Another Gear Advice Thread

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Another Gear advice Thread
 Lakshmi.Tanama
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By Lakshmi.Tanama 2012-11-23 08:50:49  
Siren.Ihm said: »

I never really put much consideration into the use of that belt and the OPness off those feet. I wonder whats the best AM down then. Not quite convinced on the WS set though tbh.

AF3+2 hands pushed ahead for me slightly on WS, and Hagneia Stone on TP.
Yes, you're right. An oversight on my part. Along with Lancer hands +2, For waist: Elemental belt > Anguinus > Wanion > Prosilio

WS Dmg: 2733
Set DPS: 521.574 so far.

With that setup this is what I ran with the ammo slot on WS:

Black 528.242
Astrolabe 527.904
Demonry core 526.524
Cheruski needle 525.873
Thew bomblet 524.193
Hagneia 522.036
Potestas 521.574

Then I switched Pyrosoul to Gaubious Ring and the end result is:

WS Dmg: 2916
Set DPS: 545.566

Ring slot: Gaubious > Ambuscade > Oneiros > Mars > Thundersoul

Although it really depends how long that Accuracy+10 enchantment lasts, you'll always have that ambuscade ring* in hand.

*Legion only


AM3 Up Drakesbane


WS Dmg: 3195
Set DPS: 593.015
WS Accuracy: Need +27 to cap
WS Attack: +44 over


More to come.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2012-11-23 09:45:54  
Wouldn't you have to fulltime that Gaubious ring the keep the enchantment on? Most enchantments wear off when the item is removed.

I really wouldn't wanna do that.

Also, is this intended to actually optimize for legion, or is it just a general Super high-level content simulation?
 Lakshmi.Tanama
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By Lakshmi.Tanama 2012-11-23 09:49:02  
Yes, the intent is for the higher waves in Legion and Hall of Mul, maximizing DPS.

I am currently using this as the setup:

Race: Elvaan
SJ: SAM
Food: Pizza+1 Red Curry Bun-
Target: Ig-Alima
Def Down: 35%
COR Rolls: Chaos Att% +35 / Rogue's Crit% +15
Wyvern: on
AM3: on
Hasso / Meditate: on
Haste: on
Embrava: on
Songs: Min V + IV, Mad II


As for Gibious? Yeah, I believe you're right. If the enchantment does wear off with equipment change, it is not worth it.

EDIT: I've heard from one person that the Legion bosses are the same level as their voidwatch counterparts. He didn't cite a source so I'm not sure if he was just assuming or if there's information on that somewhere.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2012-11-23 10:20:56  
Ok, well. Assuming an actual Legion setup. The first thing to do, is turn on soul voice. The BRD locks SV on the exit, so you get SV the whole run, unless something kills them(wave2 ironclad or astral flow.) That alone should clear up most of the acc issues. Depending on how good a BRD we're talking(99 Ghorn?)

Next up. Mob stats. We know relatively little about these mobs stats. Based on This and This we have some approximate Paramount Gallu's stats

LVL 119~120
VIT 100

The Vit there is pretty different from the 123 in the sheet atm.

We don't have any AGI data atm. Which makes using any DEX gear on ws iffy at best, once acc is taken care of.

I'd love to get some AGI data, but it's very difficult on these mobs. You see, then best way to measure AGI, is by checking your crit rate at various dex levels.

But all the wave 2+ mobs in Mul have a massive crit rate reduction. And I mean massive(-25~30%) Typical crit rate in TP gear is gonna be 0~1%. Making it really hard to figure out mob AGI. And, brutally murdering Drakebane DMG.

So, for even semi accurate numbers in Mul, you'll need to add that crit- to the mob data. Other lists tab, column H. Crit rate. set to -25% or -30%.

These changes should have a notable impact on what gear is ideal.
 Lakshmi.Tanama
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By Lakshmi.Tanama 2012-11-23 10:26:04  
Alright. I'll change it to those settings and report my findings.
 Siren.Ihm
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By Siren.Ihm 2012-11-23 12:12:36  
What about if you remove Embrava? Yanno, since its becoming useless in the very near future, plan ahead goes?
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By Kyler 2012-11-23 12:58:03  
I'm really tired about hearing how embrava is going to be useless. There is nothing useless about being able to cap magic haste without marches opening up the use of minuets scherzo madrigals is and was way more of a game changer than some regain especially with empy/relic bards
 Lakshmi.Tanama
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By Lakshmi.Tanama 2012-11-23 12:58:12  
  • Updated Ig-Alima to have -25% Crit trait and lowered it's VIT to 100.

