OAT Or 2-4 Magian?

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Dark Knight » OAT or 2-4 magian?
OAT or 2-4 magian?
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 Cerberus.Taint
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By Cerberus.Taint 2012-02-07 17:41:43  
OAT.

2-4 doesn't have a good enough spread to justify its aweful damage.
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 Shiva.Galbir
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By Shiva.Galbir 2012-02-07 18:07:42  
Shiva.Cloudie said: »
have seen previous post about the OAT being awesome

Where? Everything I've seen and read has supported the fact that those weps are terrible.
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By mortontony1 2012-02-07 18:08:34  
Shiva.Galbir said: »
Shiva.Cloudie said: »
have seen previous post about the OAT being awesome

Where? Everything I've seen and read has supported the fact that those weps are terrible.

O.o
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 Carbuncle.Lynxblade
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By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2012-02-07 18:12:19  
oat weapons kinda suck, I have the 2-4 scythe, and the proc rate isnt that good, idk why i worked on 2-4hit scythe, i guess I was bored, but the only use ive gotten out of it is having infinite mp using entropy as drk/rdm......
 Carbuncle.Lynxblade
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By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2012-02-07 18:15:15  
as for gsword resolution build, youd probably be better off with the double attack(not oat) gsword, or the wsdmg gsword

I have the wsdmg10% gsword, and im getting pretty good numbers out of it
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By mortontony1 2012-02-07 18:17:51  
I always heard OaT were really good. From what I remember the polearm one was currently one of the best for drg. Dagger one can't be that bad, seen quite a few thfs, dncs, and brds with them.
 Sylph.Sagiaurex
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By Sylph.Sagiaurex 2012-02-07 18:19:37  
Only real good OAT weps imo are the single handed ones, especially sword if you have excalibur. but thats just my opinion, havent tried and of the 2h ones like GK and so on
 Leviathan.Phenomena
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By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-02-07 18:19:53  
OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.
 Carbuncle.Lynxblade
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By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2012-02-07 18:20:12  
mortontony1 said: »
I always heard OaT were really good. From what I remember the polearm one was currently one of the best for drg. Dagger one can't be that bad, seen quite a few thfs, dncs, and brds with them.

I think Twilight dagger is better sub dagger though....
 Shiva.Galbir
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By Shiva.Galbir 2012-02-07 18:22:00  
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »
OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.
Do you have the math? Not saying you're wrong just would like to see it.
 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2012-02-07 18:25:27  
I've heard very good things about OaT poles and such
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 Sylph.Sagiaurex
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By Sylph.Sagiaurex 2012-02-07 18:25:29  
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »
mortontony1 said: »
I always heard OaT were really good. From what I remember the polearm one was currently one of the best for drg. Dagger one can't be that bad, seen quite a few thfs, dncs, and brds with them.

I think Twilight dagger is better sub dagger though....

yeah the delays better anyhoo, same with the dmg
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By Fitali 2012-02-07 18:25:39  
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »
OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.

Uhm... Last I heard TP Bonus GS was beating Caladbolg...
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-02-07 18:28:09  
mortontony1 said: »
I always heard OaT were really good. From what I remember the polearm one was currently one of the best for drg. Dagger one can't be that bad, seen quite a few thfs, dncs, and brds with them.
You overestimate the playerbase. DNCs have some excuse since it was useful back at 75 for healing but now? Hell no.

Sylph.Sagiaurex said: »
Only real good OAT weps imo are the single handed ones, especially sword if you have excalibur. but thats just my opinion, havent tried and of the 2h ones like GK and so on
On the contrary, I'm pretty sure every single single-handed OAT weapon is utter ***. Dagger is junk, sword is junk, katana is junk, as far as I know axe is junk, and H2H is junk. They're useful for 2hand jobs with a low multiattack rate though (ie not WAR, probably not SAM either given Hassozanshin).
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 Leviathan.Phenomena
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By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-02-07 18:29:26  
Fitali said: »
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »
OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.

Uhm... Last I heard TP Bonus GS was beating Caladbolg...

first who said anythign about calad? second that will be changing. since SE is gimping save tp. i think calad will pull ahead.

and i dont know where but i know there was a thread about resolution and returner posted info on why OaT GS was superior. shouldnt be hard to find.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-02-07 18:31:06  
Fitali said: »
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »
OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.

Uhm... Last I heard TP Bonus GS was beating Caladbolg...
Is that supposed to preclude OAT being superior to either? I don't understand the relevance of your post.
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By Fitali 2012-02-07 18:31:59  
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »
Fitali said: »
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »
OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.

Uhm... Last I heard TP Bonus GS was beating Caladbolg...

first who said anythign about calad? second that will be changing. since SE is gimping save tp. i think calad will pull ahead.

and i dont know where but i know there was a thread about resolution and returner posted info on why OaT GS was superior. shouldnt be hard to find.

Was talking about TP Bonus: 100 not Store TP.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-02-07 18:33:27  
Fitali said: »
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »
Fitali said: »
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »
OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.

Uhm... Last I heard TP Bonus GS was beating Caladbolg...

first who said anythign about calad? second that will be changing. since SE is gimping save tp. i think calad will pull ahead.

and i dont know where but i know there was a thread about resolution and returner posted info on why OaT GS was superior. shouldnt be hard to find.

Was talking about TP Bonus: 100 not Store TP.
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 Leviathan.Phenomena
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By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-02-07 18:34:46  
Fitali said: »
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »
Fitali said: »
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »
OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.

