Gungnir Gone Wild!

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Dragoon » Gungnir gone wild!
Gungnir gone wild!
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 Shiva.Cerderic
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By Shiva.Cerderic 2011-03-23 01:39:59  
I've tried to convince my friend to look into getting a 6-hit for his drg, and he was very strict that he would not give up any haste; which i understand completely. so i've made up this set for him.

i know it's not a true 6-hit. but i can explain how it works.

492 Delay 22 STP = 16.2 TP per hit.
Spirit Jump and Soul Jump return 5 hits worth of TP
Lancer's feet +1 add 2.5 TP to Spirit Jump; Lancer's feet +2 add 5 TP.

*Without Lancer's Schynbalds, you have to swap in 5 more STP in your jump gear, for a total of 27. (Ace's Sabatons or Goading Belt work well)
(27STP Jumps)16.8 x 5 = 84 + (22STP Gear)16.2 = 100.2

*With Lancer's Schynbalds +1 you have to swap in 1 more STP in your jump gear if you wanted, for a total of 23. (Chivalrous chain is an easy fix.)
Jumps: 492 delay & 23 STP = 16.3
(23STP Jumps)16.3 x 5 = 81.5 + (22STP Gear)16.2 = 97.7 + 2.5 = 100.2

*With Lancer's Schynbalds +2 you can actually swap in LESS STP in your jump gear, but you need at least 19.
(19STP Jumps)15.8 x 5 = 79 + (22STP Gear)16.2 = 95.2 + 5 = 100.2

Drakesbane returns 1 hit worth of TP + 3 (If all hits land).
For this setup to work, you would need to WS in at least 21 STP in gear. (Which the only issue I'd see with that is full-timing the body > Twilight mail, & imo that's not too much to ask, it's still a great piece for WSing.)
(21STP WS)16 + 3 = 19
(22STP Gear)16.2 x 5 = 81 + 19 = 100

(Note: This would require all hits from drakesbane to land. But with the Acc from Gugnir and everything else, i find it a non-issue. The OPTIONAL Moonshade Earring I believe would be a good fix to any misses, if augmented with Regain. Between a few TP from Regain, and the occasional extra you'd get from Jump gear, you'd indefinitely have no problem getting 100%.)

Anything that doesn't have STP on it is interchangeable (especially Neck & Legs). This set is based on the gear my friend has, but mostly i'd like to think it's perfect, or damn near it.

Comments please :D
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 Asura.Bartimaeus
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By Asura.Bartimaeus 2011-03-23 01:43:44  
I suck at all this and don't normally like to give advice just listen, but are you over haste cap on that? Looked like it. Because if so, could you maybe opt out bullwhip for goading, and use a different grip than rose?

/shrug

Edit: You said it's based on gear he has, so nvm if he doesn't have it. :x


Edit 2: Yeah my bad on the haste cap. Got lazy and first looked at the itemset stats. Derpy derp. ;b
 Shiva.Cerderic
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By Shiva.Cerderic 2011-03-23 01:44:52  
nope that's 26%
The goading belt was my orignal idea for him, but he won't sacrifice the 2% haste.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-03-23 01:45:53  
why isn't he subbing sam?
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By seiri 2011-03-23 01:47:40  
Dead on haste cap. Hmm suggestions.

Ace's hose over homam, acc will NOT be an issue with lv90 relic.

Blitz ring to hoard, decreases the # of STP u need to WS in.

Goading in place of bullwhip, swap rose grip for pole and still increase ur STP slightly.

Only 24% haste but you should be able to WS in no STP gear aside from rajas, especially assuming moonshade is regain.

Edit: Could also swap out atheling for tactical instead of losing bullwhip or blitz.
 Shiva.Cerderic
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By Shiva.Cerderic 2011-03-23 01:49:58  
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
why isn't he subbing sam?
have you ever subbed WAR? i used to not do it. but now that i can get a 6-hit /WAR and sacrifice very little in gear, it's WAY better. The damage isn't even comparable. You should try it out sometime. Obviously a let less survivability though.
 Lakshmi.Vlorsutes
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By Lakshmi.Vlorsutes 2011-03-23 01:50:13  
If your friend can readily obtain Ace's Hose or is willing to use Battle Trophies to obtain a pair of Bestia Breeches with Haste +4% on them, he can use those in place of Homam Cosciales and free up the slot being occupied by the Blitz Ring for something like Hoard Ring (which would go a ways towards his 6 hit build) while remaining at the haste cap.
 Shiva.Cerderic
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By Shiva.Cerderic 2011-03-23 01:50:57  
seiri said:
Dead on haste cap. Hmm suggestions.

