Drg Attack

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Dragoon » Drg attack
Drg attack
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 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-12-29 08:00:17  
Sylph.Knala said: »
Ragnarok.Ashman said: »
What does Ryuno do for jumps? Someone said that it was insta crit on regular jump at one point. Then someone said that it was insta crit to all jumps. Recently I heard it was just a vastly increased chance to crit (although the new jumps wouldn't benefit as much with wyvern out, right?). Does Ryuno affect each jump differently or is it really only benefit on regular "jump"?
was under the impression the virtue of the dragon wisker was level 3 aftermath procing on jumps, aka oa2-3

That's true. I was referencing the "augment jump" though.

Lakshmi.Aanalaty said: »
Playing Thf and Drg as my mains for the greater part of 8 years, i am rather comfortable with increased speed mechanics in exchange for atk. Atk can come from buffs/meds/etc. But raw TP and DOT speed are harder to make up for than just simply atk. I am quite content to keep the speed and gain enhancements to speed like reduced jump timers for ridiculous TP spam even if it means low atk. On easier content or zergs with stupid amounts of buffs, drg will be awesome. Everything else, we still hold our own because of our TP speed. Im not really gonna sit here and be all 'woe is me' about drg. Drg has always had an underated amount of potential. If people want to downplay drg, i say let em. Means less nerfs to how OP im am :P

I was drg4lief since NA release. I went through every endgame event bypassing other jobs focusing solely on drg. I had the severe "napolean complex" and would repeatedly try to "anything you can do, I can do better" the sam/mnk/war who would call me "loldrg". I'm not putting words in your mouth, but I'm not some random person tripping into this thread to "downplay drg". I'm also completely pleased with this update. I do feel that drg is lacking these days and this is a most welcome addition.

I cannot agree with you on all your points in their entirety. The "attack speed" comment doesn't ring true in my head. The only speed boost drg gets is subbing sam and hasso'ing full time. I can cap melee haste (on other 2 hand jobs) with similar delay weapons, while maintaining 5-hit, while making far less gear sacrifices. I can also do it with ~150-300 more attack. When fully buffed my drk literally has double the attack of my drg, with 2 seperate ways to get JA haste. Hell, I could sub warrior, and have even more attack, while still maintaining 10% more ja haste than drg 71% of the time.

I didn't wanna be the stereotypical FFXI player and *** about getting a buff. I made a joke about wanting more attack that was really only half joking. Someone called me on it and I felt the need to explain how i felt about it.
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 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-12-29 08:03:41  
That being said: Abyssea has for the most part caused me to "hang up" drg finally. I started using war for procs because it made more sense to bring that as one of the 3-4 jobs. I detest war with a passion so I fenagled coming as drk instead. That love affair blossomed into me being on DRK ~95% of my gameplay time (dnc or thf for dynamis, or filling a slot in a VW if they already have drk). I am literally on drg once a month, if that, these days.

I just wanted to be genuine and honest about that :/
 Titan.Bomber
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By Titan.Bomber 2011-12-29 09:14:28  
Ragnarok.Ashman said: »
That being said: Abyssea has for the most part caused me to "hang up" drg finally. I started using war for procs because it made more sense to bring that as one of the 3-4 jobs. I detest war with a passion so I fenagled coming as drk instead. That love affair blossomed into me being on DRK ~95% of my gameplay time (dnc or thf for dynamis, or filling a slot in a VW if they already have drk). I am literally on drg once a month, if that, these days.

I just wanted to be genuine and honest about that :/
So you are happy w/ the ukkon nerf lol? speaking of DRK wouldn't mythic scythe outdo empy and even maybe apoc? w/ the OA 2-3 last resort and hasso? i know in abyssea spamming 2-3 600+ dmg crits would be awesome BTW im a DRK too
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-12-29 09:22:09  
Titan.Bomber said: »
So you are happy w/ the ukkon nerf lol?

No, I'm indifferent. I took Redemption over Ukon, so in a way it's a relief over the butthurt I would otherwise be experiencing. It still sucks to see anything nerfed in ffxi because we so rarely get anything "broken". I think the only time I ever felt something was overpowered was when the 2H was first buffed and it was like 1.1 attack for every str.

