Message From The Admins

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Message From the Admins
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 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2011-11-03 18:49:06  
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Doesn't seem so much to be the reason he was banned tbh, but whatever. It's done.
No, I think it's important to explain ourselves here. "Because we said so" isn't a good enough reason to ban someone and I don't expect you guys to accept it as such. Flion was banned because he had a long history of ignoring polite requests to abstain from certain behavior, ignored warnings, ignored topic bans, was temp banned, perma banned, reinstated, and generally sucked up so much moderator and admin time trying to clean up his mess (an example of which was Krizz's post) that it wasn't worth keeping him around anymore.
Ok well thank you for that, and again I really don't care about the banning itself so much as how it was presented in that thread. It seems wholly unfair and is not easy to justify any part of the thread besides the reason that he was banned.

Still waiting on those who share this view to respond to my previous post. I am very very interested to hear what you have to say.

Ramuh.Sagittario said: »
Tell me, those of you who are up in arms over this... if you are so against what has taken place regarding Flion, why was there an overwhelming support (including many of the names here) for the mods/admins when they used the exact same procedure against Vigor...?
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-11-03 18:49:14  
Asura.Fondue said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »

Nobody is harassing Flionheart post-mortem bro, your friend threatened to blackmail a moderator of this website and clearly none of you have any problem reposting everything he says so it would have come out one way or another

dont be stupid man, every one of your last posts is taking this whole situation way out of hand over a completely justified removal of people from this website

such a dramaqueen lol

You are one of the most ignorant people I've ever seen in my life. Read my damn posts a little more carefully next time.
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2011-11-03 18:49:40  
For those attempting to stand by the admins and say they are simply above the rules, so everyone needs to just deal: that is not true.

I do not teach my mods that they are above the rules, and if they ever imply as such, we need to talk. So thank you for the attempted backup, but you're not helping.

FAR more often, the mods are simply not capable of reading every post, examining every complaint, observing every PM, and mediating every dispute.

They are human beings and only capable of evaluating and responding to the information that is within their sphere of observation, and making their best attempt at remaining consistent within that sphere. That is all we can ask of them.

This often means that posts get removed in page 1679 but are not removed in page 1611 even though they're basically the same post. People read into this and spin long drama-filled narratives to explain away the favoritism that they perceive, when there's almost always a much more simple explanation.

There have been violations of this consistency and we are working on it. Dredging them up again when I've already fallen on my sword multiple times and promised to improve it doesn't help anyone.

But the point of my original post is that this forum is a partnership. We need to be consistent, polite, and professional from our end. We have improvements to make in this regard.

But by the same token, you guys need to step back and breathe, because a lot of the perceived drama, favoritism, and he-said-she-said stuff that's going on is just overblown and not within the prevue of either the admins or mods to follow.
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-11-03 18:49:51  
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Doesn't seem so much to be the reason he was banned tbh, but whatever. It's done.
No, I think it's important to explain ourselves here. "Because we said so" isn't a good enough reason to ban someone and I don't expect you guys to accept it as such.

Flion was banned because he had a long history of ignoring polite requests to abstain from certain behavior, ignored warnings, ignored topic bans, was temp banned, perma banned, reinstated, and generally sucked up so much moderator and admin time trying to clean up his mess (an example of which was Krizz's post) that it wasn't worth keeping him around anymore.

Ok well thank you for that, and again I really don't care about the banning itself so much as how it was presented in that thread. It seems wholly unfair and is not easy to justify any part of the thread besides the reason that he was banned.
I mentioned this in one of my edits (which, given the pace of this thread, is likely to be missed). Flion had a habit of dragging ***out into the open. I can easily recall a couple of cases where he posted PMs without context, nevermind the other info he gathered on people. If he really wanted this out in the open it would have happened eventually regardless, but in a much uglier fashion. Or maybe not if there's really that much backlash in here, idk.
 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-11-03 18:50:02  
Asura.Hit said: »
Ramuh.Vinvv said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
This is the most ridiculously stupid argument I've ever heard in my life. What good is a moderator if all of the users leave because the moderators are misusing their god-given virtue of being above the rules?
There's too many atheists about to be claiming God, Nancy.
;)
it's Jaerik-given virtue if anything.

