NNI - How My Group Wins On Odin

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フォーラム » FFXI » Endgame » Salvage/Assault » NNI - how my group wins on Odin
NNI - how my group wins on Odin
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By Odin.Kingdinguhling 2013-05-08 16:27:34  
We have been doing it for about a month now and have started pulling together some good success rates as of lately.

Our Setup - SCH COR 4x SAM


Since the patch 2xSCH is useless with Embrava Nerf and everyone was fast to say BRD was better than COR but we noticed that Bard songs don't last very long and are a pain to keep on every single floor. especially if everyone wants to run as soon as you hit a new floor. COR just casts alternating every floor a Roll each time we go up. We seem to almost always have 2 on.



Corsair(COR/WHM) -- COR rolls last like 7 minutes with merited winning streak so this helps alot. We ussually just have the COR wait at the rune. its nice to have a Armegeddon for mobs like Cardaman Custard wich is almost unkillable by Melee DD's.. i.e. SAM (but we dont have armegeddon 60% of the time). Also on Boss Floors that /WHM on COR is really nice to remove plague paralyze and other nasty detriments.



Scholar(SCH/RDM) -- typically follows us around for Haste, Cure4's, and if he can debuffs. We always use Skype so he can tell us to hold on a floor for Acession-perpetuance-regen 5.



Samurai's/DD's -- As for the DD's we are winning now with just 4x 85 Masamune (yes I said it lol 85s). i know we all need to upgrade to atleast 90s but it seems like its not a huge deal for this. We Skillchain constantly with Fudo-Fudo just watch out on some mobs like floor 60 boss Light SC heals him so switch to Shoha. Blade Bash seems to helps alot on some bosses also.



Temp Items - set as preferred varies person to person but most of us have body boost(use one then grab another for a full 30 minute run of body boost), cleric's Drink, Dusty Wing, Fenatic's, and Sprinters if you need to get somewhere fast.



Inventory Items -- i always make sure my group takes ReRaise, Red Curry buns, Sneak and Invis, and Holy Waters for floor 80 bosses (this is because of the doom) nothing bogs a run down more than 2 dead DD's or even 1 Dead DD 2 jumps away from 100.


-- We have had really successful runs with other DD's like DRKs DRGs BLUs and other setups (SCH BRD backline), but this is our most successful setup that we have.

-- Also we havent tried a Daurdabla BRD, wich i would love to try extended song duration, but so far sometimes mediocre geared COR's is all we can find.... We have some good COR's too but COR rolls last 7 minutes wich just free's them up to take us up every floor



I really hope that helps some of you get a idea of how we do it. We didnt start off winning every run. we hit floor 80 several times before we started seeing 100 wins so get a steady group and work on communication!!!
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 Siren.Kiyara
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By Siren.Kiyara 2013-05-08 16:45:03  
Thanks for the advice. At least you put more helpful info than others do.
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 Cerberus.Quintow
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By Cerberus.Quintow 2013-05-08 16:53:58  
Thanks for this. Late on the NNI train and looking to do this steadily over the next few weeks. Few questions....for DD's, all /dnc? Also, using all those temps do you start to go into the negative real fast with your nyzul points (forget their exact name)? Finally, to clarify you're clearing 100 like this pretty steadily you say, what kind of time do you end with, seconds, minutes, though I'm sure it varies I just wonder? Thanks!
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By Odin.Kingdinguhling 2013-05-08 17:45:04  
nah we all /war for the extra damage. the SCH does fine on healing
and as for the tokens as long as you leave if you know your gonna loose you wil always get tokens. just dont decide to go up if you only got 3 minutes left and are on floor 75
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By Triffle 2013-05-08 17:52:01  
I used to think COR was more useful but after some tries with BRD, my group found it to be way superior.

Songs last a lot longer than you think. When you use Troubadour and Nightingale, songs will be instant cast and they should also last over 5 minutes.

I also sub SMN on BRD to do Hastega with Garuda which lasts a good while. With this amount of haste from songs and Garuda, we kill stuff so fast our DDs barely take any damage. Last run we did got 3/4 floor 100s and only got one 80 floor because jumps were very, very, very, very bad.
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 Phoenix.Samenosuke
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By Phoenix.Samenosuke 2013-05-08 18:02:24  
5 wins so far with mnkx1 samx3 schx1 brd or corx1 also had 2 mnks and 2 sam for one of the wins
 Siren.Seiri
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By Siren.Seiri 2013-05-08 18:27:03  
A few small points from me..