  • Added Soul Voice with 99 Gjallhorn songs and +5 merits into minuet and madrigal.

  • Songs: Min IV V and Mad II

  • Race: Elvaan

  • SJ: SAM

  • Food: Red Curry Bun

  • Target: Ig-Alima

  • Def Down: 35%

  • COR Rolls: Samurai Store TP +35 / Rogue's Crit% +15 [Switched Chaos to Samurai since TP set Attack was about +300 over the cap]

  • Wyvern: on

  • AM3: on

  • Hasso / Meditate: on

  • Haste: on

  • Embrava: on



These are the best sets I've come up with so far:

AM3 Up Drakesbane


WS Dmg: 2664
Set DPS: 622.030
TP Accuracy: +26 Above the cap
TP Attack: +64 Over the cap
WS Accuracy: +26 over the cap
WS Attack: -75 Under the cap
 Bismarck.Altar
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By Bismarck.Altar 2012-11-23 13:04:27  
Kyler said: »
I'm really tired about hearing how embrava is going to be useless. There is nothing useless about being able to cap magic haste without marches opening up the use of minuets scherzo madrigals is and was way more of a game changer than some regain especially with empy/relic bards
Ignoring the fact that its duration will be 25% of what it currently is...
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By Kyler 2012-11-23 13:11:49  
Other than NNI you lock your buffs on a book or portal quite frequently, the SCH can recast it and the DDs can extend its useful duration. Is it worse? Obviously. Is it broken? Not anymore. Is it useless? Far from it.
 Siren.Ihm
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By Siren.Ihm 2012-11-23 14:13:18  
Kyler said: »
I'm really tired about hearing how embrava is going to be useless. There is nothing useless about being able to cap magic haste without marches opening up the use of minuets scherzo madrigals is and was way more of a game changer than some regain especially with empy/relic bards

That's all peaches and cream, but the 5 regain effects the sets a lot, and that's what I was referring too.
 Lakshmi.Tanama
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By Lakshmi.Tanama 2012-11-23 14:31:03  
Siren.Ihm said: »
Kyler said: »
I'm really tired about hearing how embrava is going to be useless. There is nothing useless about being able to cap magic haste without marches opening up the use of minuets scherzo madrigals is and was way more of a game changer than some regain especially with empy/relic bards

That's all peaches and cream, but the 5 regain effects the sets a lot, and that's what I was referring too.
I wanted to do Embrava off originally because of the impending nerf but I believe the magic haste value will remain the same. The regain effect on the other hand, I will have to wait until Motenten updates the spreadsheets before I can start mathing again post-nerf.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-11-23 22:04:58  
Because editing cells or substituting appropriate-tier marches for Embrava (not that tiers are especially relevant for DRG min-maxing since you don't hit delay cap outside 2hr) is really *** hard and nobody does math without his spreadsheets.

Kyler said: »
I'm really tired about hearing how embrava is going to be useless. There is nothing useless about being able to cap magic haste without marches opening up the use of minuets scherzo madrigals is and was way more of a game changer than some regain especially with empy/relic bards
You won't be able to cap magic haste without at least one march post-nerf. Embrava will cap at 25%, magic haste caps at 43.75%.
[+]
 Siren.Ihm
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By Siren.Ihm 2012-11-24 12:35:03  
If you want to alter the spreadsheet to allow for the removal of embravas regain and adjustment of the haste (I guessed the enhancing modifier, it was Enhancing/15+1 so I guess it as Enhancing/20.83+1 which gives 25% at 500 skill) then its simple ^^.

Go to the data tab, cell B85 and replace it with
Code
=MIN(IF(Setup!J4=1,150,0) + (IF(Setup!J15=1, 96 + 16 * Setup!J14, 0) + IF(Setup!J16=1, 64 + 16 * Setup!J14, 0)) * IF(Setup!J13=1, 2, 1) + IF(Setup!J32=1, TRUNC(((Setup!J31/20.83+1)/100)*1024), 0),448)/1024

then C85 changes to
Code
=MIN(IF(Setup!K4=1,150,0) + (IF(Setup!K15=1, 96 + 16 * Setup!K14, 0) + IF(Setup!K16=1, 64 + 16 * Setup!K14,0)) * IF(Setup!K13=1, 2, 1) + IF(Setup!K32=1, TRUNC(((Setup!K31/20.83+1)/100)*1024), 0),448)/1024

