RDM Reforged Artifact Gear And Stymie.

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
言語: JP EN FR DE
日本語版のFFXIVPRO利用したい場合は、上記の"JP"を設定して、又はjp.ffxivpro.comを直接に利用してもいいです
users online
フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Red Mage » RDM Reforged Artifact Gear and Stymie.
RDM Reforged Artifact Gear and Stymie.
 Phoenix.Demonjustin
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 661
By Phoenix.Demonjustin 2013-11-13 00:08:17  
This is a post I made on the official forums, I know its likely wasted effort, but I would like to at least try getting as many likes as I can. I am not asking you to like the post just because, I want people to read it and see my points, if you agree, I would love to get the extra like, maybe if enough people agree with it some changes will be made. I am honestly ready to quit this game, but friends are keeping me here, I figure if I will be staying for them I may as well try once again to see changes made that will benefit RDM, even if its only something small like this, because at least something will change, and it may open the door for future changes. As I said, please read the thread, I will quote basically everything here for you to read, if you agree with me, please go to the actual thread here and give it a like and/or a post. Any support with it is appreciated, and thank you for your time if you choose to read it.

Quote:
Please understand, I am a diehard RDM, it is my favorite job, my main since the day I began, and that will never change. I stuck with RDM through Abyssea, VW, and everything that came with them, through the hardest times for RDMs, and I was not even playing during its best years, nor was I EG active during any of its good years. I only came to finally experienced RDM in EG once Abyssea came along, which was my worst point in time from what I know.

Through all of this, I have learnt to play RDM well, I have developed skill enough to be called one of the best RDMs on Phoenix by many people I know, and I have even had some others tell me they look up to me as a RDM. My experience with this job is not to be underestimated, nor is it lackluster enough to say I do not know what I am talking about when it comes to the job. So please, understand that everything I say here comes from a RDM with a great deal of experience over the last few years, and enough knowledge to be worth listening to, not just other players, but to you as well developers and community representatives.

If at any time I seem aggressive or angry, I hope that you do not ban me as you did before, I am trying my best to be calm and collected for this post, because I want you to listen to what I have to say, but I can admit I can get a bit passionate about RDM at times, and if I stat to sound aggressive, it may be because of how I feel about some things I will be talking about here. However, I feel Matsui as well as the others in charge of what happens to this game are reasonable people who I can speak to in a way that will communicate how I feel exactly, so I hope this can be done right.

If you do find any of what I ask to be unreasonable however, I would very much like a detailed explanation as to why. I understand we do not always see eye to eye on choices you make, but I think part of what hurts the relationship between the development team and the players is that we feel many of your explanations make little sense, or contradict what we know about the game. Some of that will be talked about later in this thread, and it is for that reason I want so very much for you to explain why these things can not be done in a detailed manner, I am not opposed to reasonable counter-arguments to that which I request, but I do want to understand why it can not be done, otherwise it becomes difficult to accept.





Reforged Armor(RF).



First, I want to talk about the new Reforged Set. I honestly had high hopes, but I was a bit disappointed, you made some choices I feel were rather bad with certain stats, which I hope are mistakes, but I rather doubt they are.

I will break each piece down into why I think they should be changed a bit, and I hope you will listen to the feedback, see it as reasonable, and perhaps even make the changes I ask for, I feel none of them are unreasonable changes to ask, and would be best for the job.



Atrophy Chapeau.



This piece is nice, but sadly it has no enhancement we can get that is not able to be found in the gear we have access to since Skirmish and Delve.

Most jobs have Job Abilities which can be enhanced through their gear, we do not, RDMs have only spells, and a few select Job Abilities which are sadly almost never enhanced by our gear. I wish this piece did enhance something unique, but sadly, it does not.

The base stats we get from it being an Item Level piece, meaning HP/MP/STR/DEX/ect. Those stats are all beaten by Skirmish gear, and more importantly, by Nahtirah. The Haste and Fast Cast are the same as the Nahtirah too. I like that this seems to be a piece to sort of bridge that gap, but for a RDM like myself with that piece already, this offers next to nothing.

On top of that however, I feel like the very reason most Red Mages used our original Chapeau, was lost in its level jump.

Originally, this piece had a nice bit of INT and a lot of skill, stats for Elemental Magic at the time which were very good, especially when you consider the extra MP, and the Fast Cast.