For BRD vs COR.
A cor offers static potency buffs dependant on roll #, but not dependant on gear. Essentially meaning that you could take a noob cor who had a modicum of knowledge and do fine.

A BRD on the other hand needs good gear, capped skills and such to be useful - but a capped BRD is more useful on the whole than a cor. When given emp/relic instruments, a BRD becomes even more useful.

- If you're SCH is good then Triffle's suggestion of /smn is a good one also, as it alleviates the chore of haste from the SCH. Plus Okarin is king...


DD should always /war or /sam, survival isn't important - temps and healing should keep you alive, or your group has issues (essentially what the OP said). Silent oils, prism powders, powder boots and red curry buns should be essential for all DD also if you shoot for 100, yellow curry and no boots are acceptable for 80 runs.


For DD roles, don't be afraid to experiment. My personal favourite (and what my group used post-brava-nerf) was DRK/SAM (me, apoc), SAM/WAR (masa), MNK/WAR (Veret) and BLU/WAR (Almace). DRK, SAM and to a point MNK are regularly accepted, but taking a (good, they have to be good) BLU saved more than 1 run where we would have otherwise been boned by floor restrictions. One particular run we got to floor 100 with WS restricted and 2~ minutes, the BLU 1hr'd and put out something stupid like a 8 part solo skill chain. Really saved the day.

Back on topic though, a lot of jobs carry a bad rep, but if played well can perform just fine. PUP for example (especially with rigor h2h and the new animator...sick ***) can be crazy good. DNC with twashtar can also do nice things. BST can be surprisingly strong, but on the whole can't 'zerg' as well as regular DD, so I wouldn't take one over a war for example.

Special mention goes to thf - if played well it can do good enough dmg, but you get a better chance of drops on 100. A half rate thf isn't good enough though, they need to actually contribute to damage to be worth taking in my opinion.

Another special mention goes to rng - don't take one. In an experimental run we tried an anni rng and while it's dmg was fine, it needed babysitting far too much to be efficient. This could possibly be circumvented but I would avoid using one in future for the high chance of it being a liability.
 Asura.Calatilla
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By Asura.Calatilla 2013-05-08 19:17:51  
My group currently runs with a Ragna DRK, Ukon War, Vere MNK, TPbonus Sam, SCH/RDM(me) and a BRD/COR, we do pretty well as a whole but occasionally we get boned on lame jumps.
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 Cerberus.Conagh
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2013-05-08 19:20:38  
Cerberus.Quintow said: »
Thanks for this. Late on the NNI train and looking to do this steadily over the next few weeks. Few questions....for DD's, all /dnc? Also, using all those temps do you start to go into the negative real fast with your nyzul points (forget their exact name)? Finally, to clarify you're clearing 100 like this pretty steadily you say, what kind of time do you end with, seconds, minutes, though I'm sure it varies I just wonder? Thanks!


I've had some terrible BRD's.... Ones who don't know that Pianissimo can be cancelled mid buff to make it aoe, but with the half cast time, or ones with No song- cast set...

That said I've met a Good DD COR, with Last stand doing some crazy numbers (pre delve) it worked a few wins at 100.

That said I also met an apoc DRK with no ws set, so I guess bad players are just the issue on NNI.

Dancer sub is not needed, a good SCH Regen V and Phalanx will mitigate damage nicely. DD should be /war for Gear floors.

I've gone as SAM DRK WAR COR BRD SCH, the COR was Optimal DD however using Swords etc, a 95 Armageddon (increase base dmg for last stand? lol). The nice thing about cor/war was the 7k Wild fires on Goaty custard x.x , the war sub was for Last Stand etc ~ We won with that set up with 7 mins left, and another with 5 seconds. NNI is Majorly luck based.