This is a sensationalist statement in the fact that not all the users will leave, probably just the stupid ones.
I think people come and go either way and they don't leave in droves because of anything done on FFXIAH...more likely SE would be the reason people leave in droves if anything lol.
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-11-03 18:50:30  
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: »
For those attempting to stand by the admins and say they are simply above the rules, so you guys need to deal with it: that is not true.

I do not teach my mods that they are above the rules, and if they ever imply as such, we need to talk. So thank you for the attempted backup, but you're not helping.

FAR more often, the mods are simply not capable of reading every post, examining every complaint, observing every PM, and mediating every dispute.

They are human beings and only capable of evaluating and responding to the information that is within their sphere of observation, and making their best attempt at remaining consistent within that sphere. That is all we can ask of them.

This often means that posts get removed in page 1679 but are not removed in page 1611 even though they're basically the same post. People read into this and spin long drama-filled narratives to explain away the favoritism that they perceive, when there's almost always a much more simple explanation.

There have been violations of this consistency and we are working on it. Dredging them up again when I've already fallen on my sword multiple times and promised to improve it doesn't help anyone.

Sir, moderation is not being disputed. It's fully understood, by myself anyway, how moderation works and the limitations and whatever else the argument is being misconstrued as. My qualm was with the presentation of the thread in question. Nothing more, nothing less.

Again, I will reiterate for those who seem to have trouble reading full posts for the hundredth time: I am not sympathizing with Flion. It could have been anyone.
 Ragnarok.Neonracer
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By Ragnarok.Neonracer 2011-11-03 18:50:44  
Quetzalcoatl.Xueye said: »
As I'm to understand, every time that someone is banned there is a post explaining why so the rest of the community does not do the same thing.

Why is this any different?

Exaclty what I said above. Nothing is different here.
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By Nevill 2011-11-03 18:52:09  
Nevill said: »
I don't care either way. However, the majority of users who would even give a damn have seen the thread, so why not delete it and end the argument?

I quote this because it has not been answered.
 Asura.Fondue
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By Asura.Fondue 2011-11-03 18:53:33  
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
You are one of the most ignorant people I've ever seen in my life. Read my damn posts a little more carefully next time.
surely you can delve that from my 3 posts in this thread
[+]
 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-11-03 18:54:05  
Nevill said: »
Nevill said: »
I don't care either way. However, the majority of users who would even give a damn have seen the thread, so why not delete it and end the argument?

I quote this because it has not been answered.
Because for the most part it still follows their previous modus operandi.
also, he did answer it, just not directly to you:

Lakshmi.Jaerik said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Doesn't seem so much to be the reason he was banned tbh, but whatever. It's done.
No, I think it's important to explain ourselves here. "Because we said so" isn't a good enough reason to ban someone and I don't expect you guys to accept it as such.

Flion was banned because he had a long history of ignoring polite requests to abstain from certain behavior, ignored warnings, ignored topic bans, was temp banned, perma banned, reinstated, and generally sucked up so much moderator and admin time trying to clean up his mess (an example of which was Krizz's post) that it wasn't worth keeping him around anymore.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-11-03 18:54:16  
Nevill said: »
Nevill said: »
I don't care either way. However, the majority of users who would even give a damn have seen the thread, so why not delete it and end the argument?

I quote this because it has not been answered.
The memory of the thread still exists and can be communicated, that wouldn't solve anything.
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By Nevill 2011-11-03 18:55:03  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Nevill said: »
Nevill said: »
I don't care either way. However, the majority of users who would even give a damn have seen the thread, so why not delete it and end the argument?

I quote this because it has not been answered.
The memory of the thread still exists and can be communicated, that wouldn't solve anything.

Yes it would. People are arguing that the thread shouldn't be there. delete it and it won't be there.
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2011-11-03 18:55:16  
Nevill said: »
Nevill said: »
I don't care either way. However, the majority of users who would even give a damn have seen the thread, so why not delete it and end the argument?

I quote this because it has not been answered.
It's a fair enough request. I've nuked the thread.

I still do not disagree with its posting, as posts explaining bans were specifically requested by users.

