Attention All Gungnir Owners And Non-Gungnir Owners

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Dragoon » Attention all Gungnir owners and non-Gungnir owners
Attention all Gungnir owners and non-Gungnir owners
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 Lakshmi.Tanama
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By Lakshmi.Tanama 2012-11-26 19:22:28  
Go here, login and Like the OP. It is at 48 Likes at the moment and rising. Hopefully, with more Likes it will receive a development team response. This issue needs to be dealt with conclusively.

Thank you.
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 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2012-11-26 19:29:00  
Already did or I would again ^^;

Go Ophannus!
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2012-11-26 19:32:13  
I think that person that posted right after him had it right lol. Just don't use Geirskogul?
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-11-26 19:38:50  
Seriously, you don't see any MNK bitching about Final Heaven and it's equally useless aftermath.
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 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2012-11-26 19:41:26  
The only complaint I guess is with the def-? Then just don't use Angon for a minute? I mean ***, nobody does drg angon rotations anymore, do they? lol
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By Aeyela 2012-11-26 19:42:11  
Ramuh.Austar said: »
Seriously, you don't see any MNK bitching about Final Heaven and it's equally useless aftermath.

Pretty sure that's all I hear Monks bitching about actually.
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 Phoenix.Dabackpack
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By Phoenix.Dabackpack 2012-11-26 19:49:34  
The Defense Down thing really does need to be fixed though.
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By Aeyela 2012-11-26 19:54:32  
Phoenix.Dabackpack said: »
The Defense Down thing really does need to be fixed though.

The raised point about other mythics/relics overriding hard caps is the best point of all, I think. If somebody puts all that time and effort into a Gungnir at the very least it should give their defense down more utility over 5/5 Angon. The fact that it actually penalises the user is ridiculous.

Whilst some people certainly don't hold the achievement of finishing a relic as high as it once was, I still consider it a commendable and hat tipping achievement. The end product should be better than it is for quite a lot of them, especially considering weapons of equal, if not greater, use can be obtained in Abyssea with a fraction of the time and financial investment.

Edit: Damn. I just realised you're the guy with funny paint pics on his profile. Can I ask for my 10 minutes back in advance?
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 Quetzalcoatl.Makenshi
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By Quetzalcoatl.Makenshi 2012-11-26 19:56:40  
Yeah because Blade: Metsu is such a great weapon skill, and the Subtle Blow aftermath is not totally useless now...

Welcome to the club!
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 Asura.Aikchan
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By Asura.Aikchan 2012-11-26 19:57:58  
coughfarshacough, they are many relic,empy,mythic that something sucks w/ them...
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 Fenrir.Leoheart
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By Fenrir.Leoheart 2012-11-26 19:58:48  
Scourge cough... oh nvm
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-11-26 20:01:37  
Scourge is still ***
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 Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2012-11-26 20:01:48  
Fenrir.Leoheart said: »
Scourge cough... oh nvm

Same boat, actually.
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By Aeyela 2012-11-26 20:02:36  
Why stop at Gungnir, though? They should update all aftermaths for more relevant and up-to-date effects. For example, Annihilator should have a hidden effect of 'does not consume ammunition' because shooting 1 Byne Bills gets expensive.

Edit for Serj and Prothescar: You just got whooshed, I think. Those dastardly Brits!
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-11-26 20:06:51  
Was more toward Ophannus's OF post where he implies scourge AM is good, didn't even see the one above mine
 Fenrir.Curty
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By Fenrir.Curty 2012-11-26 20:07:15  
Not to rain on your parade but polearm is probably in the top half of useful relics, should not be the first to get updated.
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-11-26 20:10:02  
Are you using useful as in respect to the job or useful overall? Because it's really not very good at all when it's put in the context of other job/weapon combinations that are available.
 Fenrir.Curty
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By Fenrir.Curty 2012-11-26 20:13:31  
Useful with respect to the job, that should be apparent :(
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By Aeyela 2012-11-26 20:15:22  
Fenrir.Curty said: »
Not to rain on your parade but polearm is probably in the top half of useful relics, should not be the first to get updated.

I don't understand this... Top half of useful relics? Apocalypse isn't very useful to a Dragoon, nor is a Mandau. How can anything other than a Gungnir be useful in comparison to a Gungnir? The OP, and subsequent references to 'less than desirable' aftermaths are in relation to their job and what it gives the user. The problem with Gungnir (and other relics that fall in the same 'less than desirable' category) is the fact that for their jobs, they're either underwhelming or their aftermath is useless.

That said, though, I'd love to give my Wuffi a Mandau to hold in her mouth whilst she flies at my enemies!
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-11-26 20:18:37  
Fenrir.Curty said: »
Useful with respect to the job, that should be apparent :(

Anyway, if you exclude shield and horn, we have 14 weapons left.