Titan.Bomber said: »
speaking of DRK wouldn't mythic scythe outdo empy and even maybe apoc? w/ the OA 2-3 last resort and hasso? i know in abyssea spamming 2-3 600+ dmg crits would be awesome BTW im a DRK too

Yes. Especially with a better "between aftermath trigger" ws that we have now.
 Lakshmi.Aanalaty
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2011-12-29 11:10:09  
im generally OK with an atk drawback for drg. Quite frankly, the only thing preventing drg from being the best DD in the game (on high en content) is atk related. Remove the atk penalty on drakes. Give us some type of zerk function natively and we would probably be the strongest DD in the game.

I dont think we NEED to be the strongest DD in the game. Thats why (in other thread) i said I was fine with going speed over atk.

Think about this for a second, who are we really 'behind' by any notable amount? Ukko wars. The strongest DD in the game WITH a 'super' weapon. Occasionally a good relic/empy dark. Again. Strong DD with strongest weapons in the game. I havent EVER heard anyone complain about loosing to a raging rush spamming War or a spining slash/guillotine dark. Or a gekko spam sam. Really guys. We can beat down just about everyone BUT very good empy/relic people.

I havent had to much experience with a good sam with the new shoha stuff yet, so i wont comment on that.

So a drg can keep up with any non-empy/relic top DD. Why on earth should we do more than Ukko wars as drg with a bland weapon? Do we 'deserve' to beat out strong DDs that have put in the time to have the super weapons? I dont think so. I like my 700+ free heals every 60 sec. I like my ability to just hit a macro and disapear off the hate list while the ukko war eats dirt. We have more than just pure POWA so to loose to a job that has nothing but POWA and has a friggin empy to boot, thats fine with me.

Ill start bitching if i just get blown away by every tom *** and harry with and 85 doubling my damage when i have my mythic 95. If thats the case then, yeah, ill be complaining. But for stock drg to loose to empys and relics on jobs that do nothing but directly hirt things? Thats how it should be IMHO. We got a drawback. Ill keep my low atk if i can keep my heals and hate shedding and acc. (its sad how bad drk acc is these days :S)
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 Odin.Skeero
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By Odin.Skeero 2011-12-29 11:38:38  
If they wanted to give drg a boost but keep us "baranced", they could make a 3min ability where it restricts our wyvern from doing breaths but give us like 10% JA haste or a small attack boost. Would restrict our survivability like berserk and last resort basically, but give us more dmg potential.
 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-12-29 12:45:56  
I tried to derail the derail to no avail.- sorry skeero.

Lakshmi.Aanalaty said: »
*Well thought out and worded reply*

I guess I'm more discouraged at the scale of improvement on drg. I prided myself on being one of the best, if not the best. The problem was that I still felt like only slightly better than average as far as all DDs go. At 75 cap i felt I could rival other DDs in any event whereas now I feel that me on drk/war/sam will beat me on drg 9/10 situations. I think the problem with that is attack rating. Either way I still love drg when I get to play it. I still plan to make relic +2 head and feet and go solo for a couple hours to have quality time with Ember. I just don't get that same "you're going to have to really bust your *** to beat me in the parse" feeling I did on drg over the years. I remember popping meat dishes every 3 birds in a GC camp having fervent competition with the shellholder (tomoe sam) back in the day. I never had more fun trying to keep my numbers up (or ate more stacks of food).
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By Odin.Skeero 2011-12-29 12:48:31  
Ragnarok.Ashman said: »
I tried to derail the derail to no avail.- sorry skeero.

Its all good. Glad drg forum is getting some action. Actually decent discussion going on. Instead of the loldrg i get everyday of my life lol.
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 Ragnarok.Amador
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By Ragnarok.Amador 2011-12-29 16:29:24  
I just can't agree that DRG is fine at all. Unless you're a decked DRG the Average Samurai will beat your face in. Jump recast is an indirect speed boost, okay. I see that.

Are you mainly defending that because you will be having a Ryunohige soon, and you view that as a greater opportunity to apply that free speed to your arsenal? Of course.

However, I'm not contesting that. I'm contesting that, when it comes down to it you can't compare what DRG has to other jobs it's different.

I'd be hard pressed to find a DRG who isn't geared well to -NOT- lose to a Generic Widowmaker Warrior that has a 5 hit. Now take that in for a moment.