Ace's hose over homam, acc will NOT be an issue with lv90 relic.

Blitz ring to hoard, decreases the # of STP u need to WS in.

Goading in place of bullwhip, swap rose grip for pole and still increase ur STP slightly.

Only 24% haste but you should be able to WS in no STP gear aside from rajas, especially assuming moonshade is regain.

Edit: Could also swap out atheling for tactical instead of losing bullwhip or blitz.
He absolutely will not TP in less than 26% and i can explain why if you care. if not i won't bother.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-03-23 01:51:28  
Shiva.Cerderic said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
why isn't he subbing sam?
have you ever subbed WAR? i used to not do it. but now that i can get a 6-hit /WAR and sacrifice very little in gear, it's WAY better. The damage isn't even comparable. You should try it out sometime. Obviously a let less survivability though.
Also, aim should be 5-hit, not 6-hit
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 Remora.Dodu
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By Remora.Dodu 2011-03-23 01:52:19  
Shiva.Cerderic said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
why isn't he subbing sam?
have you ever subbed WAR? i used to not do it. but now that i can get a 6-hit /WAR and sacrifice very little in gear, it's WAY better. The damage isn't even comparable. You should try it out sometime. Obviously a let less survivability though.

Is this a serious post? Are you actually comparing a severely diminished attack and multi-hit increase to to Hasso?
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-03-23 01:52:49  
Remora.Dodu said:
Shiva.Cerderic said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
why isn't he subbing sam?
have you ever subbed WAR? i used to not do it. but now that i can get a 6-hit /WAR and sacrifice very little in gear, it's WAY better. The damage isn't even comparable. You should try it out sometime. Obviously a let less survivability though.

Is this a serious post? Are you actually comparing a severely diminished attack and multi-hit increase to to Hasso?
and this
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-03-23 01:53:20  
Quote:
Comments please :D
Your friend is gimp
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By seiri 2011-03-23 01:54:00  
Shiva.Cerderic said:
seiri said:
Dead on haste cap. Hmm suggestions.

Ace's hose over homam, acc will NOT be an issue with lv90 relic.

Blitz ring to hoard, decreases the # of STP u need to WS in.

Goading in place of bullwhip, swap rose grip for pole and still increase ur STP slightly.

Only 24% haste but you should be able to WS in no STP gear aside from rajas, especially assuming moonshade is regain.

Edit: Could also swap out atheling for tactical instead of losing bullwhip or blitz.
He absolutely will not TP in less than 26% and i can explain why if you care. if not i won't bother.

D/W i've met people like that. Ok...

Homam to aces or a 4% haste augmented pair of bestia.
Swap out blitz to hoard.
With regain earring you should still be able to drakesbane in just rajas and keep the 6 hit, and 26% haste.
 Shiva.Cerderic
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By Shiva.Cerderic 2011-03-23 01:56:07  
Lakshmi.Vlorsutes said:
If your friend can readily obtain Ace's Hose or is willing to use Battle Trophies to obtain a pair of Bestia Breeches with Haste +4% on them, he can use those in place of Homam Cosciales and free up the slot being occupied by the Blitz Ring for something like Hoard Ring (which would go a ways towards his 6 hit build) while remaining at the haste cap.
Yes this is something i considered, but i wasn't sure if he had them (not that they'd be hard for him to obtain.)
I don't think he's completely against the Hoard ring idea, but i'm not sure it would be an increase.
Ace's + Hoard
STR - 4
DEX - 4
Attack + 12 (not including the -STR)
Acc - 10 (not including the -DEX)
Store TP + 4

vs

Homam + Blitz
Acc + 3

Not sure what he'd be swapping in for that 4 STP, but idk if it would be worth all that.
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By Wafflechan 2011-03-23 01:56:43  

