Camlann's Torment

To anyone with Rhongomiant, how does Camlann's fair in Voidwatch, particularly compared to drakesbane? Thank you, any input is appreciated.

I have the 85, it doesn't do well at all compared to Drakesbane or Geirskogul for that matter.

Rhongomiant is strictly for the use of it's ODD effect. You stock your TP, gain the aftermath then go back to Spamming Drakesbane. Rhongomiant currently sits in my Storage however, until I complete further trials to finish testing and comparing.

On the flip side, the ODD effect is insane with how frequent it is on everything.

Rhongomiant is really just for the ODD like said before, it will ***all over drakes though with the weaponskill.

I have lvl 90 rhongomiant, and it does decent dmg to voidwatch nms. The key is to build 200-300tp before event starts and let tank build hate, then use torment. 300tp triple dmg ws that ignores defense is not bad. In all honesty, I alternate weapons depending on the mob we fighting. Most high defense mobs I use langdebeve+3 with weakens defense+15%. Party overall dmg> my single ws dmg.

The weakens defense proc on Langdebeve and all other types of Additional Effect: Weakens defense weapons, do not stack with Angon nor with any BLU Magic Def Down spell.

All the triple damage WS means is 3.0fTP modifier, like Sonic Thrust, but Sonic Thrust can probably do a lot more damage anyways. Sonic Thrust fTP is also not static, the higher the TP for it the more damage it does.

Spamming Camlann's after 300% is wasted potential.

I did not say spam. Building tp on too weak mobs before event starts is not wasted potential. Open with 300tp camlanns and enjoy 90 secs of ODD, then simply ride on drakes. For mobs such as the vw vampyr with ridiculous defense I use the def down lance. Im well aware that it doesnt stack with angon or blu spell, but the proc rate is insane almost ensuring 90% defense down time. But to answer your question, camlanns is not better than drakes at all.

He's only high defense if your group starts with full buffs, and your pld is popping defender. He absorbs multiple buffs at once, and becomes very high defense. He even absorbs Phalanx. I only thought you were spamming it since you stated that the ws was decent for actual use other than ODD.

I understand what you mean though, when it comes down to voidwatch though as it starts you don't really get the option of saving TP to 300%, if it's Polearm you have to use what you haven't used before and proccing ODD on it isn't a viable option because you don't want to kill things before you cap out lights.

So unless it's a fight where you can't proc ANYTHING, that 300% TP probably won't even get used at all. If your group doesn't care about Atmacite, Drops, Periapts then yeah 300% TP zerg is the way to go, but that's just an utter waste of time if people need something from the fight.

Exactly. Compared to my kannagi (where u get tp fast enuff to actually keep odd up fulltime) I feel like rhongo was a waste of.my time.

Hey it's not wasted time. It's a good weapon, it's just intended to destroy. Same for all other weapons that have devastating aftermath. They aren't utilized in Voidwatch.

Zerging is a waste of time, and 'ideal' conditions for damage are simply not necessary. If anything, you have a high damage weapon, which can make something dead when you need to. That doesn't have the ability to cause the monster to spam disgusting abilities back to back, while performing very well with that same high damage output at a Hit Per Hit:Ws per WS:Mob TP tri-ratio.

I would however just simply say ditch the Langdebeve. No point, you have Rhongomiant. Angon 5/5 is your friend, nothing zerged requires more than that.

sry off topic but these "weak def+15" weapons weak the def by -15% and not just -15? and how high is the chance to proc the effect?

I believe these are 15% chance to proc the weakens defense.

Reason being would be some of the weapons that are found with Augments or weapons that gain augments from FoV, Chests. Have things like Add. Eff Slow +3-8- etc. Which were found to be proc rates.

The weakens defense is anywhere from: 9-15%. Easy test would be to test on a charmed player, or some PVP content like Brenner, or Ballista.

Gungnir Def Down at 75 was -19.7% according to being used on a charmed player. Haven't really done any testing to see what it is at this point, or tested in another area outside of that.

Acid Bolts are somewhere around 9%, and anything BLU related is around 10-15% or so I think... 15% might be too much. So that's a ball park.

I find it hard to believe your Nin gets tp faster than your Drg

I have this weapon, and although I don't have any tests to prove it, I will say that the proc rate varies greatly based on the difficulty of the enemy. On EP or TW it seems to proc about 30-40% of the time when its down, and on anything higher, it still feels to bottom out around 20%. Definitely can agree that without an lolangon rotation, this weapon will keep def down almost constantly.

Iirc it was proven at 75 when totm came out that the weakens defense is 15%, and the proc rate is 45%. Ive been using this weapon for a long time, and I can assure u, its well more than 15% proc rate. Ill have to search, but I believe its in a very old thread in the drg forums on this site.

Edit: the poster above beat me too it, but is correct. On vw mobs (did the vampyr and cactuar ones, and also the big worm) the proc rate was still 45%, would reapply almost immediately after wearing (lasts 30 secs). The wekeans def-15 is 15%, basically a watered down but constant angon.