Uhm... Last I heard TP Bonus GS was beating Caladbolg...

first who said anythign about calad? second that will be changing. since SE is gimping save tp. i think calad will pull ahead.

and i dont know where but i know there was a thread about resolution and returner posted info on why OaT GS was superior. shouldnt be hard to find.

Was talking about TP Bonus: 100 not Store TP.

ok i got that as well. but as i said that is changing. and why quote me? i was talking about OaT GS. =o which i believe will remain on top. this of course is vs 90 calad. i would think 95/99 would win

Edit: ty night my thoughts exactly.
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By Fitali 2012-02-07 18:38:49  
Well then which performs better, TP Bonus +100 or OAT
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By Fitali 2012-02-07 18:40:05  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Fitali said: »
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »
OaT GS is best GS to do. nuff said. anybody saying otherwise hasn't seen the math.

Uhm... Last I heard TP Bonus GS was beating Caladbolg...
Is that supposed to preclude OAT being superior to either? I don't understand the relevance of your post.

That was kind of my statement, I thought the order was TP Bonus 100 > Caladbolg > OAT
 Carbuncle.Lynxblade
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By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2012-02-07 18:43:09  
I dont get how tp Bonus is good.....
 Leviathan.Phenomena
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By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-02-07 18:44:10  
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »
I dont get how tp Bonus is good.....

i wish i knew how to explain it... maybe ill go track and quote returner
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By Fitali 2012-02-07 18:44:49  
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »
I dont get how tp Bonus is good.....

Me neither 0_o But my friend has TP Bonus 100 and 90 Caladbolg and he says for resolution it destroys Caladbolg with Aftermath.
 Leviathan.Phenomena
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By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-02-07 18:46:10  
Ragnarok.Returner said: »
Attack penalty is 8%, not 40% anymore.

Also, OAT is good because the delay is much higher meaning it is easier to 6 hit and possibly 5 hit if accuracy isn't a concern. On top of that, you are OATing 40% of the time, so your WS frequency is alot higher.

I will agree with you on the part that VW is all about temp item and atmacite, so you will pretty much be WSing all the time regardless since with save tp, regain atmacite, and monarch's drink, you will rarely even TP, making hit build and OAT less productive.

However, there is also another side of the argument. If you are rarely TPing, the ODD also becomes less of a factor. So it is a double edged sword.

In addition, lvl 85 Caladbolg is 109 base damage, lvl 99 OAT is 104 base damage. You are not WSing much harder with Caladbolg when using resolution. At best, thanks to the high WSC of resolution, the difference on base damage is really small in the WS formula (in this case, approximately 2% if even that, from the 5 base damage).

The point is really, if you are not bringing Caladbolg beyond lvl 90, OAT is your best bet. I have a Caladbolg at lvl 90, so I am not really sour graping this whole thing.

that should shed some light
 Leviathan.Phenomena
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By Leviathan.Phenomena 2012-02-07 18:47:17  
Fitali said: »
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »
I dont get how tp Bonus is good.....

Me neither 0_o But my friend has TP Bonus 100 and 90 Caladbolg and he says for resolution it destroys Caladbolg with Aftermath.

The ws may but that doesnt mean his overall dmg beat 90 calad. but it might idk. i havent cared on tp bonus since OaT is better.

calads aftermath doesnt work on ws. on normal hits. so in VW when u WS nonstop TP bonus outdoes calad
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By Fitali 2012-02-07 18:48:43  
Leviathan.Phenomena said: »
Ragnarok.Returner said: »
Attack penalty is 8%, not 40% anymore.

Also, OAT is good because the delay is much higher meaning it is easier to 6 hit and possibly 5 hit if accuracy isn't a concern. On top of that, you are OATing 40% of the time, so your WS frequency is alot higher.

I will agree with you on the part that VW is all about temp item and atmacite, so you will pretty much be WSing all the time regardless since with save tp, regain atmacite, and monarch's drink, you will rarely even TP, making hit build and OAT less productive.

However, there is also another side of the argument. If you are rarely TPing, the ODD also becomes less of a factor. So it is a double edged sword.

In addition, lvl 85 Caladbolg is 109 base damage, lvl 99 OAT is 104 base damage. You are not WSing much harder with Caladbolg when using resolution. At best, thanks to the high WSC of resolution, the difference on base damage is really small in the WS formula (in this case, approximately 2% if even that, from the 5 base damage).

The point is really, if you are not bringing Caladbolg beyond lvl 90, OAT is your best bet. I have a Caladbolg at lvl 90, so I am not really sour graping this whole thing.

that should shed some light

I'm still not understanding how OAT would beat TP Bonus 100 for Resolution. Not trying to be a ***, I just literally don't understand. From everyone I know with TP Bonus 100 GS they say it is the *** Mcgee.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-02-07 18:49:51  
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »
I dont get how tp Bonus is good.....
Adds about 13% more damage per WS at 100 TP assuming use of gorget/belt.

Fitali said: »
That was kind of my statement, I thought the order was TP Bonus 100 > Caladbolg > OAT
Caladbolg's position is probably variable depending on how effectively you can keep aftermath up (see: dusty wings in Voidwatch), but I really doubt TP bonus beats OAT.
 Carbuncle.Lynxblade
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By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2012-02-07 18:50:29  
wiki says modifier for 100tp is
.71875 and 200tp is .84375

roughly thats a 15% increase, so yeah it beats wsdmg gsword....but barely lol
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