However I feel like the reincarnation of today does not live up to this. our new one is good for elemental magic, but it is no longer a true focus for the piece. I wish it had Magic Attack Bonus, Magic Damage, or slightly more INT, something to make it stand out a bit more. For now, it only serves to give us a little more Magic Accuracy, which is not much when you think about the fact that we have so much right now, our Elemental Magic is hardly resisted in the first place.

I think you should add stats to the Atrophy Chapeau that would make it stand out for Elemental Magic as it once did. This would give it a place potentially, however it would need to be fairly powerful stats, the ideal stats to give this would be a nice amount of Magic Damage and Magic Attack Bonus, enough so that it is weaker than the current best Elemental Magic head piece, Hagondes Hat, while also being in a position to become more powerful than that very head piece upon its upgrade to level 119. This would allow RDMs to have this as a dominant piece of gear, useful to the job, while also allowing the item levels to be accurate.

I also think in doing this, Magic Damage should be added to the BLM and SCH head pieces as well, to balance them, and put them in a similar situation, so that they can still be better than RDM, however this piece would keep its legacy as a RDM Elemental Magic piece.



Atrophy Tabard.




This piece I believe should be changed a bit, it lost a stat, and gained one a different piece should have gotten.



Looking at the original, it was an Enfeebling Magic body piece with Spell Interruption Rate which helped with other spells, however the overall main use was for that Enfeebling Magic Skill. While you did increase the skill, you removed the Spell Interruption Rate completely, on top of that, you gave this body Magic Attack Bonus, which I believe should have been on the Chapeau rather than this piece.

This piece does have the normal stats that come with being an item level piece too, and in nice amounts, which does it justice for being an Enfeebling Magic piece especially when you think about the MND and INT on the piece, which make it the best piece for Enfeebling Magic Accuracy unless you count Skirmish gear, which I hope it will surpass upon reaching level 119. While it does not win for potency, where our Empyrean body wins due to its direct enhancement to potency, it definitely has the primary use which follows its predecessor.

My only complaint are that I wish the Spell Interruption Rate was not lost in the upgrade, that the skill had been raised by more than simply two points, and that the Magic Attack Bonus was relocated to the Chapeau. Besides that, I think this is perfect, and it is already our best piece from this set.



Atrophy Gloves.



I never thought the sight of Enhancing Magic duration would actually disappoint me, sadly, this piece of gear did just that. I know you meant well with this stat, but truly, it should have been relocated to our legs.

Besides that, I think these hands are a great bridge piece between something like Bregos, which we used before Adoulin to melee, and Buremte, which are difficult to obtain, the Attack/Accuracy is a nice touch which does make me happy, it shows some amount of care for RDMs who do carry swords, and attempt to perform on the front lines. The piece also holds very true to its original design in that very aspect!



These hands are a perfect upgrade for the old piece. The old piece helped RDMs land their attacks with the extra DEX boost, while also providing some Parry skill to help defend themselves, an all around great piece at the time for the RDMs who carried their blades.

The piece has been reborn with the Atrophy Gloves in the perfect way with DEX remaining their strongest stat even. This piece makes me very happy as a melee RDM, especially knowing that we are going to get a level 119 version, which makes me giddy inside as I see some attention to one of the most ignored aspects to RDM, being brought to me in this piece.

The only issue with it all so far as melee goes is one simple flaw which I find destructive. Thus far, Adoulin has only provided us one piece of melee focused gear when it comes to the five primary slots, Head, Body, Hands, Legs, and Feet, and that single piece is the Buremte Gloves. Do not get me wrong I love these hands, I do not want you to take away their melee stats, they are just as they should be, and are by far the best upgrade of them all when it comes to a comparison between their old version and its new reborn self.

However, my issue is I wish our melee pieces were a bit more varied. If we only have melee hands, the rest of our melee armor will fall short, and result in a weaker job as a whole because of it. Both the Buremte Gloves and the Atrophy Gloves are wonderful for RDMs like me who have the courage to stand up to a foe and fight them off with our blades, but giving us nothing but Gloves to wear in these occasions will not serve us well, we require other gear.

The only true change I want to this piece of gear, is for you to move the Enhancing Magic Duration enhancement to the legs. I do not understand why it was put on this piece of gear. In order to use this, a RDM has to sacrifice many things, because a RDM will want to maintain 500 Enhancing Magic Skill for their spells.