The important thing is to try
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-05-08 19:43:46  
Is this even the same event that it was?
 Asura.Calatilla
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By Asura.Calatilla 2013-05-08 20:06:45  
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
Is this even the same event that it was?
Its still 90% luck based yes.
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2013-05-08 21:29:45  
Cerberus.Conagh said: »
I've had some terrible BRD's.... Ones who don't know that Pianissimo can be cancelled mid buff to make it aoe, but with the half cast time, or ones with No song- cast set...
It isn't really obvious you can do that with pianissimo. Where is this strategy listed where only terrible bards wouldn't know? I mean... I didn't.
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 Cerberus.Diabolique
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By Cerberus.Diabolique 2013-05-08 21:35:44  
Had no idea that was possible either. Makes sense now that I read it, but I never thought to even try and that's the first time I've ever seen that mentioned.
I'm way to slow at manually cancelling crap though so doubt I could get it to work properly anyways.
 Quetzalcoatl.Sanriku
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By Quetzalcoatl.Sanriku 2013-05-08 21:49:09  
Just won with this setup:

Drg/sam (no r/e/m)
Drg/sam (no r/e/m)
Drk/sam (apoc)
War/sam (ukon)
sch/rdm
brd/rdm

Got a couple lucky jumps, no free floors and a few lamp floors. But all in all its about communication and hustle! (^.^)v
 Bismarck.Xzeikx
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By Bismarck.Xzeikx 2013-05-08 22:13:01  
Use delve weapons win the game
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 Siren.Kiyara
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By Siren.Kiyara 2013-05-10 03:28:52  
Tried using war sub with some other things and still same result ;/ . Only getting 1 win every 4 runs. I dunno what else to do ;/. 4/20 so far on my track record and it seems to just sit at that sadly. Not sure what else to do. THis is gonna be a long painful road.
 Bahamut.Kiralai
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By Bahamut.Kiralai 2013-05-10 03:52:22  
Bismarck.Xzeikx said: »
Use delve weapons win the game

Honestly, I can't think of any instances offhand where lack of damage was the reason for not hitting 100 in my group. Typically it was terrible luck with jumps or getting a bad random assortment of floors. Admittedly it's been awhile since I've been in NNI though.
 Bismarck.Xzeikx
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By Bismarck.Xzeikx 2013-05-10 07:13:16  
Well more dps faster kills still though like boss floors etc just means all around less time spent on mobs. Maybe its just bismarck though but there are some terrible players
 Bismarck.Xellan
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By Bismarck.Xellan 2013-05-10 08:24:40  
Bismarck.Xzeikx said: »
Maybe its just bismarck though but there are some terrible players

Can't agree with this more.
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By Baniak 2013-05-10 08:53:00  
Cerberus.Diabolique said: »
Had no idea that was possible either. Makes sense now that I read it, but I never thought to even try and that's the first time I've ever seen that mentioned.
I'm way to slow at manually cancelling crap though so doubt I could get it to work properly anyways.


Will that even make a difference? With good gear all time gained on singing faster will be lost on using Pianissimo itself? I mean You will get like 2 sec faster song but you will start singing 1-2sec later.
 Asura.Calatilla
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By Asura.Calatilla 2013-05-10 09:03:50  
Siren.Kiyara said: »
Tried using war sub with some other things and still same result ;/ . Only getting 1 win every 4 runs. I dunno what else to do ;/. 4/20 so far on my track record and it seems to just sit at that sadly. Not sure what else to do. THis is gonna be a long painful road.
1 win every 4 runs isn't all that bad really. NNI is a majorly luck based event, and if the RNG isn't on your side then you're in for a rough ride.

It doesn't matter how well your group is geared, if you get crappy floor jumps or stupid objectives it's going to affect your run.
 Carbuncle.Hackett
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By Carbuncle.Hackett 2013-05-10 09:23:58  
Our setup is DD x4, SCH/rdm, BRD/smn

Every floor you get at least 1 AoE buff from SCH and BRD
Marcato + Nightengale + Troubador every 10min unless it happens to land on a lamp floor. Mazurka on lamp floors. Bard keeps Tenuto + Ballads on himself when the group leaves the lamp. Hit Sch with a pianissimo ballad if he ever runs past midrun (if you dont get him it's ok he can manage). You can get hastega off on new floors before you can see your character and startup up a song.

Brd needs to be careful with sleeping any adds that wander his or her way with an avatar out; it will attack your target. If its a lamp floor and no one finds a lamp in 15 seconds its probably code so Brd follows the group too. The big thing is hastega.

Any job that has enough refresh for hastega every 3min can guard the pole up, and keep the party hasted the whole run. Consider a Rdm/smn or Blu/smn. Maybe take a Geo, and have Sch/smn guard the pole.
 Phoenix.Rizzspeed
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By Phoenix.Rizzspeed 2013-05-10 09:52:14  
Asura.Calatilla said: »

It doesn't matter how well your group is geared, if you get crappy floor jumps or stupid objectives it's going to affect your run.

