Achievement Suggestion Form

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Achievement Suggestion Form
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 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2013-03-02 02:02:36  
Asura.Calinzt said: »
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
It's possible, it just isn't done yet.

But more importantly, he didn't complete all the quests!
I didn't mean I've completed all the quests. But I've completed a significant amount of quests. I was pretty sure people would misinterpret it, but I didn't know how to word it another way.

The log is called "completed quests" log. So that's what I called the pic. I didn't mean to imply I've completed the whole quests log.

It's good to hear that quests will be taken into account though. However, I do not agree with them being 5%. Some of them require a lot of work. Like Lu Shang's Finishing Rod (I didn't fishbot it, but ya who can prove it sadly;;), the Miraculous Dale is a lot of NM camping hours too...
You have to understand that missions atm only take up 1%, raising them up to 5% is a very significant jump and I would only agree with that jump if quests were included with missions and not missions alone.

Anyways, I only said up to 5% and the actual value with quests included would probably reach 4-5%, but it really depends on what the worth is set at.

Crafting I believe is the major concern that needs to be addressed since it's very difficult to max out a craft and you barely get any points for it.
 Asura.Calinzt
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By Asura.Calinzt 2013-03-02 02:10:56  
I perfectly understand you, Kala. What I'm trying to say is, you claim the system is designed to reflect game completion, quests are a huge part of that considering the many hours it takes to converse with the NPCs and travel to all the places they ask you to. Sure, it's not as expensive as a legenedary, but apart from mythic, the other 2 legendary types are pretty much do dynamis/abyssea until u drop dead. That doesn't really explore the game much, just circles around the same areas until the grind is complete.

But as you wish, this is just my opinion. Quests define exploration in an RPG. The legendaries, do not. Especially not Relic and Empyrean.
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 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2013-03-02 02:13:05  
Asura.Calinzt said: »
I perfectly understand you, Kala. What I'm trying to say is, you claim the system is designed to reflect game completion, quests are a huge part of that considering the many hours it takes to converse with the NPCs and travel to all the places they ask you to. Sure, it's not as expensive as a legenedary, but apart from mythic, the other 2 legendary types are pretty much do dynamis/abyssea until u drop dead. That doesn't really explore the game much, just circles around the same areas until the grind is complete.

But as you wish, this is just my opinion. Quests define exploration in an RPG. The legendaries, do not. Especially not Relic and Empyrean.
I understand your point of view, but others won't see it that way.

Each quest would probably be worth up to the amount Atma / Abyssite give, being 50 points each at max, maybe less since there are so many.
 Bismarck.Kuroganashi
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By Bismarck.Kuroganashi 2013-03-02 02:20:40  
I believe Armor could be accounted for

That way it adds more Achievement, the more Armors you manage to Collect ^^
 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2013-03-02 02:38:24  
San d'Oria Quests : 82
Bastok Quests : 93
Windurst Quests : 90
Jeuno Quests : 149
Other Quests : 64
Outland Quests : 60
Aht Urhgan Quests : 71
Crystal War Quests : 93
Vision of Abyssea Quests : 46
Scars of Abyssea Quests : 41
Heroes of Abyssea Quests : 48
Seekers of Adoulin Quests : --

Total: 837 quests

Missions take up 18,600 points, I could see completing all quests to be around 50k points, so each quest would be 50-60 points set at that goal.

However not every quest should be considered, so it would be better to list what quests are noteworthy and go from there.
 Leviathan.Thania
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By Leviathan.Thania 2013-03-02 02:47:48  
as i said earlier something fair would be :

easy quest : 50 points
normal quest (1h quest) : 100 pts
hard quest ( hard quests or/and long quests, more than 1h) : 200 pts

the problem is : you have to definite for the 837 quests of the game in which category they fit.

it could be a lot of work for Scragg

if everybody is ok on this matter,i'm even ok to create an excel and think about it, if some people want to help they're welcome
 Asura.Calinzt
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By Asura.Calinzt 2013-03-02 02:48:39  
That's a good start, but ultimately it ends up like all the other achievement problems with crafting and, until recently, legendaries.

Quests are not all equal. Some are easy and AHable, some require rare/ex items so you have to do the leg work for, and some are pretty hard to complete altogether and involve a lot of time or a hard fight (carbuncle prime still requires a duo at least for example).

