Best Role For Samurai In Abyssea

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Samurai » Best role for Samurai in Abyssea
Best role for Samurai in Abyssea
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 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2011-06-29 14:53:35  
Why lol? It's not like you're counter-tanking Shin. I haven't seen a video of anyone duoing Shin, but from a strategic standpoint, most of MNK's defensive capabilities are nullified by Shinryu's innate parameters.
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-06-29 14:56:26  
both of you should just stop while you're ahead

why would you make a lightning resist build for fulmination when you can eat that garbage even without -magic on

samurai could easily handle those things you listed (infinite cures allows you to do such things), bar shinryu since doing it without a brew's kind of a silly example in the first place, but let's throw pantokrator in place of it in this instance: the point is that it's not ideal, but monk surely isn't either
 Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-06-29 14:57:27  
Cerberus.Tikal said:
Why lol? It's not like you're counter-tanking Shin. I haven't seen a video of anyone duoing Shin, but from a strategic standpoint, most of MNK's defensive capabilities are nullified by Shinryu's innate parameters.

Pretty positive NIN+WHM can duo Shin w/o Brew. I might have done so at some point but /dori.
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-06-29 14:59:24  
Everyone knows the only duo that can take down shin without a brew is DRK and PUP. Shinryu laughs so hard he goes into cardiac arrest.
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 Phoenix.Dramatica
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2011-06-29 15:00:09  
I'm just speaking from personal experience with brulo whm war, pretty much destroys you when it does crimson roar without counters(or evasion) to save you. Pantokrator is a joke if you're not stupid. Killing shinryu without brew relies on doing enough damage to kill it at 30% without it changing into absorb mode. Doom/terror screen and just kill it before it kills you. Apademak was probably a bad example, I forgot that you can still use height difference to deal with fulm on mages. Should be doable, although painful.
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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2011-06-29 15:08:03  
Phoenix.Dramatica said:
I'm just speaking from personal experience with brulo whm war, pretty much destroys you when it does crimson roar without counters(or evasion) to save you. Pantokrator is a joke if you're not stupid. Killing shinryu without brew relies on doing enough damage to kill it at 30% without it changing into absorb mode. Doom/terror screen and just kill it before it kills you. Apademak was probably a bad example, I forgot that you can still use height difference to deal with fulm on mages. Should be doable, although painful.

I thought height difference was fixed. If this still works, how/where?
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-06-29 15:08:51  
apademak is evasive as hell when it reaches its' maximum level, and damage also takes a considerable cut, but regardless, i don't see how even a drk and whm duo couldn't eventually kill it, as long as the player(s) aren't idiotic is all

i've done bruloface as sam (was too lazy to change, was just popping my t3 for a friends' souls), and that thing was a joke to face tank basically, even outside of -physical gear (though obviously put it on for tp moves); i threw pantokrator into the mix for kicks, since he destroys brulo's face, and even still he couldn't kill a sam/drk/etc with a whm backing them, as long as (once again), the player(s) knew what they were doing
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-06-29 15:09:24  
Sylph.Systematicchaos said:
I thought height difference was fixed. If this still works, how/where?

works right by #7, but the melee need to be near the bottom side of the ramp; i'd post a screenshot, but i don't have any that provide a good enough emphasis on where
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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2011-06-29 15:12:45  
Pandemonium.Ironguy said:
Sylph.Systematicchaos said:
I thought height difference was fixed. If this still works, how/where?
works right by #7, but the melee need to be near the bottom side of the ramp

So melee down below and mages up near port 7?
 Phoenix.Dramatica
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2011-06-29 15:13:25  
Eh, have found brulo to be one of the only NMs that could actually take me from 4k hp to ~300 in one hit. I think that was reason enough to throw it in. Completely destroyed my ukon war friend with spamming cure5/6 nonstop the one time I did it with a war. Easy fight regardless, just fairly dangerous to duo.
 Phoenix.Dramatica
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2011-06-29 15:13:57  
Sylph.Systematicchaos said:
Pandemonium.Ironguy said:
Sylph.Systematicchaos said:
I thought height difference was fixed. If this still works, how/where?
works right by #7, but the melee need to be near the bottom side of the ramp