By using these gloves a RDM must not use their Duelist's Gloves +2, which give a massive +18 Skill. Without those gloves, we have a very difficult time hitting 500 Enhancing Magic Skill. We naturally cap at 404, with a B rank in Enhancing Magic, through merits, we can attain 420 before gear, common gear would be Colossus's Torque, Duelist's Tabard +2, Estoqueur's Cape, a pair of legs with +15 such as Shedir Seraweels, and Estoqueur's Houseaux +2. This totals at 478, now, with Duelist's Gloves we can attain 496, which means to hit 500 we need only use something like Zenith Tiara, or Olympus Sash. The issue is that without this extra 18 from the Gloves, we need to not only get both of those, but also the Augmenting Earring, and the new Dagger which has 10 Enhancing Magic on it.

Now, here is where everything goes bad. In order to get full use of these hands for the duration effect, we are left with no choice but to use this dagger, this dagger is by itself very weak when compared to other options for melee, we would be offering a ton of amazing stats to use it, however, we are forced to do so in order to hit a skill of 500 and gain the most from our spells. The only other way around it would be to swap it out, resetting the player's TP.

To me, this should be changed. These hands are amazing for a Red Mage, but at the same time, they force us to do something so detrimental to our melee capabilities in order to get their full effects. I would love to see the duration enhancement moved to our legs because they have the skill to accommodate this effect. If that is done, this piece would be perfect in my opinion, and my favorite piece of Adoulin gear due to the fact it is an example of melee RDMs everywhere getting attention from this expansion!



Atrophy Tights.



These are currently our second best piece in this set. These legs are amazing for curing, they beat out Nares, give us a great deal of Healing Skill, and have Haste which make our Cures recast faster, all in all, wonderful piece. However... While it does follow in the footsteps of its predecessor, it feels like the Skill is a disappointment when compared to how much I wish it had grown.



The original legs had 10 Healing Magic Skill, being brought up to only 13, rather than something like 17, which the Enhancing was brought up to, while I can not complain about this all to much, it feels like an underwhelming amount, and that brings me to my second issue with these.

The Enhancing Magic. When WHM Relic legs were taken from their level of 73/75 to 90 they not only got 3 Healing Skill in those 15~17 levels, but they also got an entire 18 Enhancing Magic, a brand new stat which were not on the legs originally, and in the largest amount of any legs to this day. Knowing that the RDM AF legs were at 15 skill already, and 10 Healing Magic Skill, I assumed that in their 34~53 level jump they would have grown to at very least 20 Enhancing Magic, and perhaps 15 or 20 Healing Magic skill. Rather than that however, the increase was only 3 Healing and 2 Enhancing. To me, this is very, very disappointing amounts.

When you pile on top of this small amount of Enhancing Magic the fact that we must give up our Duelist's Gloves +2 as mentioned above so that we may use our new Atrophy Gloves, it only makes the extra skill all the more needed. RDM is one of the jobs which carries the most gear in the game, and right now, we need to carry even more just for those gloves. Had these been higher, they could have removed the need for the new Dagger being forced to hit 500 skill with those hands, it would have made it more flexible for players like myself, but the increase was just to small.

Even with the idea of these hitting 119 in the next update, I expect them to hit 15 and 20 respectively then, and that alone will not aid this issue all to much. If you could put the Duration on these legs, it would make me very happy, and massively improve the set as a whole. The largest issue I have with this set is the Enhancing Magic Duration being put on the Gloves instead of these while these got such a short boost in Enhancing Magic itself. Please, please make this change, you would make a RDM very happy.



Atrophy Boots.



This piece is another piece which is great for melee RDMs, and to a point does call back to its predecessor.



Original boots were a piece meant to help a RDM survive on the front lines, which obviously implies a RDM to be meleeing, or at least wielding a blade. It is for this reason I think this is another great upgrade, providing Haste, Accuracy, and a nice amount of AGI/EVA. The only issue I have with these boots, is the fact that we did not get a very large boost in skill, again, and the fact we got no Physical Damage Taken on them.

