5-Hit Masamune

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
言語: JP EN FR DE
日本語版のFFXIVPRO利用したい場合は、上記の"JP"を設定して、又はjp.ffxivpro.comを直接に利用してもいいです
users online
フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Samurai » 5-Hit Masamune
5-Hit Masamune
First Page 2 3 4 ... 9 10 11
 Bahamut.Vagrua
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Vagrua
Posts: 214
By Bahamut.Vagrua 2011-08-01 17:41:40  
Valefor.Prothescar said:
I'm curious as to why you guys opt to use Twilight over varangian.
Accuracy-20
[+]
 Valefor.Prothescar
Guide Master
Online
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19329
By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-08-01 17:42:21  
Is not an issue on Fudo.
 Bahamut.Vagrua
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Vagrua
Posts: 214
By Bahamut.Vagrua 2011-08-01 17:44:35  
Valefor.Prothescar said:
Is not an issue on Fudo.
I still miss Fudos with that WS set outside Abyssea sometimes. It is not an issue inside Abyssea is what I will agree on. Varangian Helm acc-20 will severely gimp your acc on WS outside otherwise.
[+]
 Valefor.Prothescar
Guide Master
Online
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19329
By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-08-01 17:45:46  
No, no it won't. You're going to have occasional misses on 1-hit weaponskills, they're only one hit. It always seems like you miss more often when, in reality, you have a capped hit rate.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-08-01 17:45:58  
Bahamut.Vagrua said:
Valefor.Prothescar said:
Is not an issue on Fudo.
I still miss Fudos with that WS set outside Abyssea sometimes. It is not an issue inside Abyssea is what I will agree on. Varangian Helm acc-20 will severely gimp your acc on WS outside otherwise.
95% hitrate cap says hi. -20 acc may impact your ability to land additional hits (and thus it would potentially be worth considering for Voidwatch and new Dynamis), but it shouldn't be impacting the hitrate of your primary hit.
[+]
 Sylph.Zefyr
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Zefyr
Posts: 196
By Sylph.Zefyr 2011-08-01 17:50:39  
I really doubt you have 95% acc outside abyssea in new events. I don't *** around with abyssea-onry sets, and if I'm on abyssea on SAM it's only 'cause we have a lot of people at the event and the leader's letting me *** around with fudo. Anything where my presence actually matters, I'm on something that is more meaningful in abyssea.

So, acc-20 matters to me in my WS set.
 Bahamut.Vagrua
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Vagrua
Posts: 214
By Bahamut.Vagrua 2011-08-01 17:52:00  
Valefor.Prothescar said:
No, no it won't. You're going to have occasional misses on 1-hit weaponskills, they're only one hit. It always seems like you miss more often when, in reality, you have a capped hit rate.
Are we both on the same mind set of assuming mobs we are fighting aren't 90 and below outside?

Sylph.Zefyr said:
I really doubt you have 95% acc outside abyssea in new events. I don't *** around with abyssea-onry sets, and if I'm on abyssea on SAM it's only 'cause we have a lot of people at the event and the leader's letting me *** around with fudo. Anything where my presence actually matters, I'm on something that is more meaningful in abyssea.

So, acc-20 matters to me in my WS set.
And yes this.
 Valefor.Prothescar
Guide Master
Online
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19329
By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-08-01 18:01:38  
You know that Fudo gets a massive accuracy bonus, right?
[+]
 Ramuh.Austar
Offline
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: Austar
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-08-01 18:07:00  
Valefor.Prothescar said:
You know that first hit of any WS gets a massive accuracy bonus, right?
 Bahamut.Vagrua
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Vagrua
Posts: 214
By Bahamut.Vagrua 2011-08-01 18:11:07  
Valefor.Prothescar said:
You know that Fudo gets a massive accuracy bonus, right?
Regardless, Fudo can still miss and Accuracy -20 will contribute to that point and it's not like you're sacrificing much from Varangian to Twilight. I'm not gonna argue with you anymore about it. You play the way you want and I will play the way I want.
[+]
 Sylph.Zefyr
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Zefyr
Posts: 196
By Sylph.Zefyr 2011-08-01 18:11:10  
I had not heard that, and don't see any reference to it on wikia or the bg wiki. Source?

Edit: I had heard that about the first hit (just nothing about Fudo specifically), but it's still true that outside abyssea, giving up a couple STR to avoid losing 20 acc makes sense to me.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-08-01 18:14:50  
Bahamut.Vagrua said:
Valefor.Prothescar said:
You know that Fudo gets a massive accuracy bonus, right?
Regardless, Fudo can still miss and Accuracy -20 will not contribute to that point and it's not like you're sacrificing much from Varangian to Twilight. I'm not gonna argue with you anymore about it. You play the way you want and I will play the way I want.
Fixed. What part of a hard cap on hitrate is so hard to understand? The main hit is not going to miss any more or less because of acc-20 or even a Blind Potion.
[+]
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
Offline
サーバ: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
user: Ironguy
Posts: 2600
By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-08-01 18:15:38  
prothescar hit the nail on the head for masamune users basically, bar tp back piece, which i'd still use atheling mantle over unkai sugemino for, even with hasso up, but even then, many of us were debating the utility of it over atheling mantle pre-testing of [ikishoten] hasso zanshin's frequency

actually on that note, i do believe for fudo, justice torque is the best weapon skill neck, though al'taieu gorgets are a fine filler regardless
 Sylph.Zefyr
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Zefyr
Posts: 196
By Sylph.Zefyr 2011-08-01 18:17:35  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
The main hit is not going to miss any more or less because of acc-20 or even a Blind Potion.

