/mnk Fun!

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Dragoon » /mnk fun!
/mnk fun!
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-02-24 22:52:40  
Serj said:


But then comes the point of, if your base counter rate is acceptable with just atmas and the 10 counter of /mnk, wouldn't you be better off just using those atmas while using hasso? Or going *gasp* /war?


You're trying so hard to discredit credibility, you're making a fool of yourself, just so you know.

Also, maybe you forgot this in your troll attempts, but when you sub something other than Monk, you do lose Counterstance. It being dispeled is not a guarantee.

I also think you're severely underestimating the DPS addition of a 90% counter rate.
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 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2011-02-24 22:59:53  
Thats exactly my point zic.

The dps from counters is sick.

And As you said, serj is trying a little to hard to doubt a sub that Can work.

Everything has a purpose and place^^ (as in everything is useful for something)
 Sylph.Rorrick
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By Sylph.Rorrick 2011-02-24 23:07:33  
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Serj said:


But then comes the point of, if your base counter rate is acceptable with just atmas and the 10 counter of /mnk, wouldn't you be better off just using those atmas while using hasso? Or going *gasp* /war?


You're trying so hard to discredit credibility, you're making a fool of yourself, just so you know.

Also, maybe you forgot this in your troll attempts, but when you sub something other than Monk, you do lose Counterstance. It being dispeled is not a guarantee.

I also think you're severely underestimating the DPS addition of a 90% counter rate.

The gains from Hasso are being severely undervalued. Counter damage does not approach the DPS you gain from Hasso, and that's if you're the only DD. Add another person to the mob and it's no longer even a comparison. Counter damage isn't negligible but you're deluding yourself if you think it matches or even threatens the dominance of Hasso.

What you even get out of Counter depends on the delay of what you're fighting.
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-02-24 23:10:47  
Sylph.Rorrick said:


The gains from Hasso are being severely undervalued. Counter damage does not approach the DPS you gain from Hasso, and that's if you're the only DD. Add another person to the mob and it's no longer even a comparison. Counter damage isn't negligible but you're deluding yourself if you think it matches or even threatens the dominance of Hasso.

What you even get out of Counter depends on the delay of what you're fighting.


If you can find where I said Counter was better than Hasso, please show me, otherwise, shut your cockholster.
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 Sylph.Rorrick
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By Sylph.Rorrick 2011-02-24 23:11:28  
Misquote, meant for Lowblow, but the only real reason to mention Counter DPS is to draw a comparison to the DPS you gain from other subs, and /SAM will always be well ahead.

Also have to call shenanigans on 90% counter rate for anyone /MNK.
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By Serj 2011-02-24 23:13:07  
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Serj said:


But then comes the point of, if your base counter rate is acceptable with just atmas and the 10 counter of /mnk, wouldn't you be better off just using those atmas while using hasso? Or going *gasp* /war?


You're trying so hard to discredit credibility, you're making a fool of yourself, just so you know.

Also, maybe you forgot this in your troll attempts, but when you sub something other than Monk, you do lose Counterstance. It being dispeled is not a guarantee.

I also think you're severely underestimating the DPS addition of a 90% counter rate.


And I think you're trying too hard to overcredit something.

I'm not trying to troll, but people ignoring all benefits of any other subjob to support your idea of /mnk is HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. I also think your claims are way overshot.
 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2011-02-24 23:13:40  
I never said Counter out dmg'd hasso lol.
Why the hell would i go /sam to 99% of things if i thought that lol.

I simply said for solo and low man it can be more efficient. :D

But i did say the counter dps is sick, and like you said, it depend son the mobs speed. but double attack / tripple attack mobs eat it harrrrrd :D
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 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-02-24 23:20:52  
Serj said:

And I think you're trying to hard to overcredit something.


Well, I don't know what to tell you. You're an idiot, or a troll, maybe a little bit of both? Either way I can't help you.

I just hope someone doesn't discredit at least feeling out /MNK to see if it works for them in a given situation, based on your stupidity.
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By Serj 2011-02-24 23:23:40  
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Serj said:

And I think you're trying to hard to overcredit something.