I understand RDM is not a job which normally gets much Physical Damage Taken, however, the fact the stat is so readily abundant in the Skirmish sets made it vital that this piece get some as well. Without any Physical Damage Taken, its hard for a RDM to put this to use, their best use is clearly defense, however, we just can not use it for that, even Skirmish feet with a 1% or 2% augment would beat this for utility when being hit. Its for this reason I must say that you should add at least some amount of Physical Damage Taken to these.

Adding 3% Physical Damage Taken and increasing it to 4% with the 119 version would be wonderful, and make these very good feet for a RDM trying to tank with the new Shield you gave us in Skirmish. Wildkeeper Reives require a tank, RDM is able to fill this role just like a PLD if geared correctly, and I would love to see these feet as a staple piece for such a task, however, they will need this stat to stay competitive.

A side note to this, please, raise RDM's skill with Shields, if you truly want us to use them in any capacity or want Shield Skill to matter, we need it. We can only get 265 by skilling up, with merits we go to 273 before gear, but even with these feet as they are now and the new shield, our skill is only at level 358, which is far below that of a PLD still, its lower than the natural cap of not only PLD, but WAR too, which makes our block rate so low that even with the skill found on these feet, our block rate will not change at all unless we are fighting something that is a far lower level than we are ourselves.

I do not think it is fair to make the skill of a RDM with shields so low, I ask that you at least boost us up to the same level a WAR is now, a C+ rating, or possibly higher, such as a B-, and give WAR a B rating or so if you wish to balance it out, so that WAR is still ahead. I personally think RDM should be much better with a shield than they are now because otherwise, you are giving us shields we can hardly make any use of, and these boots are simply more of the same.





Stymie.



I know you wanted us to test this, give it time, and so on, you have defended this ability many times, and I can understand that you do not want us to give up on an idea you think has such potential. But I must ask once again, please, do not leave us with this ability. Even if you make changes to this ability, it has little promise to us players.

I believe you fear RDM becoming to powerful, we once had so much power we were demi-gods of this world, able to take on almost anything alone even while others had to throw armies at it to even stand a chance. If this is correct, your fear of this is not justified anymore though, you have placed restrictions, such as timers, you have created powerful moves we can not counter, such as Incinerating Lahar, and have in a way held back the job for many years. I could be wrong, you may not fear this outcome, you may be trying to improve RDM, and yet the players are not making use of it in the way you want, I am not sure. But what I want to say is, we are not a strong job.

For years now RDM has been excluded, exiled from events because we have been of nearly no use. Almost all NMs of importance in the game were made immune to our abilities such as sleep or gravity, bind or break, all because you did not want us to pin down the enemy, and make us overpowered, all in the name of balance. I admit, if we were so powerful, your right, we would be overpowered, but we are not. You see a threat where there is none, a shadow of a demi-god who has fallen from their position of glory to the slums of obscurity, all because of a number of restrictions put in place that seemingly target the very things that made us so very powerful to begin with.

Can I blame you for restricting some of these things? No, they would prove to be to powerful were they as strong as they could be, but they are not as good as you seem to treat them. Paralyze is a fine enfeeble, it prevents an enemy's actions occasionally, no matter if they are physical or magical, but the problem is that the activation is not reliable, and today, most people choose to attack things all out, causing it to use many special attack back to back in quick succession, the only time Paralyze has seemed to matter in Seekers for me is when I fear a monster getting a spell cast when Silence has worn.

Paralyze is but a single spell, one of our best, and yet it has such low use. I could speak of Blind, and how all NMs have such high Accuracy that even with Blind and Flash together, we can not manage to dodge their attacks, or how poison is so weak that its effects can not even come close to denting a NMs health. Slow does not even work yet on half of the monsters we fight now days because in an attempt to make monsters more powerful and more interesting you incorporated various races of monsters who of which use special attacks for their normal attacks, which can not be slowed, and Slow itself, like Paralyze, does not work against special attacks, though Paralyze has been made to effect these since their creation, while Slow has not.

The point I am trying to make is, Enfeebling Magic as a whole, while able to be applied, is not strong. You give us the ability to land a single Enfeebling Magic spell 100% of the time, but that does so very little for us when our spells are to weak to do much anyways. We know we can use MND to enhance Paralyze and Slow, or INT to enhance Blind, Skill to enhance Poison, but these do nothing for us special, most Red Mages cast these spells in high MND and INT sets anyways because without the high potency we know they are so weak they may as well not even be cast. But even in full potency gear, we can not make them strong enough to be in any way game breaking.