D100 changes to
Code
=C$22+IF(Setup!J44=1,Setup!M44,0)+IF(Setup!J34=1,1,0) + HLOOKUP($A100,INDIRECT(B$25),MATCH("Total",Slots,0)+1,0)

and finally E100 becomes
Code
=D$22+IF(Setup!K44=1,Setup!N44,0) + IF(Setup!K34=1,1,0) +HLOOKUP($A100,INDIRECT(C$25),MATCH("Total",Slots,0)+1,0)


Enjoy~
 Lakshmi.Tanama
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By Lakshmi.Tanama 2012-11-24 14:11:24  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
Because editing cells or substituting appropriate-tier marches for Embrava (not that tiers are especially relevant for DRG min-maxing since you don't hit delay cap outside 2hr) is really *** hard and nobody does math without his spreadsheets.
I don't. Want to fight about it? I started messing with these spreadsheets fairly recently so cut me some *** slack will you?

Siren.Ihm said: »
If you want to alter the spreadsheet to allow for the removal of embravas regain and adjustment of the haste (I guessed the enhancing modifier, it was Enhancing/15+1 so I guess it as Enhancing/20.83+1 which gives 25% at 500 skill) then its simple ^^.

Go to the data tab, cell B85 and replace it with
Code
=MIN(IF(Setup!J4=1,150,0) + (IF(Setup!J15=1, 96 + 16 * Setup!J14, 0) + IF(Setup!J16=1, 64 + 16 * Setup!J14, 0)) * IF(Setup!J13=1, 2, 1) + IF(Setup!J32=1, TRUNC(((Setup!J31/20.83+1)/100)*1024), 0),448)/1024

then C85 changes to
Code
=MIN(IF(Setup!K4=1,150,0) + (IF(Setup!K15=1, 96 + 16 * Setup!K14, 0) + IF(Setup!K16=1, 64 + 16 * Setup!K14,0)) * IF(Setup!K13=1, 2, 1) + IF(Setup!K32=1, TRUNC(((Setup!K31/20.83+1)/100)*1024), 0),448)/1024

D100 changes to
Code
=C$22+IF(Setup!J44=1,Setup!M44,0)+IF(Setup!J34=1,1,0) + HLOOKUP($A100,INDIRECT(B$25),MATCH("Total",Slots,0)+1,0)

and finally E100 becomes
Code
=D$22+IF(Setup!K44=1,Setup!N44,0) + IF(Setup!K34=1,1,0) +HLOOKUP($A100,INDIRECT(C$25),MATCH("Total",Slots,0)+1,0)


Enjoy~

Thank you.
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By Kyler 2012-11-24 18:02:52  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
You won't be able to cap magic haste without at least one march post-nerf. Embrava will cap at 25%, magic haste caps at 43.75%.

Didn't realize they were cutting the cap to 25% instead of 33, but I still stand by my statement.
 Quetzalcoatl.Lanien
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By Quetzalcoatl.Lanien 2012-11-25 01:29:21  
What's the best TP back when:

- OAT polearm
- Not Rancorous mantle
- Assuming not Atheling since the DA% is pointless with OAT for TPing

Can't be using Rancorous in Legion, which is what the question is based around. I will obviously be using it every where else applicable
 Carbuncle.Xenhas
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By Carbuncle.Xenhas 2012-11-25 01:34:47  
Quetzalcoatl.Lanien said: »
What's the best TP back when:

- OAT polearm
- Not Rancorous mantle
- Assuming not Atheling since the DA% is pointless with OAT for TPing

Can't be using Rancorous in Legion, which is what the question is based around. I will obviously be using it every where else applicable

lol
 Ragnarok.Raenil
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By Ragnarok.Raenil 2012-11-25 01:38:36  
DA (or any multi attack) isn't useless with an OAT weapon, just has it's value cut down. Atheling Mantle still has a hefty ATT+, more than Rancor Mantle does. Unless Rancor Mantle has a hidden effect, I don't get the point of using it.

I'd wager Forager's and Cerberus +1 mantles are pretty close when using an OAT weapon, but probably still inferior to Atheling.

Ah, so it's Crit+5% vs DA+1.8% (essentially anyway iirc) and ATT+3?
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2012-11-25 07:35:39  
Paramount Gallu probably has more than a 25% crit rate penalty. I'd put it at 40% minimum and possibly 50%. The only monster I've seen Ragnarok users come off the crit rate floor on in Wave 2-3 is Paramount Naraka.

Ragnarok users necessarily have a 24% base crit rate and sometimes we use Blood Rage (+20%), so considering that dDEX is probably not 0 (especially after we ES impact stuff) the crit rate penalty must be absolutely huge.