Gungnir Gone Wild!
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Gungnir gone wild!
Drg/bst for those times that you Wyvern dies and the 20 min timer is down..so you never go without a pet.
/bst and /sam, bother good ideas! Even with /pup you can still use the automaton right? Could be something to look into!
After I spotted this thread was still going I died a little bit inside =/
Bismarck.Daffel said: After I spotted this thread was still going I died a little bit inside =/ drg/brd for when you want to sing 1 song to yourself
Bismarck.Strange said: drg/brd for when you want to sing 1 song to yourself Ragnarok.Tuvae said: Bismarck.Strange said: drg/brd for when you want to sing 1 song to yourself seiri said: He has to stack gear to achieve the 23% DA, thus there will be decreasing returns involved, making the incremental increases less and less valuable. Does not matter. If he has 100 swing (aka 0%da) and you add 23% DA you still get 123swing which is 23% more swings. the decreasing effectives comes from adding addition DA upon previous DA EG. Going from 22%da (122swings) to 23%da (123 swings) IS NOT 1% increase becaues 123 is only 0.81967213114754098360655737705% more than 122 swings. But that DOES NOT mean he is not getting his 123 swings from having 23% DA. Its simple math. And working with percentage you need to take in mind what you base is. let me ask you this if you add 25% to something how much do you need to remove to get back to base ? you would need to removed 20% that does not mean you are removing less thn you just added before. But the BASE from where you are calculating you percentages is changed. so yeah having 23% will indeed give you 23% more swings (if you have no DA TA or QA from other sources) Alexander.Xgalahadx said:  10% double can only beat 10% haste if you're capped completely which is nigh impossible in most situations without /sam. That graph looks familiar... DA will never beat haste equal on. but more DA than haste might be better for # of swings. -- edit -- also please bear in mind that the X-axis is numbered wrong you have to subtract one as the labels start from 1 to 101 and not 0 to 100. I need to fix that graph when i find my excel sheet again Seems like there is not much work to do today so ima make a simple excel sheet for ppl to plot in current DA TA WA HASTE and alternative setups and see which has the best increase in Swing Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Adding 50% DA is 50/100*100 so roughly 48% increase to DPS. 50/100*100 = 50 not 48 im posting.. because.. its fun to keep the dead threads alive..
right RIGHHHHTT?! i give it 2 more hours yet Titan.Gaiarorshack said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Adding 50% DA is 50/100*100 so roughly 48% increase to DPS. 50/100*100 = 50 not 48 Anything after the first 1% diminishes. 1/100=1% 49/101=48.5% So 49.5% if you want to be exact. your doing it wrong dark :(
if A+B=C then what is X? (0.4851485) Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Titan.Gaiarorshack said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Adding 50% DA is 50/100*100 so roughly 48% increase to DPS. 50/100*100 = 50 not 48 Anything after the first 1% diminishes. 1/100=1% 49/101=48.5% So 49.5% if you want to be exact. not compared to having 0%DA if you have 0%DA and add 50% DA you get 50% extra swings lok kits very simple 0% DA = 100 swings + 0% of 100swings = 100 swing 50% DA = 100 swings + 50% of 100swings = 150 swings 150 swings is 50% more than 100 swings 100 swings is 33% less than 150 swings however going from already having DA you get less benefits form adding DA.that where the diminish returns comes from but you don't already have DA when you calculate the ENTIRE DA if you still don't get this you either trolling or seriously need to redo 6th grade. you are using math the show the decreasing return of each individual DA compared to the PREVIOUS DA and trying to use that for when calcualting from BASE. ITS THE WRONG MATH. Yes if you're going straight to 50% from 0%. I left it to be assumed that'd you'd be adding subsequent pieces of gear up to 50% and the effect will diminish over the previous value. If it upsets you I can go and edit the post.
