Dark Knight TP Gear As The Game Stands Now

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Dark Knight » Dark Knight TP gear as the game stands now
Dark Knight TP gear as the game stands now
 Phoenix.Kirana
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By Phoenix.Kirana 2012-05-01 19:36:57  
I see now that with embrava(~30) + haste(15) + LR(25) + Hasso(10) you would be capping haste without gear. Of course you would replace LR with 25% gear haste when LR is down.
 Fenrir.Jinjo
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By Fenrir.Jinjo 2012-05-01 19:38:49  
Job Ability haste caps at 25%, and magic caps at 43.75 or something.
 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2012-05-01 19:40:52  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Empy scythe is junk.

It's ummmm aesthetically pleasing on my mithra mannequin!.... yeah!
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-01 19:44:09  
It isn't even that >:C Unless you like looking at malformed demon colibri.
 Phoenix.Kirana
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By Phoenix.Kirana 2012-05-01 20:04:50  
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
Job Ability haste caps at 25%, and magic caps at 43.75 or something.
So even with embrava+haste(43.33) and LR+Hasso(25) you would always need 11.67% gear haste, or all 25% when LR is down.

edited: checked BG wiki and it's 43.33%
 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2012-05-01 20:07:47  
Phoenix.Kirana said: »
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
Job Ability haste caps at 25%, and magic caps at 43.75 or something.
So even with embrava+haste(43.75) and LR+Hasso(25) you would always need 11.25% gear haste, or 25% when LR is down.
Depends on who's casting embrava. I think 500 skill is like 34%
 Phoenix.Kirana
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By Phoenix.Kirana 2012-05-01 20:10:44  
Ragnarok.Ashman said: »
Phoenix.Kirana said: »
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
Job Ability haste caps at 25%, and magic caps at 43.75 or something.
So even with embrava+haste(43.75) and LR+Hasso(25) you would always need 11.25% gear haste, or 25% when LR is down.
Depends on who's casting embrava. I think 500 skill is like 34%
If magical haste caps at 43.33% then as long as embrava adds ~28% you will be capping magical haste with the haste spell.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-05-01 21:04:30  
I'm 99.9% sure it's 448/1024, or 43.75%. Everything I've ever seen from Kirschy since she developed the /1024 model has used that number as the magic haste cap. Not sure why that particular page indicates otherwise.
 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2012-05-02 06:47:12  
Phoenix.Kirana said: »
Ragnarok.Ashman said: »
Phoenix.Kirana said: »
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
Job Ability haste caps at 25%, and magic caps at 43.75 or something.
So even with embrava+haste(43.75) and LR+Hasso(25) you would always need 11.25% gear haste, or 25% when LR is down.
Depends on who's casting embrava. I think 500 skill is like 34%
If magical haste caps at 43.33% then as long as embrava adds ~28% you will be capping magical haste with the haste spell.

You're right in that sense. I wasn't even thinking caps... just what the spells added up to, derp.
 Phoenix.Urteil
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By Phoenix.Urteil 2012-05-03 06:58:52  
The only time I use scourge is to kill someone sand insult them, but want something flashier than hard slash.


It is the poo poo.
[+]
 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2012-05-03 07:08:09  
If you wanna sand insult them use earth crusher!
 Remora.Morphius
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By Remora.Morphius 2012-05-03 15:31:23  
Alright so, obviously Ragnarok with Resolution spam is epic win. Apocolypse, and Liberator 99 are the best Scythes. Got it. So that has turned around a little bit. Anyone have any thoughts on all them trial quested upgradeable weapons? Are any of those "extra special"?

You guys made it sound like Embrava was something that was always available to someone that doesn't know xD. But that said, Embrava is definitely a game changer every 1:45:00 per SCH or so lol.

Any other Dark Knights have thoughts about TP phase has actually changed during the last 2 years or so compared to before? I've read that DPS is completely and utterly almost all on weaponskills now, how did that happen? I guess I'm mostly looking at EXP pt/ Battle inside and outside Abyssea (What I mean by battle is events, bosses, probably 2 hours, more buffs, etc). And what about gear in and out of said place, and events? I'd especially be interested to hear from anyobody that has been playing longer than 3 years :3

By volkom 2012-05-03 15:35:44  
Remora.Morphius said: »
Alright so, obviously Ragnarok with Resolution spam is epic win. Apocolypse, and Liberator 99 are the best Scythes. Got it. So that has turned around a little bit. Anyone have any thoughts on all them trial quested upgradeable weapons? Are any of those "extra special"?