^THIS, so this!!!!
our runs are marred with 3 & 4 floor jumps so often, it'll drive you insane!
i remember a few runs it took us 5 jumps just to get past floor 20!
omg the randomness!
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2013-05-10 10:25:51  
Baniak said: »
Cerberus.Diabolique said: »
Had no idea that was possible either. Makes sense now that I read it, but I never thought to even try and that's the first time I've ever seen that mentioned.
I'm way to slow at manually cancelling crap though so doubt I could get it to work properly anyways.


Will that even make a difference? With good gear all time gained on singing faster will be lost on using Pianissimo itself? I mean You will get like 2 sec faster song but you will start singing 1-2sec later.

After reading this I went and tested it. It does actually. Even with capped fastcast at 80% but the gain is low and would be more likely to cause more issues than it's worth at that point but there is a gain.

There is a .7 sec delay minimum between activating Pianissimo and being able to cast.

A song's base cast time is 8 seconds. With this it takes it down to 4 base. It's more valuable the less fastcast you have though.

With capped fastcast:

8 sec base @ 80% fc = 1.6 sec cast time.
4 sec base @ 80% fc = 0.8 sec cast time but you have to add in the .7 sec delay so 1.5 sec total.

So people with capped fc aren't getting much out of it and it only complicates the song process by adding more room for error. I know for me, it'd be a huge pain in the *** to get it worked in to my xml and you'd want to be sure not to use any instacast gear(though you shouldn't anyway).
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By Odin.Kingdinguhling 2013-05-10 15:08:36  
like a few have said in here and ill say it again only reason we always bring COR is for the Extra long buffs
(Dont like waiting every floor for a new song)


And sometimes the pudding only take magic damage
(Cardaman Custard - good example)

Also we have yet to find a descent BRD capped skill, gear, trial weapons, instruments
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By Odin.Kingdinguhling 2013-05-10 15:13:31  
you guys dont have problems with debuffss from bosses chariots ie.

curse plague bind paralyze slow doom?

didnt see anyone say /WHM either?

kinda wierdthis wasnt mentioned

a single SCH just runs out of strategems to fast to keep AoEing healing magic so we make sure the COR comes /WHM now too
 
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 Siren.Kiyara
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By Siren.Kiyara 2013-05-13 14:21:45  
4/23 now. Sigh, 2 times got to floor 76 and floor 79 with 4 min left roughly on each run and lost due to the 5 floor jumps in a row being bad. I tallied my floor jumps on the floor 79 run.

Here's our Floor 79 jump run

1) 6 floors jumped
2) 7 floors jumped
3) 10 floors jumped
4) 11 floors jumped
5) 3 floors jumped
6) 2 floors jumped
7) 4 floors jumped
8) 4 floors jumped
9) 4 floors jumped
10) 11 floors jumped
11) 10 floors jumped
12) 7 floors jumped

Average jumps per floor : 6.59 (below average since 7 is the norm)

People say you should be averaging 15-20 floors per run but I'm only able to do 12-15. Worse I've done in a complete run is 10 floors but my average seems to hover around 12.


Average time for objectives:

Specific Enemy Floor - 30 seconds to 1 minute
Family Mobs - 1:30 to 5 minutes (depending on the luck and layout)
Lamps - anywhere from 45 seconds to 4 minutes (depending on type of lamp objective)
Enemy Leader - 1 minute to 3 minutes (again depending on mob, layout and if it's floor 20/40/60/80 boss or not)
All mobs - 1 minute to 5 minutes (this sometimes is bad when the floors load out with like 20 mobs and lot of mobs that are killed very slowly (slimes etc))

All DDs sub either sam or war depending on the job and mages are usually sch/rdm or sch/whm and brd/whm. Using sanction, atk food, all items from box, rr items and sneak/invis items. We assign bard to do floor jumps and coordination of order and time on lamp floors along with buffing dds on every other floor or so.

Not sure what else to do. Getting extremely frustrated with this stupid thing.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-05-13 14:31:18  
average is 6.5 assuming even distribution

2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + 10 + 11 = 65 / 10 possibilities = 6.5

you are actually above average jumps

your dd are probably bad, or at least not very proactive

4 song brd helps a ton
 Siren.Kiyara
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By Siren.Kiyara 2013-05-13 14:35:43  
Wouldn't the average be 7? The floor jumps range from 2 to 12. The middle point is 7 not 6.5. Thought it was 12 not 11.
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