Edited to stop qq Titan.Gaiarorshack said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Titan.Gaiarorshack said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Adding 50% DA is 50/100*100 so roughly 48% increase to DPS. 50/100*100 = 50 not 48 Anything after the first 1% diminishes. 1/100=1% 49/101=48.5% So 49.5% if you want to be exact. not compared to having 0%DA if you have 0%DA and add 50% DA you get 50% extra swings lok kits very simple 0% DA = 100 swings + 0% of 100swings = 100 swing 50% DA = 100 swings + 50% of 100swings = 150 swings 150 swings is 50% more than 100 swings 100 swings is 33% less than 150 swings however going from already having DA you get less benefits form adding DA.that where the diminish returns comes from but you don't already have DA when you calculate the ENTIRE DA if you still don't get this you either trolling or seriously need to redo 6th grade. you are using math the show the decreasing return of each individual DA compared to the PREVIOUS DA and trying to use that for when calcualting from BASE. ITS THE WRONG MATH. Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Yes if you're going straight to 50% from 0%, there is no +50% DA available in the game, I left it to be assumed that'd you'd be adding subsequent pieces of gear up to 50%. If it upsets you I can go and edit the post. it doesn't matter the numbers of pieces you do it. if you are comparing the entire DA in a setup then you compare it agains having 0 DA. you don't even get where the diminishing returns comes from but you are just pulling out something you read without understanding the basic behind it. Does putting sage in the email line make the stupid go away?
Ramuh.Lorzy said: the *** are you so angry about HUH ? Im not angry. I am emphasizing the important parts the make the it more clearly, so people dont miss it. you prefer i use italics instead ? Titan.Gaiarorshack said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Yes if you're going straight to 50% from 0%, there is no +50% DA available in the game, I left it to be assumed that'd you'd be adding subsequent pieces of gear up to 50%. If it upsets you I can go and edit the post. it doesn't matter the numbers of pieces you do it. if you are comparing the entire DA in a setup then you compare it agains having 0 DA. you don't even get where the diminishing returns comes from but you are just pulling out something you read without understanding the basic behind it. lol okay, I can work out much more complicated stuff, but DA gains are waaaaay over my head. It diminishes over the previous value, I said I would go edit the post since you seem mad. I covered the diminishing factor earlier in the thread I'm sure. 1/100=1% 1/101=0.99 etc I said I worded that OP wrong already. QQ-> Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: lol okay, I can work out much more complicated stuff, but DA gains are waaaaay over my head. It diminishes over the previous value, I said I would go edit the post since you seem mad. I covered the diminishing factor earlier in the thread I'm sure. 1/100=1% 1/101=0.99 etc I said I worded that OP wrong already. QQ-> you kinda lost me on this one (im at work) mighy answer my be tottaly wrong so pelase bear with me you probably did but if you still say having 50% da total in gear (no matter the number of pieces) does not give you 50% more swings then its wrong that was my simple point. people before you said alot of BS about DA diminishing returns above 10% ( why 10%???) and that having 23% total DA in gear did not give you 23% more swings. im aware that going from 25% DA to 30% only gives you 4% more swings due to diminishing returns or put it this way the extra 5% DA cannot procs on the previous 25% swings already getting extra swings from DA so there the effective valua is one where you need to add the 25% to get to the value you add'ed in gear So 4% as its 4%(effective)*1.25= 5%(you added) so there is the reverse formula of how to know how much you need to add of DA to get the effective more swings you need. lol gungnir thread still alive. Im suprirsed people are still trying to use maths and not just posting random junk
Titan.Gaiarorshack said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: lol okay, I can work out much more complicated stuff, but DA gains are waaaaay over my head. It diminishes over the previous value, I said I would go edit the post since you seem mad. I covered the diminishing factor earlier in the thread I'm sure. 1/100=1% 1/101=0.99 etc I said I worded that OP wrong already. QQ-> you kinda lost me on this one (im at work) mighy answer my be tottaly wrong so pelase bear with me you probably did but if you still say having 50% da total in gear (no matter the number of pieces) does not give you 50% more swings then its wrong that was my simple point. people before you said alot of BS about DA diminishing returns above 10% ( why 10%???) and that having 23% total DA in gear did not give you 23% more swings. im aware that going from 25% DA to 30% only gives you 4% more swings due to diminishing returns or put it this way the extra 5% DA cannot procs on the previous 25% swings already getting extra swings from DA so there the effective valua is one where you