Warrior: DA+12%, Berserk(ATK+25%), Blood Rage(+20% Crit DMG +20% Crit Rate), Warcry 9% (Attack), Restraint, Retaliation, Crit DMG +8%

Samurai: Everything.

Dark Knight: Speed? This *** has speed. Last Restort? I mean, you don't even have to mention the other *** this job has, but let's do a bit. Soul Eater, Scarlett Delirium, Attack Bonus 6, Crit Dmg +5

Maybe we're discrediting what being geared well means?

But in reality DRG is up against that above, compare the stats, the traits, the bonuses. DRG didn't get the short stick?

We've been riding the "Drakesbane" train since it got adjusted. We've recieved Attack Bonus II, which was cute. However, not cute enough.

It's sad that they can do so much with DRG yet they don't. That's the main disappointing line. Ever play another MMO from these guys that had DRG in it?

Tell me those characters weren't some of the best.

In VW 99 - which won't be the end all end game content fyi, you don't cap attack with your Stalwarts Tonic, with Berserk and Warcry you don't cap it with Attack Bonus VI, and you don't cap it with Chaos Roll or Minuet V.

DRG is behind how much on the attack scale compared to those jobs? Do the math. That's the only point I'm making.

If you're content with "speed", you're not playing a very speedy job. That extra jump that we can put in, get's -so- covered by other jobs in what they can put out.

And fyi, every tom *** and harry does have an 85 currently named Ukonvasara that will pretty much double your damage.

This isn't speaking Abyssea.
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-12-29 16:54:42  
It's a start. I'm happy to have a drg update that actually makes a difference. Looking back at the job, I'd say its doing better than ever.

The gap is still wide and improvements need to be made but I'll take what I can get as I can get it. Though I'd rather them buff drg than gimp anything else any more.

Replacing drake's att penalty with an att boost like basically all of sam's ws get would be a nice start.

So what is it that you think drg needs next? Traits? More att bonus? Crit bonus? New or adjusted Gear?
 Ragnarok.Amador
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By Ragnarok.Amador 2011-12-29 17:01:26  
I'd say Traits, More ATK Bonus(But this won't be as nice as a direct ability that gives ATK)

Crit bonus, yes and no. It'd be strange.

As for new gear, that'll come in time.
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By Odin.Eikechi 2011-12-29 17:11:16  
Ragnarok.Amador said: »
Tons of butt hurt

Ok, now let me address his accordingly. 1) You don't even account for wyvern dmg, with the right gear, actually *gasp* adds up.
2) Sam: Everything? Please, be butt hurt some more lol
3) RCB's do wonders for a drg's attack. Invest the gil and maybe you'll see a difference in your own performance?
4) Blood rage is actually being nerfed to not boost crit dmg AT ALL, so you might want to look at dev notes before you cry about a certain game mechanic. And its an ability that affects drg as well since its AoE and our top WS is a crit WS. So mentioning BR at all, is pointless.
5) Also, I think you're downplaying the acc bonus drg gets. It does loosen up builds to a degree.

Edit: Welcome adjustments and lil boosts as you get them, cuz they add up. I'm gonna be loving HB4
 Ragnarok.Amador
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By Ragnarok.Amador 2011-12-29 18:05:40  
I think you're down playing things that actually matter just to get pointless things across.

Name a job currently suffering from accuracy in the game?

RCB? What part of attack doesn't even cap with it and buffs is so offensive?

Invest the gil? I have. I bet you will having HB4 and using it when you solo those oh so soloable things and ... oh wait. Things that don't matter in the end. Right.
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-12-29 18:50:58  
Well, regardless of what anyone think matters in the end, drg's ability to solo is going to be a knock against them being on par with other pure dd jobs. That's just a result of how SE thinks. Barance!!!!

It's like allocating merits. You can't merit full str and full vit.

Even if acc isn't an issue, we still have more than most jobs so we get the shaft on other things. But if a super evasive mob comes around, we would have a bit more of an advantage.
 Ragnarok.Amador
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By Ragnarok.Amador 2011-12-29 19:26:37  
I just can't agree with the conformity and the comfort around it.

It's like "Well, we're gimp because we have a Wyvern that does damage."

Okay.