You guys made it sound like Embrava was something that was always available to someone that doesn't know xD. But that said, Embrava is definitely a game changer every 1:45:00 per SCH or so lol.

Any other Dark Knights have thoughts about TP phase has actually changed during the last 2 years or so compared to before? I've read that DPS is completely and utterly almost all on weaponskills now, how did that happen? I guess I'm mostly looking at EXP pt/ Battle inside and outside Abyssea (What I mean by battle is probably 2 hours, more buffs, etc). I'd especially be interested to hear from anyobody that has been playing longer than 3 years :3
3min of capped ability haste is nice
 Asura.Hotsoups
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By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-05-04 03:39:32  
Ragnarok.Ashman said: »
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Empy scythe is junk.
It's ummmm aesthetically pleasing on my mithra mannequin!.... yeah!

How does the empyrean scythe actually fair versus the other scythes when level 3 aftermath can be sustained and spamming entropy? The high rate of ODD on a weapon with that much base damage doesn't seem entirely junk.
 Siren.Thoraeon
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By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-05-04 03:50:40  
Asura.Hotsoups said: »
Ragnarok.Ashman said: »
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Empy scythe is junk.
It's ummmm aesthetically pleasing on my mithra mannequin!.... yeah!

How does the empyrean scythe actually fair versus the other scythes when level 3 aftermath can be sustained and spamming entropy? The high rate of ODD on a weapon with that much base damage doesn't seem entirely junk.
The main problem is that it is not a Great Sword.
 Asura.Hotsoups
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By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-05-04 03:52:07  
Siren.Thoraeon said: »
Asura.Hotsoups said: »
Ragnarok.Ashman said: »
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Empy scythe is junk.
It's ummmm aesthetically pleasing on my mithra mannequin!.... yeah!
How does the empyrean scythe actually fair versus the other scythes when level 3 aftermath can be sustained and spamming entropy? The high rate of ODD on a weapon with that much base damage doesn't seem entirely junk.
The main problem is that it is not a Great Sword.

"Versus other scythes" being the key part of my question.
 Siren.Thoraeon
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By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-05-04 04:01:42  
Even with the 90 version, the base damage falls behind many easily obtainable scythes with delays that can offer better hit builds as well. Similar to how 90 Caladbolg falls behind many other options. Better ws/ws frequency/not having to do a gimp ws every 1:30 will probably win out in the long run. Especially since 2handed damage is skewed towards ws damage, not melee damage.

Edit: This arguement can also apply to many of the other Emp weapons with weak ws's attached: Scythe, GSword, Polearm, Axe, GKatana (inb4 people raging at this, but it is true)
 Asura.Hotsoups
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By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-05-04 04:10:23  
The 99 version of Redemption has 163 base damage. The base damage increases from 127(85). And this is why I was inquiring about it, 50% ODD on this scythe seems really powerful.
 Siren.Thoraeon
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By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-05-04 04:12:31  
The 99 version is a totally different monster. They generally are among the top weapons of their class. A far cry from their 85/90 versions.
 Remora.Morphius
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By Remora.Morphius 2012-05-04 04:15:43  
Please don't derail topic D: Answer if you know anything about Scythes. At 99.

But yeah I guess... What weaponskill usually does more damage? Entropy or Insurgency? Liberator 99 does have a direct +30% dmg on Insurgency out of the gate at Lv99 which is kewl I guess, right? Empy Scythe Redemption does have the lowest Delay out of the three, with the 3rd highest DMG for a Scythe...
But I was under the impression the Aftermath on Liberator made it a better choice. That and the 30% addition to damage on Insurgency, +30 Magic Acc, and +50% boost to absorb spells. Seems nice. Especially after they take away the Decreasing value over time on stat boosts on an upcoming update (or did that happen already? I'm not playing now).