Well, I don't know what to tell you. You're an idiot, or a troll, maybe a little bit of both? Either way I can't help you.

I just hope someone doesn't discredit at least feeling out /MNK to see if it works for them in a given situation, based on your stupidity.

Stupidity of myself and many others? See my edit. Your claims are unsubstantiated and overshot.
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-02-24 23:32:58  
Serj said:

Stupidity of myself and many others? See my edit. Your claims are unsubstantiated and overshot.

If you're trying to convince me that (Many) other people aren't stupid, you're going to fail, miserably.

As for unsubstantiated and overshot claims, well, we'll let history sort that one out.
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By Serj 2011-02-24 23:37:47  
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Serj said:

Stupidity of myself and many others? See my edit. Your claims are unsubstantiated and overshot.

If you're trying to convince me that (Many) other people aren't stupid, you're going to fail, miserably.

As for unsubstantiated and overshot claims, well, we'll let history sort that one out.

So be it. I'm not going to try to convince you of anything. Just don't state your opinions as absolute fact because they're just that, opinions. You can go off with your own sense of satisfaction.

Everything that needs to be stated has been. People love eyeballing things, and situation possibilities are totally the way to go.
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-02-24 23:49:55  
Serj said:


So be it. I'm not going to try to convince you of anything. Just don't state your opinions as absolute fact because they're just that, opinions. You can go off with your own sense of satisfaction.

Everything that needs to be stated has been. People love eyeballing things, and situation possibilities are totally the way to go.


You certainly didn't produce any hard evidence, so, I think there was a phrase, something about a black pot and his kettle? I dunno.
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 Fenrir.Gradd
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By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-02-25 00:29:18  
I think people are severley missing the point of MNK as a support job, YES /sam is 10x better for DD purposes, but seriously go tank something like Amphitrite War/Sam, Drk/Sam or Drg/Sam with 1 WHM, see how long full timing hasso lasts when you end up with your face in the dirt.

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 Asura.Railock
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By Asura.Railock 2011-02-25 22:13:59  
Fenrir.Gradd said:
I think people are severley missing the point of MNK as a support job, YES /sam is 10x better for DD purposes, but seriously go tank something like Amphitrite War/Sam, Drk/Sam or Drg/Sam with 1 WHM, see how long full timing hasso lasts when you end up with your face in the dirt.


My earlier post wasn't really trying to discredit the OP. He tried the combo which looks very interesting, I'm just concerned if we could get away with that in our own Linkshells. I feel for our mages lol.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-25 22:44:35  
Fenrir.Gradd said:
I think people are severley missing the point of MNK as a support job, YES /sam is 10x better for DD purposes, but seriously go tank something like Amphitrite War/Sam, Drk/Sam or Drg/Sam with 1 WHM, see how long full timing hasso lasts when you end up with your face in the dirt.

Or could just get a real tank
 Fenrir.Gradd
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By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-02-25 22:49:11  
Asura.Railock said:
Fenrir.Gradd said:
I think people are severley missing the point of MNK as a support job, YES /sam is 10x better for DD purposes, but seriously go tank something like Amphitrite War/Sam, Drk/Sam or Drg/Sam with 1 WHM, see how long full timing hasso lasts when you end up with your face in the dirt.


My earlier post wasn't really trying to discredit the OP. He tried the combo which looks very interesting, I'm just concerned if we could get away with that in our own Linkshells. I feel for our mages lol.

It works perfectly fine, and who does events with an LS anymore? I duo box alot of the ***I do DRK and WHM with /MNK sub, or do stuff with 2-3 friends, dragging 18 people to anything is complete fail these days.

If I can duo Box Drk/Mnk and WHM with no MP issues, I wouldnt see why a non Duo Boxed Whm wouldnt be fine.
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-25 22:54:11  
Quote:
/MNK sub

Don't do this.

/ indicates subjob.

/mnk
or
mnk sub.