BST has multiple pet's that far exceed the power our pet.

PUP's pet is actually -smart- and effective when considering pet damage.

Granted: BST and PUP are not as strong a Dragoon. However, you can't say they don't solo 100% Better.

Lastly it's not as if DRG can gain access to these things via ANY sub. We're doomed to a mage sub which no one intelligent will use at an actual event.

Having the access to Restoring Breath sure is nice, and being able to control Smiting is good too.

However, at this point why does that even remotely seem applicable?

Abyssea? Better off with Samurai sub and Atma of the Mounted Champion spamming Seigan -_-

Voidwatch? Lol. No.

Oh, soloing... stuff? like... what?

Dynamis?... why? So you can pull 60 coins a day and feel accomplished while a BST DNC THF Pull 150+? Horrible.

I'm not trying to bash, I want to see as much application as I did for it at 75 when it was utilized for -something-

Now it's just REALLY lack luster. "You can solo better"

What?
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 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-12-29 20:45:56  
Ragnarok.Amador said: »
BST has multiple pet's that far exceed the power our pet.

PUP's pet is actually -smart- and effective when considering pet damage.

Granted: BST and PUP are not as strong a Dragoon. However, you can't say they don't solo 100% Better.

Not quite sure what point it is that you're trying to make using these examples. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Both pup and bst are not as good dd's because their pets are far stronger, have more utility or are able to be quasi-controlled. They excel in other areas but a drg will wipe the floor with them in damage even without a pet and honestly, on mage sub too.

I do agree with some of the points you make and I'm not saying it's properly balanced at this point. I think drg could use some boosts in their DD prowess. But I'm honestly not expecting to get much more.
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By Ragnarok.Amador 2011-12-29 21:19:26  
I was just showing the difference in those balances as you stated.

I don't feel DRG pet is strong enough to be a justified reason to say: DRG can't excel more in the DD category because they have this blue rat that hits NMs for 20 damage.

I think it's redundant, and shouldn't be used as a "PS2 Limitations" type deal with DRG. It's starting to sounds exactly like, "DRG limitations"

The correlation with BST and DRG pet is that BST pets do like 300 damage to monsters and NM per hit. They aren't weak by any means.
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By Odin.Eikechi 2011-12-29 21:35:19  
Ragnarok.Amador said: »
I was just showing the difference in those balances as you stated.

I don't feel DRG pet is strong enough to be a justified reason to say: DRG can't excel more in the DD category because they have this blue rat that hits NMs for 20 damage.

I think it's redundant, and shouldn't be used as a "PS2 Limitations" type deal with DRG. It's starting to sounds exactly like, "DRG limitations"

The correlation with BST and DRG pet is that BST pets do like 300 damage to monsters and NM per hit. They aren't weak by any means.

Did you perhaps mean a different word here? Also bst pets do dmg, but that's all they do. Dmg or tank (in some cases). They can't heal you (with the exception of lucky lulush, but she's kinda meh to DD). Wyvern can heal AND DD (see deep breathing/smiting breath)
 Ragnarok.Amador
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By Ragnarok.Amador 2011-12-29 21:42:02  
In application against actually difficult enemies is what I mean, not in application against fodder.

And perhaps I could replace that word with dumb. Either way it works.

Redundant:
1.characterized by verbosity or unnecessary repetition in expressing ideas; prolix: a redundant style.
2.
being in excess; exceeding what is usual or natural: a redundant part.
3.
having some unusual or extra part or feature.
4.
characterized by superabundance or superfluity: lush

I think the idea is repetitive, stupid, and old. It works. Dumb works too.
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2011-12-29 22:37:34  
Believe it or not, acc does play a role these days. I have multiple parses of drks (ones i know personally are very good and know their gear isnt crap etc) parsing 20-30% lower hit rates than myself. They have ZERO acc boosting abilities. Their gear is ridiculously atk/str heavy and acc/dex light compared to ours etc.

Amador, he may be downplaying the bad stuff, but you are seriously downplaying the good stuff drg has going for it and dismiss every benefit we DO have and ignore it.