So melee down below and mages up near port 7?
Just stun it, this is all hypothetical ***. Should never need to deal with fulm if you have one good stunner.
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-06-29 15:14:07  
Sylph.Systematicchaos said:
So melee down below and mages up near port 7?

not RIGHT BY seven, but i mean that general ledge to the left when you port in from seven
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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2011-06-29 15:17:57  
Phoenix.Dramatica said:
Sylph.Systematicchaos said:
Pandemonium.Ironguy said:
Sylph.Systematicchaos said:
I thought height difference was fixed. If this still works, how/where?
works right by #7, but the melee need to be near the bottom side of the ramp
So melee down below and mages up near port 7?
Just stun it, this is all hypothetical ***. Should never need to deal with fulm if you have one good stunner.

May as well do both.
 Phoenix.Dramatica
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2011-06-29 15:19:09  
It's pretty annoying to take that extra time each kill to pull it to the ledge. Especially since you need to kill it so many times...
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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2011-06-29 15:21:49  
Phoenix.Dramatica said:
It's pretty annoying to take that extra time each kill to pull it to the ledge. Especially since you need to kill it so many times...

Eh I won't argue with that.
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-06-29 15:27:58  
Doesn't that only work because the actual distance is just naturally greater than the range? It's not actually height exploitation like that ultra-lulzy Amuhluk stuff.
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 Phoenix.Dramatica
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2011-06-29 15:40:40  
It's minor height exploitation, you can't be in cure range and out of fulm range otherwise.
 Phoenix.Kirana
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By Phoenix.Kirana 2011-06-29 15:41:30  
Odin.Zicdeh said:
Doesn't that only work because the actual distance is just naturally greater than the range? It's not actually height exploitation like that ultra-lulzy Amuhluk stuff.
I think the amhuluk issue was that the programmed height of the NM was shorter than the cliff, which means his aoe's simply did not reach that high. They simply made his height bigger. On any NM that you can get high enough (or "far" enough), you should be able to avoid its aoe's. The ramps in uleg allow you to get quite high above Apademak.
 Phoenix.Dramatica
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2011-06-29 15:45:41  
The update that fixed ironclads/amhuluk exploit just increased the amount of height required. (Stuff in dynamis-bastok will now aggro easier from above/below for example)
 Bismarck.Helel
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By Bismarck.Helel 2011-06-29 16:03:39  
I've grabbed a fully leveled apademak from a wiped group before (with linkshell) and I honestly noticed no -dt whatsoever, or any increase in evasion. I really don't think it increases his stats at all. Seems just to increase frequency of fulmination.

@zicdeh, it's obviously height exploitation if you consider the fact that the mages can still heal the melee and not get hit by fulmination. Fulmination has a range of 30' which is much larger than normal casting range. If they were at the same range, but on the same level as apademak, they would get hit by it. Not saying it's wrong to do it or anything, but you're most definitely exploiting height to your advantage.
 Odin.Zicdeh
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By Odin.Zicdeh 2011-06-29 16:11:07  
Bismarck.Helel said:
I've grabbed a fully leveled apademak from a wiped group before (with linkshell) and I honestly noticed no -dt whatsoever, or any increase in evasion. I really don't think it increases his stats at all. Seems just to increase frequency of fulmination.

@zicdeh, it's obviously height exploitation if you consider the fact that the mages can still heal the melee and not get hit by fulmination. Fulmination has a range of 30' which is much larger than normal casting range. If they were at the same range, but on the same level as apademak, they would get hit by it. Not saying it's wrong to do it or anything, but you're most definitely exploiting height to your advantage.


I always thought Aderpamak's Fulmi was only 20'. My bad.