You explained that you do not want us to lock down monsters with spells like Sleep or Silence, but please tell me, what difference does it make if it comes from a RDM or a BRD? Bards have had Troubadour for a long time, and under its effects a BRD can land Sleep with near 100% accuracy, when paired with Nightingale their effect is similar to that of a Red Mage using Chainspell and Stymie together, but allowing Stymie to effect multiple spells. On top of that, BRDs have not only two Sleep type spells, but two Sleepga type spells native to the job as well.

In the end, it seems more than a little unfair that you would say RDM can not do this, when many others can, not only BRD, which I just gave you examples for, but a BLU can use Elemental Seal to Terror monsters or NMs, a BLM can do something similar to BRD as well using Elemental Seal, and if I am not mistaken, the new SP was supposed to give them a large Magic Accuracy bonus as well, similar to Elemental Seal, though I could be remembering incorrectly.





If you look back on your original ideas to make these new SPs, your original idea was well received, the idea to create a SP which would enhance our Enhancing Magic. This idea was wonderful, I said multiple times, your heart was in the right place, but you needed to make it stronger. I understand in light of what Embrava did you may have feared what it could become. Again, I must say, if this is what it is, it is not deserving of such a thing.

If you went back to this ability, gave us 3 minutes of double potency Enhancing Magic, it would be fair and balanced. Like Composure, limit the effects of the ability on Protect and Shell, do not boost these, if they are boosted make them last 5 minutes or something. I know 350 DEF and a near capped Magic Damage Taken effect would be overpowered, I agree with that, but what about everything else?

BRD can provide a ton of Haste without a SP or much time between casts, RDM would provide only 30% Haste, and only for around 6 minutes, less than double Marches and also less duration if you count in Nightingale and Troubadour. En-spells would be better, but require the sub-job of SCH, otherwise its a self buff only, the same thing goes with Phalanx, unless the player merits Phalanx II, even then, the duration is again very short, and against stronger enemies such as Delve NMs the effect only lowers the damage, it is not enough to null the damage, so this should not be much to fear in my opinion. Besides those, everything else is basically a RDM only effect, RDM would get a very potent Temper, Gain-STR, Spikes, and such, but they are not enough to be overpowered, they would at best bring RDM on par with other DDs at the same level for a few minutes.

This ability would basically be a RDM version of Soul Voice, but with more spells with a varied pool of effects, most of which weaker than that of BRD. None of this comes close to what Embrava used to be, and the most powerful effect for others would probably be Haste and Refresh. RDM was once the master of Refresh, would it be so bad for it to have the best Refresh spell at 14 Refresh for a few minutes that it could give to others? I honestly do not think it would be unbalanced.





I see a lot of potential in this ability, much more than that of Stymie, and while I know you want us to like Stymie, I just can not, I have looked at it from every angle, used it a few times, and I can not find it useful. Everything I want to land on a monster I can already land, there are no important spells that I can not already land, and while the argument may be made that while top tier RDMs do not need it others do, I have to ask, why is it we can not have an ability which would help all RDMs, rather than just the RDMs who are not on top?

I ask you, please, give this consideration, fair and proper, even ask the players as a whole, give us a vote, a say in the matter, asking in the RDM forums which one players want. If you give us this choice and we truly choose Stymie, I will accept it, even if I personally can not put it to use, but if we ask for the other ability, to enhance out Enhancing Magic, I beg of you, please, do it. I do not think it is asking much to give it a fair chance, and think it over, it would mean a lot to a loyal player if you would do this. I hope through this post you have seen my passion for RDM, and as such, can understand my connection to the job, and how much I really do hope you do this. If nothing else, I would love a personal response from you Matsui, explaining your thoughts on it all, or whoever is in charge of RDM.
[+]
 Bahamut.Zorander
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Zor
Posts: 2104
By Bahamut.Zorander 2013-11-13 00:41:26  
Good hell that's a lot of words.

I'll wait for the tldr version.
[+]
 Phoenix.Demonjustin
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 661
By Phoenix.Demonjustin 2013-11-13 03:15:52  
Bahamut.Zorander said: »
Good hell that's a lot of words.

I'll wait for the tldr version.
Give the head nuking stats like MAB/MDMG since it used to be not only a Fast Cast piece, make it so that its better at 119 than Hagondes, give BLM and SCH similar but better stats to keep them balanced.