I have been parsing my linkshell events off and on for years (since we were 75 and then some). There is a particular war in my LS that has been at the top of the curve in gear and playstyle. He has been a paragon of warrior excellence as long as i have known him. To put it bluntly hes the best war i have ever known at 75 and still is to this day at 99 with his mighty Ukko and everything. I have similarly been at the top of the drg pile during this time as well. We always had a friendly rivalry. (it started in ein :P)

Long story short, virtually every parse (with the exception of zergs before OAT lance existed. Was fine after that) was mr super war #1 and me nipping at his heels since 75. Individual bumps and junk if someone died or something funky happened, but almost exclusivly war #1. Me a close second on drg. Ever mob from JoL to Tier 1 Ein smash fests. This continued at lv 80. 90. 95 etc with a few bumps along the way.

Bump 1: OAT lance introduced at 75. I edged him out.
Bump 2: Ukko arrived! Initially beat the pants off me.
Today: I have edged right back to where i was at 75. 1 step behind him. 1 small step. You can discount the speed all you want, but the new jumps combined with OAT lance have brought me back up to par.

VW parses are shifty anyways if you have to stop and proc stuff making them rather bad benchmarks.

Quote:
If you're content with "speed", you're not playing a very speedy job. That extra jump that we can put in, get's -so- covered by other jobs in what they can put out.

And fyi, every tom *** and harry does have an 85 currently named Ukonvasara that will pretty much double your damage.

The dont blow me away NOW. They edge me out now. I doubt every ukko on the server is going to notice my mythic POWA in a week or so when i get it and decide to 'get serious' and put me in my place.

I have been nipping at the heels of the 'best' DDs in the game for years. A buff in the realm that you are asking for would push us into the #1 slot or at least vying for it very, very competatively.
This is why i say:

Quote:
I dont think we NEED to be the strongest DD in the game.
Thats why im fine with it. We are more than just beat stick. Leave the #1 spot to the exclusive beat stuck (war). I have no desire to take that from them.

Also: Ukko getting nerfed.
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 Ragnarok.Amador
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By Ragnarok.Amador 2011-12-29 23:03:10  
20-30% accuracy dump huh...

It's not even about being #1. You're over thinking and reading too much into it.

It's about the simple fact that not just DRG is attack starved.
There are other jobs out there.

Why don't you do some simple addition as to how much attack Warrior, Samurai, Ranger, Dark Knight have in the end in a fully buff scenario.

Factor in what we have including our negatives.

Accuracy hasn't been an issue for DRG for a long time. It shouldn't continue to be the main stream adjustment we get.

Accuracy Bonus IV! I mean really? You truly expect that and then you'll smile and say that's the good stuff?

I welcome the jump adjustment but I still feel that we're lacking attack boost regardless. I feel it's neglected to that point. So don't target it like I'm saying the job is horrific as is, I'm simply disappointed in what I have been seeing. Which is my personal opinion regarding the matter.

I don't care what ranking DRG is in the DD world. Regardless of placement it doesn't change the fact that it's lacking. While this "Jump" Adjustment is nice for the "Dragoon" himself, it's still fairly Wyvern dependent since our best Jumps are Soul and Spirit.

Situationally, High Jump will be used Rarely. Spirit Jump will be used instead of Jump for the pure TP increase. Will you and your Mythic be happy to use it? Probably. Go you.

Will the rest of the community that is DRG utilize it? I wish I could see a census for it.

Ukko's getting nerfed is irrelevant, DRG still lacks a personal attack boost. Faster jumps? Yay. Okay, but can we get a bone on increasing our Attack and not Critical Defense Bonus II for those oh so important things we all solo? I mean really.
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2011-12-30 00:35:05  
I like how i can say:
Quote:
Amador, he may be downplaying the bad stuff, but you are seriously downplaying the good stuff drg has going for it and dismiss every benefit we DO have and ignore it.

And you next post is:
Quote:
20-30% accuracy dump huh...
...
Accuracy hasn't been an issue for DRG for a long time. It shouldn't continue to be the main stream adjustment we get.

Accuracy Bonus IV! I mean really? You truly expect that and then you'll smile and say that's the good stuff?

You cant just gloss over glaring benefits. Did i mention that in those exact same parses where TWO superb darks (both empy, both superbly geared, know both personally for years) had identically bad acc I had 95% acc in a 5hit build? Guess what 1 drk did after a few rounds. Popped sushi. I kept popping RCBs. You cant just IGNORE this stuff like it doesnt matter. I got 150 atk. He got sushi. He gets 50-60 atk (whatever atk bonus they have now is) and more in gear but stuck to sushi. I got less atk in gear/bonus, but enough acc to cap it on RCBs.