Club, Staff, are mage weapons so they don't really count.
Yoichinoyumi isn't really good for anything, but RNG also gets gun, so that's somewhat mitigated.
Sword isn't really good for any purpose RDM or PLD care about.

Axe is best in slot for BST.
Great Sword is useable by 3 jobs and is extremely powerful and often best-in-slot for two of them.
Gun is RNG's best bet.
Dagger is THF's best weapon.
H2H is situationally MNK's best choice.
Katana is situationally NIN's best choice.
I don't really need to touch on Scythe.

Gungnir is never best for DRG and the other non-mythic options are comparable to Gungnir in efficacy.

How is Gungnir one of the best in regards for the job?
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 Fenrir.Curty
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By Fenrir.Curty 2012-11-26 20:18:47  
Aeyela said: »
Fenrir.Curty said: »
Not to rain on your parade but polearm is probably in the top half of useful relics, should not be the first to get updated.

I don't understand this... Top half of useful relics? Apocalypse isn't very useful to a Dragoon, nor is a Mandau. How can anything other than a Gungnir be useful in comparison to a Gungnir? The OP, and subsequent references to 'less than desirable' aftermaths are in relation to their job and what it gives the user. The problem with Gungnir (and other relics that fall in the same 'less than desirable' category) is the fact that for their jobs, they're either underwhelming or their aftermath is useless.

Can Drg use Kikoku?
 Fenrir.Mtmoogle
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By Fenrir.Mtmoogle 2012-11-26 20:20:33  
Ramuh.Austar said: »
Seriously, you don't see any MNK bitching about Final Heaven and it's equally useless aftermath.
The thing is... The aftermath for final heaven actually makes sense for a mnk given that mnks get subtle *** traits and the same goes for nin. Shock spikes has nothing to do with drg
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By Aeyela 2012-11-26 20:20:38  
Fenrir.Curty said: »
Can Drg use Kikoku?

Yeah. It was added in the July version update.
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By Aeyela 2012-11-26 20:22:00  
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Gungnir is never best for DRG and the other non-mythic options are comparable to Gungnir in efficacy.

You could have made that point by just putting Herja's fork. :)
 Fenrir.Curty
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By Fenrir.Curty 2012-11-26 20:26:54  
If you think Herja's Fork comes close to 99 Gungnir in damage output, please quit dragoon.

Gungnir is drg's best option outside of mythic (which is unobtainable to 99% of the player base), and that is much more than you can say about a handful of the other relics.

Also, you can't throw the mage relics out "Because they are useless"... that's my point.

Should Gungnir get a buff? yes.
Do other relics need a buff worse than Gungnir to be useful? yes.
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2012-11-26 20:27:17  
I didn't.

I will agree that Gungnir is more useful than Staff, Club, Sword, and Bow.

But that doesn't come close to putting it in the top half.
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 Fenrir.Curty
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By Fenrir.Curty 2012-11-26 20:29:11  
I'd argue it's superior to katana and H2H, but I understand why you don't think so, and don't really feel like arguing about that.
 Valefor.Sapphire
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By Valefor.Sapphire 2012-11-26 20:30:05  
Lakshmi.Tanama said: »
Go here, login and Like the OP. It is at 48 Likes at the moment and rising. Hopefully, with more Likes it will receive a development team response. This issue needs to be dealt with conclusively.

Thank you.
Stop trying to get out of finishing your Ryunohige ;p


Quetzalcoatl.Makenshi said: »
Yeah because Blade: Metsu is such a great weapon skill, and the Subtle Blow aftermath is not totally useless now...

Welcome to the club!
The ~3 nagi owners would like a word with you about who has the worst weapon, but they instead committed majin gakure and decided to not reraise.
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By Aeyela 2012-11-26 20:30:56  
Fenrir.Curty said: »
If you think Herja's Fork comes close to 99 Gungnir in damage output, please quit dragoon.

Oh, you!

Of course not. But considering Gungnir costs 100m or 2 hours of your day for a couple of months, it shows how 'relatively' 'not as great' it is. Though, let's not detract from the OP's objection with Gungnir: damage wise, it's a very good weapon. I don't think many people would dispute that.

It's the fact that the aftermath is a pile of bollocks and the defense down effect is only 17% and overwrites Angon. Angon is -20%, so effectively a Dragoon can't melee for 30-180 seconds for fear of overwriting Angon's effect. For a 100m weapon, that's pretty crappy.

Valefor.Sapphire said: »
Stop trying to get out of finishing your Ryunohige ;p

S/he finished. I seethed with furious envy upon examining him/her about thirty minutes ago in Nahsmau!

Edit: Nevermind, I read your post as Gungnir the first time round, lol.
 Fenrir.Curty
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By Fenrir.Curty 2012-11-26 20:33:18  
I agree that the angon thing is super sad, hopefully they at least fix that for you.
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