/mnk sub = ***
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2011-02-25 22:54:36  
If the guy wants to low man and doesn't take 20 minutes per kill. Don't rain on his parade if it doesn't involve you just saying guys.

/MNK is low maint.
 Fenrir.Gradd
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By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-02-25 23:04:53  
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Fenrir.Gradd said:
I think people are severley missing the point of MNK as a support job, YES /sam is 10x better for DD purposes, but seriously go tank something like Amphitrite War/Sam, Drk/Sam or Drg/Sam with 1 WHM, see how long full timing hasso lasts when you end up with your face in the dirt.

Or could just get a real tank

I personally have no intention of leveling MNK or NIN. Do I care what other people think about that? No not really. DRK is the job that I personally have invested all my time into since Ps2 Release, and I have no intention of giving it up. I enjoy playing it and to me that is what really matters. I have other DDs, WAR, DRG, my Alt is even a 90 MNK, altho gimp to todays standards.

Using MNK as a support job lets me play Drk, and if I am duo boxing who the *** cares? Is it gimp compared to MNK as a main? Yes it is. Nobody is saying /MNK is the best thing out there, obviously its not. Does it let you tank efficiently on other jobs? Yes it does.

I respect your opinion more than most peoples on this forum Tiger, but the "Just level MNK" statement really gets old.

When I am doing stuff with friends I play WHM by choice as my useful job, or WAR when certain procs are needed.

But on my own I play DRK because I enjoy it.
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 Asura.Matzilla
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By Asura.Matzilla 2011-02-25 23:12:56  
Fenrir.Gradd said:
Asura.Railock said:
Fenrir.Gradd said:
I think people are severley missing the point of MNK as a support job, YES /sam is 10x better for DD purposes, but seriously go tank something like Amphitrite War/Sam, Drk/Sam or Drg/Sam with 1 WHM, see how long full timing hasso lasts when you end up with your face in the dirt.


My earlier post wasn't really trying to discredit the OP. He tried the combo which looks very interesting, I'm just concerned if we could get away with that in our own Linkshells. I feel for our mages lol.

It works perfectly fine, and who does events with an LS anymore? I duo box alot of the ***I do DRK and WHM with /MNK sub, or do stuff with 2-3 friends, dragging 18 people to anything is complete fail these days.

If I can duo Box Drk/Mnk and WHM with no MP issues, I wouldnt see why a non Duo Boxed Whm wouldnt be fine.

I bet you do duo box a lot with absolutely no procs nor th

but its ok cause you have counter and focus and wtf you are a big dummy
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-25 23:14:06  
Well I only said something because you're talking about how to be efficient at being inefficient when you're discussing /mnk vs /sam.

In the same sense, I could have easily said well if you get a mnk main > x10 > mnk sub > x10 > /sam
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-02-25 23:15:15  
Asura.Matzilla said:

I bet you do duo box a lot with absolutely no procs nor th

but its ok cause you have counter and focus and wtf you are a big dummy


Neither are a necessity. I did plenty of No-proc things for EAF+2 items, Key items and even a Twilight helm. Helpful? Yes, Necessary, no.

Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Well I only said something because you're talking about how to be efficient at being inefficient when you're discussing /mnk vs /sam.

In the same sense, I could have easily said well if you get a mnk main > x10 > mnk sub > x10 > /sam


/MNK SUB is only MP efficient, and nothing more. Ease of perpetuation really, that's particularly useful if you're dual-boxing and not botting. Gives you a litte more wiggle room. Not everyone has the presence of mind to dual box easily, fewer have it as a constant still.
 Fenrir.Gradd
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By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-02-25 23:15:34  
Asura.Matzilla said:
Fenrir.Gradd said:
Asura.Railock said:
Fenrir.Gradd said:
I think people are severley missing the point of MNK as a support job, YES /sam is 10x better for DD purposes, but seriously go tank something like Amphitrite War/Sam, Drk/Sam or Drg/Sam with 1 WHM, see how long full timing hasso lasts when you end up with your face in the dirt.