Maybe as someone suggested, try to break them down into 3 tiers?
Easy, Normal, Hard? And award points accordingly.

I guess, what people are afraid of here, is that 95% of the population doesn't care about questing. They only care for legendaries. So, they will fight against this because it might overtake their botted/bought work with non-bottable work for the most part.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-03-02 02:50:36  
If quests were to be added to achievements, just add ones that actually deserve to be considered an achievement. Lu Shang is the only one that I can think of off the top of my head, even buying the 10,000 carps requires some dedication. Trading a tiger fang to Mrs. Applestein shouldn't be worth a single point
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 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2013-03-02 02:53:30  
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
If quests were to be added to achievements, just add ones that actually deserve to be considered an achievement. Lu Shang is the only one that I can think of off the top of my head, even buying the 10,000 carps requires some dedication. Trading a tiger fang to Mrs. Applestein shouldn't be worth a single point
I agree, but then we'd have to provide a list of quests that should be considered.

which we should do if we want quests to be considered, so someone would have to do that...
 Shiva.Vosslerr
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By Shiva.Vosslerr 2013-03-02 02:57:31  
Pretty sure splitting the quests apart into which is more important would just take away from the accomplishment. Perhaps a percentage of quests completed may work.
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By Shiva.Vosslerr 2013-03-02 03:00:10  
I'll admit there was some you could just buy the item off the AH and trade but there were times when I had to actually spend the time to farm a random item.
 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2013-03-02 03:01:23  
I still agree with proth on this, we should limit quests so that we filter out all the ones where you run an errand, find a fang and bring it back, etc.

For example

Leviathan.Thania said: »
easy quest : 50 points
normal quest : 100 pts
hard quest : 200 pts

Quests in the 200 point category should be considered, the rest would just add too much work. It's not that it would take away their personal achievement of completing so many, but something is better than nothing.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-03-02 03:04:34  
Honestly can only think of two quests that'd fit the 200 point category, ebisu and lu shang quests. I suppose Waking the Beast too, but that isn't difficult anymore so much as annoying.
 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2013-03-02 03:05:21  
In the end, it really depends on how well guildwork pulls from the game, and how well FFXIAH can pull from guildwork. How much work would it take Scragg to incorporate quests onto this site? After that, he has to set point values to them as well if they are going to be added to the system and it just gets really complicated from there.
 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2013-03-02 03:10:50  
If quests aren't considered for points, which is very possible, at the very least players that care about quests will be able to show them off under a quest tab, which will be nice for them. It's not points but they didn't do them for points to begin with, so it shouldn't matter.
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 Leviathan.Thania
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By Leviathan.Thania 2013-03-02 03:11:03  
20 symbolic points for every quests ?
200 for hard ones ?
points for a pack of quests ? every 50 quests = 1000 pts ?
 Shiva.Vosslerr
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By Shiva.Vosslerr 2013-03-02 03:15:41  
I can agree, a quest list like Jinjo mentioned at the beginning of the post would do wonders.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-03-02 03:16:59  
Siren.Kalilla said: »
If quests aren't considered for points, which is very possible, at the very least players that care about quests will be able to show them off under a quest tab, which will be nice for them. It's not points but they didn't do them for points to begin with, so it shouldn't matter.

i agree, i think a list similar to atma/abyssite/assaults is the best solution really. would undoubtedly be much less work to do that than to filter through quests and pick and choose which handful of quests are worth a handful of achievement points, and people can still show off their dedication.
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 Asura.Calinzt
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By Asura.Calinzt 2013-03-02 03:17:21  
Well here's an example of two quests that I don't think should be equal:
• Synergistic Pursuits: requires 3 AH items and 1 ex item. In this case Mythril Sand, which you have to go to Palborough Mines for and make yourself. Many players detest having to do leg work and rather just buy off AH when they can. So, while this quest is easy, it still requires you to do leg work and should be awarded higher than the AH only items quests.

However.. it's not equal in difficulty to the below quest:
• Tea with a Tonberry?: requires 2 rare/ex items, coming from 2 different zones, that you have to farm from mobs in those zones. Then you have to take them to 2 other zones, and fight an NM in each to complete the quest.

So in both cases there's items required, but in 1 case they're mostly AHable, with an easy to get non-AHable item, and in the other case you have to do a lot of legwork and fighting(unless you're lucky with TH) to actually obtain the required items.