What, are you trying to claim that ACC plays no part whatsoever in how likely the first hit of a WS is to land? BS. In abyssea, the massive DEX we have makes this effectively true, but not so much outside abyssea. Acc bonus on WSs or not, you *can* miss more than 5% of the time, and if you stack too much -ACC that will be more likely on highly evasive mobs.
[+]
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-08-01 18:18:16  
Sylph.Zefyr said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
The main hit is not going to miss any more or less because of acc-20 or even a Blind Potion.

What, are you trying to claim that ACC plays no part whatsoever in how likely the first hit of a WS is to land? BS. In abyssea, the massive DEX we have makes this effectively true, but not so much outside abyssea. Acc bonus on WSs or not, you *can* miss more than 5% of the time, and if you stack too much -ACC that will be more likely on highly evasive mobs.
The original testing (and at least some follow-up testing, I know I can dig up testing using Kaiten and Catastrophe without much trouble) was performed on THF mobs while using Blind Potions (acc-256). Would you like to retract your statement?
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
Offline
サーバ: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
user: Ironguy
Posts: 2600
By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-08-01 18:18:17  
Sylph.Zefyr said:
capped weapon skill accuracy only works 95% of the time

lol
 Ramuh.Austar
Offline
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: Austar
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-08-01 18:20:07  
Pandemonium.Ironguy said:
Sylph.Zefyr said:
capped weapon skill accuracy only works 95% of the time

lol
95% of the time, it works everytime?
[+]
 Carbuncle.Asymptotic
Offline
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-01 18:20:17  
i missed twice in a row, that means that my accuracy is uncapped right?
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
Offline
サーバ: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
user: Ironguy
Posts: 2600
By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-08-01 18:20:18  
exactly x2
 Asura.Ludoggy
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Ludog
Posts: 36553
By Asura.Ludoggy 2011-08-01 18:21:43  
More sushi
 Sylph.Zefyr
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Zefyr
Posts: 196
By Sylph.Zefyr 2011-08-01 18:23:28  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:

The original testing (and at least some follow-up testing, I know I can dig up testing using Kaiten and Catastrophe without much trouble) was performed on THF mobs while using Blind Potions (acc-256). Would you like to retract your statement?

I would love to see this testing. Maybe you can point to them doing such testing on something relevant like a high level voidwatch NM?
 Asura.Dajociont
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Jamehkun
Posts: 1932
By Asura.Dajociont 2011-08-01 18:23:56  
Ramuh.Austar said:
Pandemonium.Ironguy said:
Sylph.Zefyr said:
capped weapon skill accuracy only works 95% of the time

lol
95% of the time, it works everytime?

why must you beat me to the best comment there possible!?
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
Offline
サーバ: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
user: Ironguy
Posts: 2600
By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-08-01 18:24:37  
Sylph.Zefyr said:
I would love to see this testing. Maybe you can point to them doing such testing on something relevant like a high level voidwatch NM?

did you only start playing ffxi in 2010 at the earliest

serious question
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-08-01 18:25:26  
Sylph.Zefyr said:
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:

The original testing (and at least some follow-up testing, I know I can dig up testing using Kaiten and Catastrophe without much trouble) was performed on THF mobs while using Blind Potions (acc-256). Would you like to retract your statement?

I would love to see this testing. Maybe you can point to them doing such testing on something relevant like a high level voidwatch NM?
You don't fight VWNMs with Blind Pots on, so it's really not necessary. Use your brain.

I'll find the Kaiten/Cata data at least, give me a bit.
 Sylph.Zefyr
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Zefyr
Posts: 196
By Sylph.Zefyr 2011-08-01 18:25:29  
Pandemonium.Ironguy said:
Sylph.Zefyr said:
capped weapon skill accuracy only works 95% of the time

lol

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. That's not a real quote so I'm left thinking you're claiming that capped WS acc is different from capped melee acc? If that's true, it's news to me.
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
Offline
サーバ: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
user: Ironguy
Posts: 2600
By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-08-01 18:26:08  
whoosh
[+]
 Sylph.Zefyr
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Zefyr
Posts: 196
By Sylph.Zefyr 2011-08-01 18:27:48  
Pandemonium.Ironguy said:
Sylph.Zefyr said:
I would love to see this testing. Maybe you can point to them doing such testing on something relevant like a high level voidwatch NM?

did you only start playing ffxi in 2010 at the earliest

serious question

Ofc not. I've been playing for years. I normally avoid arguments like this because of people like you getting all uppity when someone doesn't know 100% of everything about FFXI. If it's really actually true that you can *completely* disregard accuracy for Fudo, then I'm happy to learn that and adjust my WS set. I just want to see some actual testing instead of a bunch of people going on about how everybody knows A is true and you're an idiot if you don't agree.
 Ramuh.Austar
Offline
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: Austar
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2011-08-01 18:28:31  
It's been common knowledge for years.
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
Offline
サーバ: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
user: Ironguy
Posts: 2600
By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-08-01 18:29:24  
single-hit weapon skills receiving is absurdly large accuracy boost is old, old, OLD news chief

we're talking like, early '06, at the latest

nightfyre will find it momentarily, because rest assured there has been at least one or two truly-worthwhile testing threads on the matter; i'd go look myself as well, but he's already got the leg up on me here
 Asura.Dajociont
Offline
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
user: Jamehkun
Posts: 1932
By Asura.Dajociont 2011-08-01 18:31:23  
Bolded Capital Letters. Lol.
[+]
First Page 2 3 4 ... 9 10 11