no debuff wearoff msgs. IF there is any kind of debuff, it doesn't have a wear msg(or has ridiculous duration.).
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-07-12 03:31:15  
Put on 40% crit rate worth of atmas and jump on things. If you don't get a noncrit in a while, it could be crit rate.
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 Fairy.Ghaleon
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By Fairy.Ghaleon 2012-07-12 03:34:07  
do you have any crit on gear? is it in abyssea? and what was your sample size for the crit testing?

i could easily see it being +35 accuracy instead, it would be silly AF but it is SE so :s

though it would give jump a decent use if you are hard pressed on accuracy on drg(lol?)


my theory = @ 75 it made all jumps 100% crit

after the level cap they readjusted and made it a % crit increase.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2012-07-12 03:42:23  
I have quite a bit of jump parse data with the 99. I have yet to see a non crit. This with no other crit+/atmas. If the II~V tiers are crit rate +, its much higher than listed.

Mind you, I wasn't specifically testing for crit in these parses but if I was uncapped on crit rate, I think I'd have seen one by now.

Personally, I think the crit rate was already 100% at 75. But I'll have to get on the test server to confirm that. Since I was too impatient to test it before I started on trials.
 Fairy.Ghaleon
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By Fairy.Ghaleon 2012-07-12 04:20:42  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
I have quite a bit of jump parse data with the 99. I have yet to see a non crit. This with no other crit+/atmas. If the II~V tiers are crit rate +, its much higher than listed.

Mind you, I wasn't specifically testing for crit in these parses but if I was uncapped on crit rate, I think I'd have seen one by now.

Personally, I think the crit rate was already 100% at 75. But I'll have to get on the test server to confirm that. Since I was too impatient to test it before I started on trials.


well what if it gives 100% crit and the 99 gives +35% crit dmg?
shouldn't be too hard to test that out.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2012-07-12 05:16:40  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
I also ran some DMG calcs for jump/High jump, and the dmg vs lvl 1 mobs was spot on what it should be for my stats. So it's not any kind of direct dmg boost either.
It is easy to test for crit dmg+ or plain DMG+. Which is why I already did it.

Parsed on wild rabbits.
Code
Player                  Abil. Dmg  Abs'd.Dmg   Net Dmg    Abil. %  Hit/Miss    A.Acc %    A.Low/Hi    A.Avg
Martel                      20165          0     20165   100.00 %      31/2    93.94 %     526/733   650.48
 - High Jump                 5942          0      5942    29.47 %      11/1    91.67 %     526/550   540.18
 - Jump                     14223          0     14223    70.53 %      20/1    95.24 %     687/733   711.15


Since I suck at math, I plugged my/mob's stats into a dps sheet, and got this for the avg jump/high jump dmg.

Jump avg 711
High avg 525

With Jump being a perfect match, and high jump being very close despite it's small sample size I feel fairly confident in saying there's not a critdmg or direct DMG bonus.

ATK+ is still possible, as you wouldn't be able to tell on lvl 1 mobs. But I'm hoping for something more interesting than that. <,<
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 Carbuncle.Shadowreapper
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By Carbuncle.Shadowreapper 2012-07-12 06:18:21  
Did you noticed a change in tp return, or even some DA procs?
Maybe it's just something related with enmity?
Did you tryed to jump from a further distance than 10 yalms? Never knows >.>
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2012-07-12 06:28:08  
Narse did some testing while talking to me via gchat a while back, which is why the data is missing I think. We came to similar conclusions. It doesn't give any kind of damage bonus to Jump against level 1 enemies (not base damage or a % modifier), but makes it a 100% crit rate (he was still testing with a 75 version).

It's probably Jump accuracy or attack and my money is on accuracy. This is so useless that it's essentially impossible to test, but you could disprove Jump Attack by jumping EM Bluffalos in the range with a fairly low attack build and Regen atma/no DA/TA/QA. I'd just set up a script to do it for me while afk. With Jump as your only source of damage, they'd last quite a long time.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2012-07-12 06:33:06  
Carbuncle.Shadowreapper said: »
Did you noticed a change in tp return, or even some DA procs?
Maybe it's just something related with enmity?
Did you tryed to jump from a further distance than 10 yalms? Never knows >.>
I recall getting normal TP returns on my first round of jump tests. Checked TP after one jump(was normal), then accumulated tp via jumps for 10~ jumps and checked my total vs the number of jumps. Again, normal.
I didn't bother to record it anywhere since it didn't show any unusual results though.

I haven't checked for distance, Multihit or enmity.

Distance should be very simple, will check shortly. Though I feel that's a very unlikely augment.

Checking for multi hit in a yes/no sense should be easy, unless it's like ~5% then it might take a while to get a proc.