What I did get out of your postings Thor was... DPS is waaaay more leaning to weaponskills than it ever was. Back 2 years ago+ that wasnt the case so much. Now I've read it a few times. That has directly to do with the topic so thanks. Yay.
 Asura.Hotsoups
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By Asura.Hotsoups 2012-05-04 04:20:22  
Redemption's base damage is 1 higher than liberator's making it the second highest base damage for scythes.

I'd assume that all three weapons will spam entropy when level 3 aftermath is up.
 Remora.Morphius
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By Remora.Morphius 2012-05-04 04:25:36  
Asura.Hotsoups said: »
Redemption's base damage is 1 higher than liberator's making it the second highest base damage for scythes.

I'd assume that all three weapons will spam entropy when level 3 aftermath is up.
Oops, read the number and wrote something different. So is Entropy marginally better than Insurgency or a lot? +30% DMG with Liberator seems more than marginal (Edit: don't forget the Acc/Att from aftermath too :3). That's adding 600 DMG to a weaponskill that would have been 2000. So how do they really compare?

Another EDIT:
Reading how Insurgency is Guillotine -10%... is that true? xD
Now that I read it, I think I remember that being the case way back when (3 yrs ago). Is that still the case? :\ Looking like +30% wouldn't really fix that if it is... Lame-o

Oh wells. Hidden effect on Liberator may as well be Insurgency damage -30% then I guess.
 Shiva.Damonz
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By Shiva.Damonz 2012-05-04 04:57:52  
Redemption gives the WS Quietus so that's what you would be using to activate aftermath, so Liberator or Redemption you would still be spamming Entropy while your aftermath is up as that's the merritable WS for scythe
 Bahamut.Atoreis
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By Bahamut.Atoreis 2012-05-04 06:03:17  
There is realy no reason to guess all that. Math is pretty easy really

Give me your base INT and STR and I will do the rest.

I will use this set for Insurgency


and this for Entropy


I will go with 105 base STR and 85base INT

Insurgency WSC:
STR = 190*0.2*0.85 = 32
INT = 130*0.2*0.85 = 22
Total: 54
fSTR - Lets say around 17
162+17+54= 233
fTP - Not much info is given how AM3 works with DA/TA etc. but I will guess that avg fTP will be
3+0.67+0.748+0.1= 4.518
Insurgency dmg: 4.518*233*1.3= 1368

Entropy WSC:
INT: 153*0.85= 130
STR around 162 so fSTR around 7 less
130+162+10= 302
fTP: 3.9+0.73+0.0975= 4.727
Entropy dmg: 4.727*302= 1427

Like you see Entropy easily wins especially that every details that I havent included like overtping/atmacite/braver's will all favor entropy.

EDIT: Ok I was a little wrong. It wont win easily but slightly because I forgot Insurgency build have more attack. For uncapped attack both WS have very similar damage unless you are Taru with INT merits maybe. For VW tho Entropy easily wins because of TP bonus atmacite and braver's.
 Ragnarok.Ashman
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By Ragnarok.Ashman 2012-05-04 08:01:13  
I get a notification that I was quoted in this thread and come back to read "hurr durr liberator are bad"? Is drk really turning into abyssea-era mnk?



Remora.Morphius said: »
What I did get out of your postings Thor was... DPS is waaaay more leaning to weaponskills than it ever was. Back 2 years ago+ that wasnt the case so much. Now I've read it a few times. That has directly to do with the topic so thanks. Yay.

This is mostly true, but until they make a 100 tp return ws we can never IGNORE non-ws dps. You just have to have larger jumps in your melee to offset the amount of damage you'd put out just doing 2 of the stronger ws (or stronger ws'ing weapon for that matter). The super save-tp days of voidwatch got nerfed and interest in that event is quickly diminishing (and provenance is not the same type of zerg fights).

That being said: Liberator isn't just an increase in damage between ws; it's also an increase in ws frequency.

Long story short: no one here would kick one out of bed despite what they post.
 Remora.Morphius
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By Remora.Morphius 2012-05-04 11:38:32  
I guess you can abandon thread. No one is actually writing about the thread topic I made anymore anyways
/sadface