Tell your friend to gear like this, otherwise he is just being a gimp :|. He could probably free up a little of the STP for more offensive gear, but it suits his needs / desire /sam.
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By seiri 2011-03-23 01:59:09  
Shiva.Cerderic said:
Lakshmi.Vlorsutes said:
If your friend can readily obtain Ace's Hose or is willing to use Battle Trophies to obtain a pair of Bestia Breeches with Haste +4% on them, he can use those in place of Homam Cosciales and free up the slot being occupied by the Blitz Ring for something like Hoard Ring (which would go a ways towards his 6 hit build) while remaining at the haste cap.
Yes this is something i considered, but i wasn't sure if he had them (not that they'd be hard for him to obtain.)
I don't think he's completely against the Hoard ring idea, but i'm not sure it would be an increase.
Ace's + Hoard
STR - 4
DEX - 4
Attack + 12 (not including the -STR)
Acc - 10 (not including the -DEX)
Store TP + 4

vs

Homam + Blitz
Acc + 3

Not sure what he'd be swapping in for that 4 STP, but idk if it would be worth all that.

-acc isnt an issue. Cruor buffs and acc bonus JT will cap your acc on almost anything. The 35 acc from lv90 gung seals the deal. Also you will likely cap dDEX on anything with just base gear, so -4dex means squat to normal swing crits. Being able to drop more STP off WS for an improved WS set is the biggest part of the improvement.
 Shiva.Cerderic
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By Shiva.Cerderic 2011-03-23 01:59:46  
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Remora.Dodu said:
Shiva.Cerderic said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
why isn't he subbing sam?
have you ever subbed WAR? i used to not do it. but now that i can get a 6-hit /WAR and sacrifice very little in gear, it's WAY better. The damage isn't even comparable. You should try it out sometime. Obviously a let less survivability though.

Is this a serious post? Are you actually comparing a severely diminished attack and multi-hit increase to to Hasso?
and this
like i said, i based this gear off his preferences
but from personal experience, /WAR somewhat outdamages /SAM as long as your hitting haste cap and getting same #-hit setup. 10% DA is approximately 10% more damage all together. I have yet to see Hasso increase my output by 10%. That of course isn't including the bonuses from Berserk and lolWarcry.
 Remora.Dodu
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By Remora.Dodu 2011-03-23 02:00:17  
He's using a Gungnir, and adamantly refusing to sacrifice even a fraction of a percent of haste or sub samurai(which are ironically contradictory). He's going to be gimp regardless of what we tell him.
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 Bismarck.Nexdeus
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By Bismarck.Nexdeus 2011-03-23 02:00:36  
/SAM > /WAR

Also relying on Jumps for a X-hit build is even worse.
Here is a picture to help you understand:

Looks good at first, then it just fails.
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-03-23 02:02:16  
Quote:
10% DA is approximately 10% more damage all together.
Maybe with no other DA gear, but with gear/buffs it's going to be less than 10%.

Quote:
I have yet to see Hasso increase my output by 10%.
Well, yeah... because it should be improving your output by several times that value assuming you're getting buffs.
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 Remora.Dodu
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By Remora.Dodu 2011-03-23 02:04:19  
Shiva.Cerderic said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Remora.Dodu said:
Shiva.Cerderic said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
why isn't he subbing sam?
have you ever subbed WAR? i used to not do it. but now that i can get a 6-hit /WAR and sacrifice very little in gear, it's WAY better. The damage isn't even comparable. You should try it out sometime. Obviously a let less survivability though.

Is this a serious post? Are you actually comparing a severely diminished attack and multi-hit increase to to Hasso?
and this
like i said, i based this gear off his preferences
but from personal experience, /WAR somewhat outdamages /SAM as long as your hitting haste cap and getting same #-hit setup. 10% DA is approximately 10% more damage all together. I have yet to see Hasso increase my output by 10%. That of course isn't including the bonuses from Berserk and lolWarcry.

His preferences are retarded. Hasso is at minimum a 10% increase in TP damage and WS frequency, and that increase grows larger by virtue of having 25% haste in gear and Haste casted on you. The DA trait is greatly diminished with atma and other pieces of equipment.

And this is all ignoring the 20% increase in WS frequency he's sacrificing by not having an easily-attainable 5-hit.
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 Alexander.Xgalahadx
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By Alexander.Xgalahadx 2011-03-23 02:05:42  


10% double can only beat 10% haste if you're capped completely which is nigh impossible in most situations without /sam.
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By seiri 2011-03-23 02:06:13  
Shiva.Cerderic said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
Remora.Dodu said:
Shiva.Cerderic said:
Sylph.Tigerwoods said:
why isn't he subbing sam?
have you ever subbed WAR? i used to not do it. but now that i can get a 6-hit /WAR and sacrifice very little in gear, it's WAY better. The damage isn't even comparable. You should try it out sometime. Obviously a let less survivability though.