Enmity testing is a pain in the ***. I could maybe test for 1 CE jumps like spirit/soul. But I'm not about to try to quantify anything, if the Augment is a enmity reduction on the jumps DMG, or a reduction in the DRG's enmity. Too annoying, even for me.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2012-07-12 06:37:42  
Byrth, I'm testing jump acc atm. Since I finally found a way to do it that doesn't completely suck.

I can do the atk+ test next. How low a atk value are we talking? Am I gonna need atk- gear, or defender, or just no atk+ gear? Although, being /war would be annoying with the DAs messing with the jump data.

Shadow. Just checked. High jump range is still 11.5 with Ryu, and jump range is still 9.5.
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2012-07-12 06:39:18  
Just no Atk+ gear should be enough. If you keep around 500 attack, that'd be good.

If you want to check for Enmity reduction from Jump (or something) you could consider using Yagudo Heralds.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2012-07-12 06:51:35  
Ahh, nin mobs for the shadows. That would remove the random *** dmg from the tests. That would help.

But still, I think I'll test anything and everything else before I test enmity. <,<;
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2012-07-12 07:01:46  
I'd bet it's only jump and I'd bet it's Accuracy. What way did you find to test that? I'd assume DRG caps Acc on everything easily tankable naked.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2012-07-12 08:22:46  
Blinding potions. Although it's annoying to have to use them so often. And my tests are limited by my supply.

I originally went to test on EMs in abyssea, with regen atmas, blind pots, and no cruor buffs. But I found after parsing for a while that I had floored acc with blinding potions up. And due to the timers on jumps, gathering a sufficiently large sample could take more than 2 hours, and the mobs tend to delevel after a while, wasting more time while I get them back to EM.

I also had some major issues with my blindness wearing without me noticing. So i kept screwing my samples... Eventually I wrote some SC/autoexec rules to disengage me, and/or cancel jumps if I wasn't blinded.

Eventually I went to greater colibri, since they are mid-level, have known stats, and only have 1 lvl worth of lvl variation. All of a 5 eva difference. Oh, and there's plenty of them.

Even then, I couldn't just AFK and script it, unfortunately. Since they do die after a while, and I wanted a melee acc sample to compare with. Makes better use of the blind pot duration.

Continuing testing now. Might work on automating jumps once I have enough melee data to be accurate... If i could recall how many hits I need for an precise acc read anyway. <,<
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2012-07-13 09:27:25  
So, Ryunohige ACC/jump parse data.

Target: Greater colibri, lvl 81~81, eva 334~339.
Conditions: Blind potions were up full time. Same gear sets used for melee and jumps.
99DRG/DNC DEX 83 ACC -4
Code
Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg  Abs'd.Dmg   Net Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg
Martel               204483          0    204483   64.37 %   530/1219   30.30 %   30.30 %     0/512   362.90   362.90

Ability Damage
Player                  Abil. Dmg  Abs'd.Dmg   Net Dmg    Abil. %  Hit/Miss    A.Acc %    A.Low/Hi    A.Avg
Martel                     113194          0    113194    35.63 %   152/328    31.67 %     497/873   744.70
 - High Jump                34243          0     34243    30.25 %    59/104    36.20 %     497/645   580.39
 - Jump                     78951          0     78951    69.75 %    93/224    29.34 %     810/873   848.94

Well, IF there's an acc bonus, it's only on High jump. Which seems really strange. Id write off the difference between jump and melee acc and variance, since I doubt it has an acc penalty.

As for high jump, is 6% difference within range of variance for a 160 hit sample? If I kept going long enough, would thing even out? Note also, that the avg acc of both jumps is only 1.67% off from melee acc.

Also, if High jump does have an acc bonus, based on this data it'd only be +12 acc. Which would be a pretty pathetic TierV increase. And it doesn't match the +35 something listed in the update notes. I wonder if high jump itself has an acc bonus rather than this being from Ryu? Or if it's all just variance?

ATK bonus parse data

Target: EM bluffalo, lvl 99, DEF 516, VIT 118
Conditions: Regen Atmas + afk auto jump script till the mob died. XD
Wep DMG 151
STR 106, VIT 89+8, ATK 514
Note: All jumps/high jumps are crits
Code
Ability Damage
Player                  Abil. Dmg  Abs'd.Dmg   Net Dmg    Abil. %  Hit/Miss    A.Acc %    A.Low/Hi    A.Avg
Martel                     153402          0    153402    98.74 %    370/18    95.36 %     237/551   414.60
 - High Jump                38628          0     38628    25.18 %     126/8    94.03 %     237/370   306.57
 - Jump                    113774          0    113774    74.17 %    241/10    96.02 %     388/551   472.09

Unfortunately, I don't know what to do with this data. ^^; I tried plugging the stats into a dps sheet to compare, but it cause an error. In the fSTR section , I think, because the mob had higher vit than my str.

So, any conclusions from this will need to wait for the attention of someone mathy and familiar with atk bonus testing.