need to add the 25% to get to the value you add'ed in gear So 4% as its 4%(effective)*1.25= 5%(you added) so there is the reverse formula of how to know how much you need to add of DA to get the effective more swings you need. But you don't compare 0 DA to what you have like ever. You would compare one setup to another setup with varying DA on both so diminishing returns is relevant. Though your point is right going from 0 to whatever you add gives you what you added without diminishing return. Titan.Gaiarorshack said: you kinda lost me on this one (im at work) mighy answer my be tottaly wrong so pelase bear with me you probaly did but if you still say having 50% da totaln in gear (no matter the nubmers of pieces) does not give you 50% more swings then its wrong that was my simple point. påeopel before you said alot of BS about D deimisnh retunrs above 10% ( why 10%???) and that having 23% total DA in gear did not give you 23% more swings. im aware tha goign form 25% da to 30% only gives you 4% more swings due to diminshing returns or put it this way the extra 5% DA cannot procs on the previous 25% swings already getting extra swings from DA so there the effective valua is one where you need to add the 25% to get to the value you add'ed in gear So 4% as its 4%(effecitve)*1.25= 5%(you added) so there is the reverse formula of how to know how much you need to add of DA to get the effective more swings you need. I didn't say going from 0-50% be less than 50%, nor did I mean the amount of seperate pieces you add would lower it, I said here and many other threads it's over the previous value. Same with crit hit rate/Crit DMG/fTP/attack/DMG etc, and why PDT/MDT/Haste/DW have increasing returns over previous value. I don't know who said it diminishes after 10%, but it sure wasn't me. I edited the previous post to clear confusion. I'm fully aware of how gains work. I don't know why we're arguing, since we're saying the exact same thing. Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Titan.Gaiarorshack said: you kinda lost me on this one (im at work) mighy answer my be tottaly wrong so pelase bear with me you probaly did but if you still say having 50% da totaln in gear (no matter the nubmers of pieces) does not give you 50% more swings then its wrong that was my simple point. påeopel before you said alot of BS about D deimisnh retunrs above 10% ( why 10%???) and that having 23% total DA in gear did not give you 23% more swings. im aware tha goign form 25% da to 30% only gives you 4% more swings due to diminshing returns or put it this way the extra 5% DA cannot procs on the previous 25% swings already getting extra swings from DA so there the effective valua is one where you need to add the 25% to get to the value you add'ed in gear So 4% as its 4%(effecitve)*1.25= 5%(you added) so there is the reverse formula of how to know how much you need to add of DA to get the effective more swings you need. I didn't say going from 0-50% be less than 50%, nor did I mean the amount of seperate pieces you add would lower it, I said here and many other threads it's over the previous value. Same with crit hit rate/Crit DMG/fTP/attack/DMG etc, and why PDT/MDT/Haste/DW have increasing returns over previous value. I don't know who said it diminishes after 10%, but it sure wasn't me. I edited the previous post to clear confusion. I'm fully aware of how gains work. PDT and MDT have increasing returns? Same as Haste,
1/99 = 1% 50/50 = 100% 50% PDT/MDT means you can take twice as much damage, like 50% Haste makes you attack twice as fast. Edit: Basically anything that uses deductive gains, vs additive/multiplicative gains. Titan.Gaiarorshack said: Ramuh.Lorzy said: the *** are you so angry about HUH ? Im not angry. I am emphasizing the important parts the make the it more clearly, so people dont miss it. you prefer i use italics instead ? Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: I didn't say going from 0-50% be less than 50%, nor did I mean the amount of seperate pieces you add would lower it, I said here and many other threads it's over the previous value. Same with crit hit rate/Crit DMG/fTP/attack/DMG etc, and why PDT/MDT/Haste/DW have increasing returns over previous value. I don't know who said it diminishes after 10%, but it sure wasn't me. I edited the previous post to clear confusion. I'm fully aware of how gains work. Then we totally agree ^.^ and no it was not you with the 10% I retract my "assaults" @Ramuh.Lorzy I already told why i wrote in caps. it was not "yelling" but emphazing on important parts about what we where calculating on. and about the trolling the thread did have alot of trolls in it. was hard to see if people just wanted to say something wrong just to troll the people trying to clarify Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Same as Haste, 1/99 = 1% 50/50 = 100% 50% PDT/MDT means you can take twice as much damage, like 50% Haste makes you attack twice as fast. Edit: Basically anything that uses deductive gains, vs additive/multiplicative gains. Would saying 50% PDT MDT halves your damage be correct and mean the same as this statement: 50% PDT/MDT means you can take twice as much damage. |
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