Is this a serious post? Are you actually comparing a severely diminished attack and multi-hit increase to to Hasso?
and this
like i said, i based this gear off his preferences
but from personal experience, /WAR somewhat outdamages /SAM as long as your hitting haste cap and getting same #-hit setup. 10% DA is approximately 10% more damage all together. I have yet to see Hasso increase my output by 10%. That of course isn't including the bonuses from Berserk and lolWarcry.

DA gives decreasing returns, and can also be completely wasted for tp build if it procs wrong and takes you a hit over 100%.

Honestly i have tried /war, and its NOT awful...but my results had it cleanly behind /sam. Easy 5 hit and hasso, as well as the other bonuses from /sam, outweigh /war. Even in zerg situations, the 80+ cap with sekka meant /sam still beats /war then.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-03-23 02:07:00  


/sam is 5hit, assuming you use af3+2 body, Rajas, brutal, and rose strap during ws and land 4 hits.

This isn't even calculating 1/tic from moonshade earring, so like 2-3 hits is pretty much auto 5hit if using that.

Again, if your friend subs war over sam, people should direct the official forum relic cry babies here who say emps are so easy, so they can see that morons can get relics, too
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By seiri 2011-03-23 02:08:19  
Alexander.Xgalahadx said:

10% double can only beat 10% haste if you're capped completely which is nigh impossible in most situations without /sam.

This, but in terms of overall dmg, knocking a tier off you're X hit will beat any single piece of haste gear - around 17% increase from 6 hit to 5 hit.
 Phoenix.Kirana
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By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-03-23 02:13:07  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Quote:
10% DA is approximately 10% more damage all together.
Maybe with no other DA gear, but with gear/buffs it's going to be less than 10%.

Quote:
I have yet to see Hasso increase my output by 10%.
Well, yeah... because it should be improving your output by several times that value assuming you're getting buffs.

this. 10% haste from hasso is several times better than 10% DA, even without getting haste buffs. Your friend is being foolish and stubborn by not subbing sam (also foolish to think he absolutely must use 26% gear haste, when 25% can be better depending on gear choices).
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By Wafflechan 2011-03-23 02:14:38  
It's kind of ironic how this 'friend' is obsessed with haste but completely overlooked hasso.
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 Shiva.Cerderic
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By Shiva.Cerderic 2011-03-23 02:15:51  
The difference between decimals of haste are pretty controversial, i mean the difference between 59% vs 60% is only a 2.5% increase and that's based off an entire 1% and what it would be AROUND with double march and white magic haste. But he won't TP in less, that's his decision.
Also about subbing /SAM > /WAR i'm fairly certain he just hasn't looked into it at all. Personally i've noticed MUCH better results with /WAR 6-hit > /SAM 5-hit. I'm boasting a DA build and my haste is not near capped, so i can't speak for him lol. I can see how Hasso's haste bonus would go much further with capped haste and buffs though. So i will definitely recommend that too him, but he's pretty particular.
 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-03-23 02:16:08  
Wafflechan said:
It's kind of ironic how this 'friend' is obsessed with haste but completely overlooked hasso.
Omg, you're just like great guardian. You're an elitist!
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 Sylph.Tigerwoods
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-03-23 02:16:55  
Shiva.Cerderic said:
The difference between decimals of haste are pretty controversial, i mean the difference between 59% vs 60% is only a 2.5% increase and that's based off an entire 1% and what it would be AROUND with double march and white magic haste. But he won't TP in less, that's his decision.
Also about subbing /SAM > /WAR i'm fairly certain he just hasn't looked into it at all. Personally i've noticed MUCH better results with /WAR 6-hit > /SAM 5-hit. I'm boasting a DA build and my haste is not near capped, so i can't speak for him lol. I can see how Hasso's haste bonus would go much further with capped haste and buffs though. So i will definitely recommend that too him, but he's pretty particular.

You're both gimp.

Ok guys, we're done here.

Neither of them can take advice.
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