Double edit: I dont.think it works vs wind based mobs iirc. Above poster may also be correct in stating the proc rate lowers slightly as mob level increases. I just pulled it out to upgrade it to +3 for vw and have been using it consistently in place of rhongo, since we usually go for all procs and I dont need a zerg weapon.



Final edit:
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/12420/angons-status-after-langdebeve-addeff-defense

Let me rephrase that. Drakesbane is a drg best friend. Therefore it is ws of choice. On nin, hi is top contender. The problem lies in that. On nin you would spam hi...therefore infinite AM. On drg, I can get 100tp in way less time, but I must use a inferior ws to keep AM up. I can onshot bats and birds in mis coast aby with drakes. Camlanns? Never seen it. 300tp cams? 3 drakes down the drain. Blade hi spam, am never goes off.

Thanks for all the responses. As I'm getting near the end of the chloris trial, I've been trying to justify doing rhongo over verethragna. I know vere is the superior weapon, but I prefer playing drg over mnk. My hopes were that Camlann's would perform well on more difficult content, like VW. It's a shame that we have to sacrifice a lot of drakes damage just to keep the aftermath up every 90 seconds.

12.5% actually iirc.

I just helped my buddy complete his 85 rhongo. I have actually been quite impressed with his cam numbers. He actually had the WOE version long before his rhongo and developed a build for it way before the empy was done. We actually just did some Jeuno T1/2 voidwatch last night and his camm were matching or beating his drakes avg by a smidge (parsed not eyeballed).

I personally know its not because his drakes build sucks, as we are both long time drgs and his sets are almost identical to mine. His cam set is actually quite good. (And galka vit helps him :P)

I know a few other drgs with rhongo, and quit frankly, they have NO idea how to gear for it. My friend + another rhongo drg were in the same party. Its sad how bad a player can make it look next to someone that can gear it right. Get a proper set for it. You cant just gear it like drakes and expect decent numbers.

I was actually quite surprised at his camm perfomance since he got rhongo. To be fair, this was without any cor/brd buffs etc. Obviously, the more atk related buffs you get, the more drakes stacks the deck.

A final note, dont listen to anything about camm in abyssea and think that makes the WS suck. Anything that doesnt crit sucks in abyssea period. Outside abyssea is an entirely different game. Yes cam sucks in abyssea. Thats like bitching about tachi gekko or spinning slash in abyssea. Yeah its gonna suck. Once you take off RR and fight something outside the playground, camm stands up much better. Theres more to life than abyssea, and eventually we will all not give a rats *** about abyssea.

If you like drg more than mnk, then dont sweat it. Rhongo isnt the epeen fest like ukko, but its solid, and really is underated because everyone obsesses with crit WS in abyssea. The game will continue to move away from abyssea in teh future towards 99 and all the blade hi nins will wonder why they bothered with kanaggi :P

Thanks Aanalaty. Yeah, I'm aware that drakes will wipe the floor with camlann's inside abyssea, but I think the abyssea crit-fest is starting to come to a close. Glad to hear that it can perform solidly outside. On a Camlann's gear related note: for head, hecatomb cap +1 with vit +5 and 4 double attack augment, or twilight helm? Or is there a better option altogether that I'm missing?

lol :Hi is sick outside abyssea as well.

Sure. When it crits which is...

*5%merits
*5% minimum
*0-15% from dex
*~10% estimated from teh WS itself (unless someone has specifically tested crit rate bonus from blade hi, im going to assume its the same as Evis/RR which actually were tested. Havent seen any crit WS tested over 10%, but this is an assumption non the less)
*XX% from crit RATE gear you WS in.

At best, if you load up on dex gear instead of str/atk/agi gear JUST for crit rate, you will have a ~35% crit rate.

Blade Hi is ONLY good if the 1st big FTP boosted hit crits. Outside abyssea, 1 out of 3 of your blade hi's will be anything to right home about.

So yeah, ill stand be my previous sentiment with a new caveat.

Blade Hi is meh outside abyssea unless it crits on the 1st hit which requires loading dex gear instead of damage gear and still wont get over 1 in 3ish that will be notable.

Yeah blade hi still gets nice screenshots, but teh avg damage isnt really all that impressive once you toss in the other 2/3 that dont crit on FTP hit. Without that 85%+ crit rate in abyssea and free capped dex from buff/atmas yes, blade hi goes from exceptionally solid and consistent to notoriously inconsistent.

That said, if there is testing that shows Blade Hi has some rediculous crit bonus, I am always happy to go back on my word in light of new information, but until i see a crit rate test, I can only assume it is the same as other crit tested WS.
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I actually had no idea heca cap could get a vit augment so i never considered it O_o

If the +atk and +vit augments dont share the same augment slot and you could get vit 5, atk10, DA4 that would be really nice.