Phoenix.Dramatica said:
It's minor height exploitation, you can't be in cure range and out of fulm range otherwise.

I wouldn't even call it exploitation. Sure, Amuhluk's was exploitation, but this just makes tactical sense.
 Leviathan.Quetzacoatl
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By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-07-01 15:12:42  
it's okay guyz, I heard SAM will be King DD again with Zanshin and Store TP update plus new Skillchain JA! Amirite!?
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-07-01 15:15:13  
will be outside, but being the best dd doesn't even matter anymore when the only relevant outside content isn't even about killing, it's about playing guess who with whatever you're fighting in an attempt to find out what tickles its fancy, which then overall makes warrior once again more preferred due to a larger array of weapon skills available to the job

final stagger xi
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 Leviathan.Quetzacoatl
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By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-07-01 15:18:16  
I see, So yes and no. >.>
 Pandemonium.Ironguy
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-07-01 15:21:23  
well i mean, judging by your initial comment, you were probably under the impression samurai was bandwagoned pre-abyssea just because it was overrated, which it in fact stomped every other melee in every single situation (with a polearm on merit/einherjar/dynamis/etc, gk for hnm) bar dl/kv/bv2 zergs basically (kclub drk ahoy), but as i said, the game's no longer about who can deal the most damage, it's about who can do the stupid weapon skill that does 5 damage and who can't
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By Blazed1979 2011-07-01 23:05:56  
SE have milked the "!! weakness" gimick enough for 1 lifetime.
This entire game is being reduced to a stupid gimick.
its like playing *** hangman or X/O... its 1 dimensional, its cheap, its pathetic, its been milked to hell and back.
I hate this company.
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2011-07-01 23:40:05  
Pandemonium.Ironguy said:
well i mean, judging by your initial comment, you were probably under the impression samurai was bandwagoned pre-abyssea just because it was overrated, which it in fact stomped every other melee in every single situation (with a polearm on merit/einherjar/dynamis/etc, gk for hnm) bar dl/kv/bv2 zergs basically (kclub drk ahoy), but as i said, the game's no longer about who can deal the most damage, it's about who can do the stupid weapon skill that does 5 damage and who can't

Stomped is a strong word...Warrior(/SAM) was strong long before Abyssea and MNK was pretty comparative (arguably better) for Salvage.
 Bahamut.Aeronis
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By Bahamut.Aeronis 2011-07-01 23:40:11  
Blazed1979 said:
SE have milked the "!! weakness" gimick enough for 1 lifetime. This entire game is being reduced to a stupid gimick. its like playing *** hangman or X/O... its 1 dimensional, its cheap, its pathetic, its been milked to hell and back. I hate this company.
The exit door is that-a-way.
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 Pandemonium.Ironguy
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By Pandemonium.Ironguy 2011-07-01 23:55:32  
Siren.Kyte said:
Stomped is a strong word

it is strong, but so were five-hit +2k pentas non-stop in einherjar/salvage/dynamis thanks to a majority of relevant content being weak to piercing

war/sam was definitely the runner up by far compared to the rest of the crowd (though still beaten on everything bar bones), but even then, you'd compare the defensive capabilities of each back at seventy-five and it'd immediately become one-sided in samurai's favor; the best war/sam could hit back then in -physical gear was 26% without terra's and dring, meanwhile samurai would hit 31% without terra's/dring, all while not wearing slow% gear

then of course, there was magic reduction, which once again was pretty obvious as to who had the better hand-up over who, but this is all beside the fact that even if there was a war with all the according gear, raging rush sucked bad on hnm content, meanwhile sam could just go along their way to khimaira immediately after einherjar without even having to swap jobs

as you can see, i miss old-ffxi, but, time goes on, and 31 damage freezebites seemingly become more important than top-of-the-line damage
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 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2011-07-02 00:42:06  
I guess if you're looking at it from the defensive side then your argument makes sense; SAM could get PDT/MDT easier and lost much less when going /NIN.