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OAT or 2-4 magian?
Cerberus.Taint
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2012-02-07 17:41:43
OAT.
2-4 doesn't have a good enough spread to justify its aweful damage.
Shiva.Galbir
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1290
By Shiva.Galbir 2012-02-07 18:07:42
have seen previous post about the OAT being awesome
Where? Everything I've seen and read has supported the fact that those weps are terrible.
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By mortontony1 2012-02-07 18:08:34
have seen previous post about the OAT being awesome
Where? Everything I've seen and read has supported the fact that those weps are terrible.
O.o
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Carbuncle.Lynxblade
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1654
By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2012-02-07 18:12:19
oat weapons kinda suck, I have the 2-4 scythe, and the proc rate isnt that good, idk why i worked on 2-4hit scythe, i guess I was bored, but the only use ive gotten out of it is having infinite mp using entropy as drk/rdm......
Carbuncle.Lynxblade
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1654
By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2012-02-07 18:15:15
as for gsword resolution build, youd probably be better off with the double attack(not oat) gsword, or the wsdmg gsword
I have the wsdmg10% gsword, and im getting pretty good numbers out of it
By mortontony1 2012-02-07 18:17:51
I always heard OaT were really good. From what I remember the polearm one was currently one of the best for drg. Dagger one can't be that bad, seen quite a few thfs, dncs, and brds with them.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 494
By Sylph.Sagiaurex 2012-02-07 18:19:37
Only real good OAT weps imo are the single handed ones, especially sword if you have excalibur. but thats just my opinion, havent tried and of the 2h ones like GK and so on
Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-02-07 18:19:53
OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.
Carbuncle.Lynxblade
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1654
By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2012-02-07 18:20:12
I always heard OaT were really good. From what I remember the polearm one was currently one of the best for drg. Dagger one can't be that bad, seen quite a few thfs, dncs, and brds with them.
I think Twilight dagger is better sub dagger though....
Shiva.Galbir
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1290
By Shiva.Galbir 2012-02-07 18:22:00
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math. Do you have the math? Not saying you're wrong just would like to see it.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 489
By Odin.Lowblow 2012-02-07 18:25:27
I've heard very good things about OaT poles and such
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サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 494
By Sylph.Sagiaurex 2012-02-07 18:25:29
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »I always heard OaT were really good. From what I remember the polearm one was currently one of the best for drg. Dagger one can't be that bad, seen quite a few thfs, dncs, and brds with them.
I think Twilight dagger is better sub dagger though....
yeah the delays better anyhoo, same with the dmg
By Fitali 2012-02-07 18:25:39
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.
Uhm... Last I heard TP Bonus GS was beating Caladbolg...
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サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-02-07 18:28:09
I always heard OaT were really good. From what I remember the polearm one was currently one of the best for drg. Dagger one can't be that bad, seen quite a few thfs, dncs, and brds with them. You overestimate the playerbase. DNCs have some excuse since it was useful back at 75 for healing but now? Hell no.
Only real good OAT weps imo are the single handed ones, especially sword if you have excalibur. but thats just my opinion, havent tried and of the 2h ones like GK and so on On the contrary, I'm pretty sure every single single-handed OAT weapon is utter ***. Dagger is junk, sword is junk, katana is junk, as far as I know axe is junk, and H2H is junk. They're useful for 2hand jobs with a low multiattack rate though (ie not WAR, probably not SAM either given Hassozanshin).
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Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-02-07 18:29:26
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.
Uhm... Last I heard TP Bonus GS was beating Caladbolg...
first who said anythign about calad? second that will be changing. since SE is gimping save tp. i think calad will pull ahead.
and i dont know where but i know there was a thread about resolution and returner posted info on why OaT GS was superior. shouldnt be hard to find.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-02-07 18:31:06
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.
Uhm... Last I heard TP Bonus GS was beating Caladbolg... Is that supposed to preclude OAT being superior to either? I don't understand the relevance of your post.
By Fitali 2012-02-07 18:31:59
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »Leviathan.Phenomena said: »OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.
Uhm... Last I heard TP Bonus GS was beating Caladbolg...
first who said anythign about calad? second that will be changing. since SE is gimping save tp. i think calad will pull ahead.
and i dont know where but i know there was a thread about resolution and returner posted info on why OaT GS was superior. shouldnt be hard to find.
Was talking about TP Bonus: 100 not Store TP.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-02-07 18:33:27
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »Leviathan.Phenomena said: »OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.
Uhm... Last I heard TP Bonus GS was beating Caladbolg...
first who said anythign about calad? second that will be changing. since SE is gimping save tp. i think calad will pull ahead.
and i dont know where but i know there was a thread about resolution and returner posted info on why OaT GS was superior. shouldnt be hard to find.
Was talking about TP Bonus: 100 not Store TP.
Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-02-07 18:34:46
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »Leviathan.Phenomena said: »OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.