You say "include the negatives and the positive" but you undervalue our positives. 7 free atks worth of TP in 3 minutes is now in 2 minutes. Thats 1.75 WS running a 5 hit in in 3 minutes becoming 1.75ws in 2 min. in 6 minutes, that is 3.5 WS. After update that becomes 5.25 WS in the same timeframe. If you DA any, its that much more (i do a TON with OAT). WIth OAt lance and DA gear thats ~50% DA rate. Thats ~7.875 WS for me in a 6 minute period from jumps alone in addition to the nice damage they add in. Sams can keep their damage-less meditate. (this isnt even my eventual mythic).
_______________________________________________
Do other jobs have more atk? Yes. Duh. Is that the ONLY thing that matters? hell no. Drg has a really well-rounded approach to DDing that I really like and its still effective.

My point is that we can disagree about what drg 'needs'. You think the lower atk on the (currently 5 'endgame' mobs by your definition) is some type of nail in the coffin for drg (which conveniently are also more evasive, but acc apparently means nothing to you. Poor drks). I heartily disagree because this game is more than T6 jeuno. We also do terribly on skeleton mobs (50% pierce reduction) so i should DEMAND that SE fix this travesty! So what if we cant stretch our full muscle on everything in the game.

I am not disputing the fact that if drg has low-ish atk (for 2handers), we do. What I and (some) others are saying is that we dont have the atk to punch through HNM pld mobs like butter and thats OKAY. I think the moves SE has been making are enough of a bump.

*Stardiver (no atk penalty). Crit buff for group.
*more jumps for damage/TP, more utility with hate shedding on others. Instead of 2 ukkos that both die after 3 min, you can have 1 ukko and 1 drg and neither dies!
*Angon is still gods gift to DDs and relic hand augments that further.
*Hate shed is awesome for us and now others
*Droping a free C6 once a minute is still awesome no matter how much you choose to ignore it.
*Acc bonus+more acc oriented gear is good if you like it or not. Have fun eating sushi on drk. Lulz.

We lack atk on high level mobs. Yes.
Do i think thats fine? Yes. Otherwise i would have just got a ukko and leveled war.

Drg is never the epeen winner. We have low atk on a high def HNM. Toss an angon on it and see if we are still 'impacting' the fight enough. We hold our own well enough, and have aliance wide benefits for when we slip a little. That is the kinda of BARANCE that is fine with me.

If you need to be rivaling Ukkos to feel validated WHILE reducing crit evasion, spamming -20/25% def angons (new hand augment) with higher acc than ANY other front line job while dumping hate on you/others and curing people, i think your sense of entitlement may need a check. (notice i didnt even mention /mage solo crap because its a little obsolete)
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 Ragnarok.Amador
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By Ragnarok.Amador 2011-12-30 00:51:50  
What did you parse on, to get 65-70% Accuracy on 2 magnificently well geared dark knights. What level are we talking about?

It's not that I glossed over glaring benefit. It's that I just couldn't put a good constructive sentence together.

I'm sorry.

I can't say having capped accuracy is a bad thing. I still stand by what I think, we lack attack. I'm not asking for Soul Eater and Attack Bonus VII. I'm not asking for something insane, I just want a boost.

Quite a few can agree with the idea around a greater attack boost for DRG. It's not about competing for a rank, it's for wanting that push to do better. It's simple.
 Fenrir.Skadoosh
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By Fenrir.Skadoosh 2011-12-30 01:00:18  
Hard-on for DRG much?

In my opinion DRG is fine from a pure damage standpoint, just lacks the utility and survivability that comparable DDs have. Therefore, I am inclined to believe that dealing slightly more damage on DRG still won't make it relevant at this stage in the game.
 Ragnarok.Amador
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By Ragnarok.Amador 2011-12-30 01:03:53  
Don't worry you'll be selling that Power house gear you had for Ukko's soon enough buddy.

Better rebuy that Zahak's while it's cheap.

And while you're at it, realize that DRG is relevant, it's just not given the nifty toys everyone else is half the time. Just adjustments here and there that should of been present a while back.