But it seems this thread more than covers for it anyway.
 Asura.Braego
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By Asura.Braego 2011-11-03 18:55:39  
Cause and Effect people... It's not hard to understand.
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 Carbuncle.Valmur
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By Carbuncle.Valmur 2011-11-03 18:55:45  
Prob should just lock this, went stale 5 pages ago
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By Nevill 2011-11-03 18:56:17  
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: »
Nevill said: »
Nevill said: »
I don't care either way. However, the majority of users who would even give a damn have seen the thread, so why not delete it and end the argument?

I quote this because it has not been answered.
It's a fair enough request. I've nuked the thread.

I still do not disagree with its posting, as posts explaining bans were specifically requested by users.

But it seems this thread more than covers for it anyway.

That's fine; as I said, I don't care that it was there. But it is causing drama, and we like a drama-less environment.
 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-11-03 18:56:19  
Quick someone make sphere of observation a MEEM image!
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2011-11-03 18:56:45  
Carbuncle.Valmur said: »
Prob should just lock this, went stale 5 pages ago
I'm inclined to agree.
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-11-03 18:57:22  
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: »
Nevill said: »
Nevill said: »
I don't care either way. However, the majority of users who would even give a damn have seen the thread, so why not delete it and end the argument?

I quote this because it has not been answered.
It's a fair enough request. I've nuked the thread.

I still do not disagree with its posting, as posts explaining bans were specifically requested by users.

But it seems this thread more than covers for it anyway.

Apologies if for some reason my argument wasn't clear; the problem wasn't that the thread told why Flion was banned, it was the unnecessary drama bits.

In any case thank you for your time and understanding on this matter.
 Fenrir.Stiklelf
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By Fenrir.Stiklelf 2011-11-03 18:58:18  
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: »
Our moderation is short-staffed. It has been for awhile. This is mostly due to the fact that everyone I have approached about the job who I feel is qualified (I can share my requirements later if you're interested, but that's another post) has turned me down.

Just wondering J man, what qualifications do you look for? :O
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-11-03 18:58:23  
I agree with Prothescar in that the thread went far beyond simply explaining why he was banned, though again I don't necessarily think it inappropriate given the circumstances.

Carbuncle.Valmur said: »
Prob should just lock this, went stale 5 pages ago
Agreed. This will go nowhere right now, let things cool off.
 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2011-11-03 18:58:56  
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: »
Nevill said: »
Nevill said: »
I don't care either way. However, the majority of users who would even give a damn have seen the thread, so why not delete it and end the argument?
I quote this because it has not been answered.
It's a fair enough request. I've nuked the thread. I still do not disagree with its posting, as posts explaining bans were specifically requested by users. But it seems this thread more than covers for it anyway.
Apologies if for some reason my argument wasn't clear; the problem wasn't that the thread told why Flion was banned, it was the unnecessary drama bits. In any case thank you for your time and understanding on this matter.

I'm guessing the reason you won't answer my post is because you can't?
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-11-03 18:59:16  
Ramuh.Sagittario said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Lakshmi.Jaerik said: »
Nevill said: »
Nevill said: »
I don't care either way. However, the majority of users who would even give a damn have seen the thread, so why not delete it and end the argument?
I quote this because it has not been answered.
It's a fair enough request. I've nuked the thread. I still do not disagree with its posting, as posts explaining bans were specifically requested by users. But it seems this thread more than covers for it anyway.
Apologies if for some reason my argument wasn't clear; the problem wasn't that the thread told why Flion was banned, it was the unnecessary drama bits. In any case thank you for your time and understanding on this matter.

I'm guessing the reason you won't answer my post is because you can't?

It's because I'm ignoring you.
 Lakshmi.Jaerik
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By Lakshmi.Jaerik 2011-11-03 18:59:35  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
I agree with Prothescar in that the thread went far beyond simply explaining why he was banned, though again I don't necessarily think it inappropriate given the circumstances.

Carbuncle.Valmur said: »
Prob should just lock this, went stale 5 pages ago
Agreed. This will go nowhere right now, let things cool off.
It sounds like we're all on the same page, then.

Thank you all for taking the time to read my post and offering your input. I appreciate it.
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