Uhm... Last I heard TP Bonus GS was beating Caladbolg...
first who said anythign about calad? second that will be changing. since SE is gimping save tp. i think calad will pull ahead.
and i dont know where but i know there was a thread about resolution and returner posted info on why OaT GS was superior. shouldnt be hard to find.
Was talking about TP Bonus: 100 not Store TP.
ok i got that as well. but as i said that is changing. and why quote me? i was talking about OaT GS. =o which i believe will remain on top. this of course is vs 90 calad. i would think 95/99 would win
Edit: ty night my thoughts exactly.
By Fitali 2012-02-07 18:38:49
Well then which performs better, TP Bonus +100 or OAT
By Fitali 2012-02-07 18:40:05
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.
Uhm... Last I heard TP Bonus GS was beating Caladbolg... Is that supposed to preclude OAT being superior to either? I don't understand the relevance of your post.
That was kind of my statement, I thought the order was TP Bonus 100 > Caladbolg > OAT
Carbuncle.Lynxblade
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1654
By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2012-02-07 18:43:09
I dont get how tp Bonus is good.....
Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-02-07 18:44:10
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »I dont get how tp Bonus is good.....
i wish i knew how to explain it... maybe ill go track and quote returner
By Fitali 2012-02-07 18:44:49
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »I dont get how tp Bonus is good.....
Me neither 0_o But my friend has TP Bonus 100 and 90 Caladbolg and he says for resolution it destroys Caladbolg with Aftermath.
Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-02-07 18:46:10
Ragnarok.Returner said: »Attack penalty is 8%, not 40% anymore.
Also, OAT is good because the delay is much higher meaning it is easier to 6 hit and possibly 5 hit if accuracy isn't a concern. On top of that, you are OATing 40% of the time, so your WS frequency is alot higher.
I will agree with you on the part that VW is all about temp item and atmacite, so you will pretty much be WSing all the time regardless since with save tp, regain atmacite, and monarch's drink, you will rarely even TP, making hit build and OAT less productive.
However, there is also another side of the argument. If you are rarely TPing, the ODD also becomes less of a factor. So it is a double edged sword.
In addition, lvl 85 Caladbolg is 109 base damage, lvl 99 OAT is 104 base damage. You are not WSing much harder with Caladbolg when using resolution. At best, thanks to the high WSC of resolution, the difference on base damage is really small in the WS formula (in this case, approximately 2% if even that, from the 5 base damage).
The point is really, if you are not bringing Caladbolg beyond lvl 90, OAT is your best bet. I have a Caladbolg at lvl 90, so I am not really sour graping this whole thing.
that should shed some light
Leviathan.Phenomena
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1922
By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-02-07 18:47:17
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »I dont get how tp Bonus is good.....
Me neither 0_o But my friend has TP Bonus 100 and 90 Caladbolg and he says for resolution it destroys Caladbolg with Aftermath.
The ws may but that doesnt mean his overall dmg beat 90 calad. but it might idk. i havent cared on tp bonus since OaT is better.
calads aftermath doesnt work on ws. on normal hits. so in VW when u WS nonstop TP bonus outdoes calad
By Fitali 2012-02-07 18:48:43
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »Ragnarok.Returner said: »Attack penalty is 8%, not 40% anymore.
Also, OAT is good because the delay is much higher meaning it is easier to 6 hit and possibly 5 hit if accuracy isn't a concern. On top of that, you are OATing 40% of the time, so your WS frequency is alot higher.
I will agree with you on the part that VW is all about temp item and atmacite, so you will pretty much be WSing all the time regardless since with save tp, regain atmacite, and monarch's drink, you will rarely even TP, making hit build and OAT less productive.
However, there is also another side of the argument. If you are rarely TPing, the ODD also becomes less of a factor. So it is a double edged sword.
In addition, lvl 85 Caladbolg is 109 base damage, lvl 99 OAT is 104 base damage. You are not WSing much harder with Caladbolg when using resolution. At best, thanks to the high WSC of resolution, the difference on base damage is really small in the WS formula (in this case, approximately 2% if even that, from the 5 base damage).
The point is really, if you are not bringing Caladbolg beyond lvl 90, OAT is your best bet. I have a Caladbolg at lvl 90, so I am not really sour graping this whole thing.
that should shed some light
I'm still not understanding how OAT would beat TP Bonus 100 for Resolution. Not trying to be a ***, I just literally don't understand. From everyone I know with TP Bonus 100 GS they say it is the *** Mcgee.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-02-07 18:49:51
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »I dont get how tp Bonus is good..... Adds about 13% more damage per WS at 100 TP assuming use of gorget/belt.
That was kind of my statement, I thought the order was TP Bonus 100 > Caladbolg > OAT Caladbolg's position is probably variable depending on how effectively you can keep aftermath up (see: dusty wings in Voidwatch), but I really doubt TP bonus beats OAT.
Carbuncle.Lynxblade
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1654
By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2012-02-07 18:50:29
wiki says modifier for 100tp is
.71875 and 200tp is .84375
roughly thats a 15% increase, so yeah it beats wsdmg gsword....but barely lol
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