My earlier post wasn't really trying to discredit the OP. He tried the combo which looks very interesting, I'm just concerned if we could get away with that in our own Linkshells. I feel for our mages lol.

It works perfectly fine, and who does events with an LS anymore? I duo box alot of the ***I do DRK and WHM with /MNK sub, or do stuff with 2-3 friends, dragging 18 people to anything is complete fail these days.

If I can duo Box Drk/Mnk and WHM with no MP issues, I wouldnt see why a non Duo Boxed Whm wouldnt be fine.

I bet you do duo box a lot with absolutely no procs nor th

but its ok cause you have counter and focus and wtf you are a big dummy

Its not hard to ask a BLM friend to grellow ***for you x:
 Asura.Matzilla
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By Asura.Matzilla 2011-02-25 23:16:36  
nor is it hard to run a curebot on your mule
 Fenrir.Gradd
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By Fenrir.Gradd 2011-02-25 23:19:30  
Asura.Matzilla said:
nor is it hard to run a curebot on your mule

I use Autoexecute thx!

/tell Mule C5 /tell Mule c6 /tell Mule Haste

Works fine for me :3
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By Andylynn 2011-02-26 11:59:40  
wel for actual imput instead of a HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE post per my first one, looking at the whole counter idea, it does look like its attemptable, but looks to me like a gimp mnk trying to be something its not. i mean, ive had instances where tanks had accidental injury or death, and i was able to hold minor 1st and 2nd tier nms just fine during seal hunts as /sam.

seigan+TE was able to fend off shaula, ika-roa, and even ironclad sunderer while waiting for for my tank to unweaken, even with the dumbest of whm, so i can see if this got more attention, maybe a good mix of atmas, or gear to make it worthwhile in damage, it might be a decent idea in low man.

 Ragnarok.Returner
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By Ragnarok.Returner 2011-02-26 18:49:42  
Just to throw this in. Counter rate apparently caps at 80%, taking accuracy into account, is about 76%. Drg/mnk with GH/RL can reach 70% rate, taking accuracy into account it is only 9.5% difference. So the idea of it being severely gimper than mnk main is wrong. Is it as good as mnk? no, but it is fun to be able to play your favorite job and to be able to tank most things that a mnk/war can tank. With a decent MDT or MDB set, you are essentially only vulnerable to TP moves. And for offense output, as long as the mob is on you, your counter should make up a good chunk of what you sacrifice as /sam while offering a whole lot more survivability.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-02-26 18:57:41  
Ok, so we're looking at 66.5% vs 76% counter.

Then you have perfect counter, which gives you on average an extra 2 counters per min and not affected by counter cap (and while it's affected by 95% hitrate, with perfect counter, even if the counter misses, you still don't take damage, so can count it as a third eye).

So yes, you can survive, but it's nowhere near as good as mnk main.

So while you're already lacking defensively, you're also going to be wayyyyy behind offensively. Take hasso out of the equation and your job is ***tier compared to mnk, not only that, but you're also using roaring laughter, which is quite ***as an atma, especially if you're not using a str mod ws.

And no, counters aren't going to make up for xhit, hasso, mediate, and sekk.

/mnk is basically mnk-5
 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2011-02-26 19:01:58  
Returner has the right idea.
People on this forum are way to naive to accept anything different. If its not the "Top choice" of the "top players", its bad.

Only down side to teh survivablity of /mnk is getting almost one shotted from tp moves lol. We dont have the hp a mnk has to have coutnerstance up and ignore dmg taken lol


Btw tiger, as much as you know about the game. do you have to be a *** and compare /mnk to mnk and clearly state which is better?

Get off your high horse. No one stated it was better then mnk main. ***
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 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-02-26 19:04:36  
dood, reed primaguide. /mnk sub is best. especially for war for hp bonus

Seriously though, I don't pay 8bucks a month for the game to play itself, so *** MNK as a main job. If I want a turnkey operation, I'll go buy a carwash.
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