Unfortunately i dont have a straight answer for you because of the atk differences. I dont have any information regarding even a guestimate about how much def camm ignores. Without that piece of information, anything comparing atk vs another stat on cam is guess work at best ; ;

I can tell you that 2str and 4DA beats 5vit on twilight handily. What I cant tell you is how much the 25 atk closes the gap without any info on the ignores def trait :S

On anything weak-ish where the ignore def trait caps your atk, the heca cap are guaranteed better. On some absurd Pld HNM mob or something, the 25atk+5vit on twilight would probably win. But i cant tell at what point they pass each other up without some ignore def stats :S

If anyone has ANY info at all about how much def Camm ignores, it would make gearing so much clearer. Until then, we can only really compare Str/Vit/Multi atk gear accurately. The value of atk gear is fuzzy until then :(

My gear sets are on my page, im quite certain I gear it properly. Cam doesnt suck, not at all. I like the fact tht I can solo light easily and the raw dmg it does. It even does fairly well in vw. I just expected more from it. In any cass, it IS a solid weapon so by all means go for it.

Camlann's Torment functions almost identically to Wheeling Thrust, aside from a few points:

fTP: Wheeling Thrust (1.75) | Camlann's Torment (3.0)
WSC: Wheeling Thrust (50% STR) | Camlann's Torment (60% VIT)
Properties: Wheeling Thrust (Fusion) | Camlann's Torment (Light/Frag)
*Given Rhongomiant, Camlann's Torment activates ODD aftermath.

In that sense, CT functions as a superior version of Wheeling Thrust for anyone who can get their hands on a mildly decent build. Is it Drakesbane? No. Will it ever be Drakesbane? No. Does it have its niche use? Yes.

I'm proud of my 90 version, and thankful to the friends that put in their time to help me attain it. CT being relatively static damage on just about everything has already had its fair share of use when I do play the game, and making Light/opening ODD in the times where I can find that feasible is always a pleasure.

In terms of Voidwatch, to answer the OP, I've not done it enough to get hard numbers. All the fights I've participated in, heavy DD were set to the side unless needed to proc or kill-mode was called. I'd *imagine* on the higher DEF/EVA targets, you'd see a better chance at a decent CT number over Drakesbane. Of course, this may change with new gear/levels/etc. We'll see. :)

I totally respect this response, Kyo. This is exactly how I have to refer to Redemption (vs caladbolg). I would imagine that CT is *** on VW. Also, it is a creature that still triggers aftermath. If you use Camlann's for every single ws, then you're an idiot. If you evaluate the situation and use it when it's prudent, I wholeheartedly respect you having the lance.

Said it better than I could.

Something interesting to note, the use of /THF did make a comeback on monsters like Hahava as well as a few others. There are some monsters that are worth punishing down once you cap out lights, or at the very least white.

However, chances are that unless you have every single job which would be quite unpractical in your alliance, the monster will more than likely be close to death as is.

The gear used for Camlann's at least a huge majority of it already comes packing with a ton of ATK, STR, and VIT. There is no real out of the ordinary build outside of the ideal pieces you can wear for it, capping ATK on it would infact be simple due to all of the gear that does in fact have a ton of ATK on it already.

Twilight Helm: 32.5 ATK, Ares's Cuirass: 33 ATK, Lancer's Cuissots: 24.75, Atheling Mantle: 20 ATK. That alone is 110.25 ATK.

Gorget, and Elemental Belt are king for single hit WS.

The new gear that has been released this update is a lot of DRG related items, that do give a ton double attack which is nice because for a single target not crit WS the big focus tends to be DA, Damage, WS DMG+% and those make them shine big time.

However, whenever you do increase something like double attack which isn't a static variable it's always going to reflect: higher spike, lower average (Since obvious sacrifices have to be made which will lower your average damage). Unless of course the DA is very, very high in which case you will see both your average and your spike raise drastically.

More refinements will come for Empyrean, Relics and Mythics. At 99-100(Camante posted on official they may raise to 100 if enough want it gogo100!) At those levels, gear will also gain refinements, Ares's +2?! So, still, again, it's too early to say which weapon will put out more.

The OP simply asked how useful it was in VW. While it's a great zerg weapon, the point isn't to zerg in VW. It's to be tactful, and organized while understanding lights>all.

What?

Don't think he means on drg.

Don't be so sure.

Shocking isn't it? The loss of Hasso, that 5 hit, that glorious TP spam that isn't utilized in voidwatch ; ;!! NoOOooOOooOoOOoooOooOOOoOOOoooOOOOOoooOoooOOoOoOoOooOOOoOoOOooOOoOOoOOOOooOOOoOOooOoOOoOOoooOoOOooOOoOoOooOoOOoOoOoOooOoOOooOOoOoooOoOOoOO.

However, that aside. Yep it's actually quite practical. You wanna proc on him, a lot. By the time you're done, he's at around 30% HP left. Unless you get -really- lucky.

/THF is decent for some quick spikes, since you don't want to stay on him murdering due to AOE spam. It's a different strat, however acceptable for it.

Edit: It works for DRG, lol. Works for SAM as well. Hahava isn't a monster you TP spam on. He isn't shy to one shot dds. Is it really that shocking? /SAM is definitely applicable to him, but it's useability on him is limited by your hit points, and your mages MP.

What's a Fanatic's Drink?

Also, I hear /SAM gets this nifty JA called Meditate that increases your WS frequency.