Hard-on for Bandwagon much? Be ready to jump.
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 Fenrir.Skadoosh
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By Fenrir.Skadoosh 2011-12-30 01:08:37  
Ragnarok.Amador said: »
Don't worry you'll be selling that Power house gear you had for Ukko's soon enough buddy.

Better rebuy that Zahak's while it's cheap.

And while you're at it, realize that DRG is relevant, it's just not given the nifty toys everyone else is half the time. Just adjustments here and there that should of been present a while back.

Hard-on for Bandwagon much? Be ready to jump.


I like DRG, I just don't ever have a reason to be on it unless someone needs Angon. If any adjustment yields more damage I'm OK with that, but my paper-thin wyvern on a 20 minute timer will still be cockblock for anything that matters.
 Lakshmi.Aanalaty
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By Lakshmi.Aanalaty 2011-12-30 01:12:48  
The specific parse in question was a bajillion qilin zergs a buncha my friends did back at 95 when that 'was' endgame content. Killed that thing at least 50+ times. Really, it was only drgs and wars that had anywhere near 90% or higher (i was 95 every time ^^). Qilin isnt exactly known for his evasion(hes no lancing lamorak), so i would imagine there would be a very similar trend bumped up to 99 vs new top tier VW mobs as 95 vs T3 zilart mobs, but ive been exceedingly lazy about parsing since 99 rolled around though, so thats still an assumption.

Im not saying having atk is BAD. who wouldnt want more damage potential. Im just pointing out that we are the ONLY dd that is capable of of helping out the alliance in any significant way besides just personally DDing harder WHILE still keeping up with the big boys in personal damage. Thf has feint, but lolThf damage. Dnc has probably the most 'helpful' non-damage abilities, but their damage is FAAAR behind the top dogs. Drg still has significant support functions while still having significant personal DD output. That is the BARANCE that i mean when i say 'i think were doin aight'.

Sam? It DDs.Seriously. Nothing else on the table.
War? It DDs. Absolutely nothing else on the table.
Drk? A little less DD, but stun! yay!
Drg? A little less raw DD. Angon (non sarcastic YAY!). Excels at longer fights (hate shed), evasive mobs, weaker/trash mobs. Does not excel at high def mobs, but in that situation angon is even MORE valuable for the alli. Now slight crit -eva, soon group hate shedding abilities.

The only thing war has going for it besides raw poer is procs, which gives them priority in the alli.

Let me ask you this, if war could only use GAXE and Drg could proc all the ***war does, would ANYONE invite a war? ever? Even for their leet damage? Nope. Think about it before we pretend that damage would suddenly make drg a super duper desired endgame job. It wont. But angon and group hate shed at least stand a chance of appealing. Damage is boring. Everyone does it adequately to kill anything in the game. We cant proc well, so what can we bring to the table? Damage wont save us.
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 Ragnarok.Amador
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By Ragnarok.Amador 2011-12-30 02:11:07  
I can't say I've ever experienced that from Qilin, and I've gone to him on PLD, THF, BLU. His accuracy has never been an issue to me and I'm either popping YCB or RCB depending on market.

Perhaps they didn't have Stalwarts Tonic? I honestly cannot see clearly at that low of an accuracy rate.

As far as what DRK, SAM, DRK bring to the table it's dding well.

By what you're saying we bring: Angon. That's it.

You're tying it with THF: They have Feint.

That's terrible. Just ring the job right next to pup and call it a day.

The reality when it comes down to examples of Warrior is simple: Ukko's Fury is broken. It does insane damage. In the field they excel more at is high defense content which is really the only direction this game can take at this point. Why wouldn't you invite a job for leet damage if your main argument is that they're only good for pure brute damage?

Harder, more difficult to kill, extreme organization and tedious fights is all this game has left for it. Which will show what main bandwagon becomes if the goal is: Kill it, Kill it faster.

You can't scream BARANCE to something that can be balanced, DRG can either be left alone at this point or be given niche updates that change little.
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2011-12-30 02:48:08  
Hey. Don't bash pup in your crazy rants... lol
 Ragnarok.Amador
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By Ragnarok.Amador 2011-12-30 03:04:04  
:3 I would... oh wait.
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