And both quests rank higher in difficulty than just AHable item quests like the Tiger Fang in South Sandy for example. IMO at least.
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By Shiva.Vosslerr 2013-03-02 03:22:30  
I wouldn't call it difficult but the Ecowarrior quests are definately tough to find people wanting to do/help with it. Thinking about you Sandy lol. If im not mistaken that quest is still capped at 20 needing nearly a full allience. Might be wrong though.
 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2013-03-02 03:24:39  
Ecowarrior... such wonderful yet horrifying memories of wiping and failing.
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 Asura.Calinzt
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By Asura.Calinzt 2013-03-02 03:26:11  
Why wouldn't you call it difficult? It is pretty difficult considering the 20 cap and the fact that no one wants to help you do it. It's one of the quests I haven't beaten for all nations yet. In my opinion that's a prime example of a quest that falls in the Hard category in terms of scoring.

Ninja EDIT: I also believe, if hard quests have high point values, we may even see shouts for them appear again. Some people are after the AH points, whereas others just want completion.
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By Shiva.Vosslerr 2013-03-02 03:31:32  
I'm in the same position, one of the only Sandy quests I haven't done. I was thinking the same about it being in the hard category. Just finding the people is difficult enough for me lol.
 Bahamut.Krizz
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By Bahamut.Krizz 2013-03-02 07:47:31  
Don't forget that Scragg basically did the same thing for FFXIV that we want for quests on FFXI.

http://www.ffxivpro.com/achievements/list
 Ragnarok.Action
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By Ragnarok.Action 2013-03-02 08:10:18  
Just focus on Crafts for god sake i dun see how come lvl job from 30-99 can get u more ranking point than getting craft from 0-70 this is insane and if u ppl going to talk about how pain exp was and how easy it come well craft was hard and it still suck at some point, the gil i spent for smithing from 90-100 can get me 4-6 jobs to leech im trying to keep it sense it way more than 4-6 mil~ .
 Shiva.Kingafk
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By Shiva.Kingafk 2013-03-03 09:01:07  
Ragnarok.Action said: »
Just focus on Crafts for god sake i dun see how come lvl job from 30-99 can get u more ranking point than getting craft from 0-70 this is insane and if u ppl going to talk about how pain exp was and how easy it come well craft was hard and it still suck at some point, the gil i spent for smithing from 90-100 can get me 4-6 jobs to leech im trying to keep it sense it way more than 4-6 mil~ .


As I am a big fan of adding a point system in for all quests, maybe have a list of quests that yeild more points and are "Note Worthy" but also give a set amount of points for the % of quests you have completed..

..I have to agree with this statement above. Crafting and having a Lv100+ skill should be considered a lot more heavily.

In addition, is Chocobo Digging data available client side?
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 Cerberus.Pukushu
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By Cerberus.Pukushu 2013-03-06 23:07:19  
As far as quests go. I dont think they should be given too many points. 50 per seams reasonable, but debatable. I dont think they should be weighted though. A weighting system will be very subjective. It will also be very time consuming to consider not only what the different weights will be, the criteria for each weight, but then you have to apply those criteria to 800+ quests and since it is a subjective system it should be reviewed periodically which adds to the complexity of the system. That amount of effort building a point system so that a person can get ~50 points per instance is making it over complex.

Even if we just had a check list like we used to for atma/abyssite, I would be pleased. Points would be a bonus and I dont see any reason why there shouldnt be points, but I'd take w/e. I can see the point of weighting them, but the effort cost of weighting them is enormous compared to the benefit of having them weighted. I also dont see the huge downside to having points given for simple quests. If they are that easy then everyone should have them or Im also totally fine with a (minimum) penalizing ppl for avoiding doing them (ie they just dont have those 50 points). If he feels like ranking everything then more power to him. It couldnt hurt, but everything should be counted at least.

Most achievement systems arnt really weighted. Most are just check in the box achievements. I personally like having more boxes to check. Or in this case more red bars to fill. :) An interesting thought would be to remove points completely and just have red bars. That way no one could complain about 'rank.' But people could see what people have completed.
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By Phoenix.Michelob 2013-03-23 14:53:53  
I don't think it's necessary to split up quests for different values, really. I'd just make them all be 50 (or hell even 20) each or whatever and be done with it... no work involved. If they are easy ones (most of them are) then everyone will have them done so it won't really skew anything. The running completion total would just be fun in itself.
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