Take away the body's MAB and give it back the Spell Interruption Rate, possibly fuse the Magic Accuracy on it with the Skill so Skill is 25, 10 higher rather than only 2 higher.

Stop making the only good melee pieces for RDM Hands, we need more variety, take the duration enhancement off the hands.

Give the legs the duration enhancement the hands had and give them more skill, 2 more skill in 34~53 levels(AF was 56 +1 was 75) is pathetic, especially when WHM Relic legs went from no Enhancing Magic at NQ(72)/HQ(75) to 18, more than these legs have, in their 15~18 level upgrade.

Give the feet PDT and maybe raise RDM from a F rating in Shield so the skill actually matters, on top of the piece being able to be used for a tank set, rather than being so easily beaten by Skirmish gear due to PDT augments alone.



Fix enfeebling to be good enough to be useful with this, and stop using excuses like Sleep or Silence when other jobs like BRD can use Sleep and Sleepga spells with perfect Accuracy under the effects of a JA that lasts a full minute with only a 10 minute recast.

If it is still insisted that this ability has potential, revisit the other ability which would enhance Enhancing Magic, make it stronger, and ask the community which we want, if the current ability has such potential than enough people should agree with it, we have had a week to play with it, let us pick which we think is the better of the two.



This is a very dumbed down/shorter version of my post, with a lot of details and examples removed. I feel like reading the full version is still much better than this, but if you do not care to read it, this is the basic idea of it all I suppose.
Offline
By Antisense 2013-11-13 05:12:13  
You should make your most important arguments (of which shield skill is not one) as succinctly as possible if only because it will be easier to translate if the skeleton team doesn't understand written English well. Appeals to "authority" and providing historical context both dilute your message. The devs do not care.

Actually considering the track record of not doing jack about multiple reports of additional effect magic accuracy for BLU spells and the like, the devs just don't care about anything that a non-JP player posts.
Offline
Posts: 614
By Aikawa 2013-11-13 05:59:52  
Lol I wonder if the author have ever play rdm? Or better if even play this game.

They announced that will be upgrading ARE gears, and what do you think ppl will use in the end even that the 3 sets will be ilvl19...

1. Lolbrd troubadour... Ya 1 mins of 100% Macc, for? Just lullaby, and elegy, not that you need anything else to land..l and the only thing is probably used, is to sleep the shark on bad groups...

2. Lolcomparing whm relics getting enhancing... Coz RDM needs more enhancing skills...

3. Enfeebling fix? Afaik you can land all the debuff on any mobs unless they naturally resist them, like casting slow on an earth element... -_-

Is fun that the author didn't whine about not getting hastega, haste II... DIaga III, poison 4-5, cure 5
 Phoenix.Demonjustin
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 661
By Phoenix.Demonjustin 2013-11-13 06:34:31  
Aikawa said: »
They announced that will be upgrading ARE gears, and what do you think ppl will use in the end even that the 3 sets will be ilvl19...
Yes I know they are upgrading our RF to 119, I fail to understand what exactly you are trying to say here, we will use it at 119? No kidding, the point of everything I said is not saying we wont use it, I am saying how to improve it a bit, because as it is fairly so-so and even at 119 some of the stats will not be very useful. The Hands will still be a pain to use because we are still giving up 18 Enhancing Magic Skill even if the Legs get boosted to, say, 20, the Chapeau will be Enfeebling Accuracy most likely, which conflicts with our Duelist's Chapeau, meaning as soon as that is upgraded this piece becomes nothing, or that piece remains nothing more than a Refresh piece, depending on its upgrade. The list goes on. The point of this is to make these pieces useful in a way that they will remain useful or become useful, such as the feet which right now, no use, only use it ever had was a kind of defensive piece, which is why it needs PDT and the Shield Skill needs to matter, otherwise, worthless piece even at 119 besides the 'stat vomit' on it.

Quote:
1. Lolbrd troubadour... Ya 1 mins of 100% Macc, for? Just lullaby, and elegy, not that you need anything else to land..l and the only thing is probably used, is to sleep the shark on bad groups...
Yeah, 1 minute is more than 1 spell, Square's excuse on why we could not use more than a single spell was due to Sleep and Silence being able to lock down monsters, so if we could use multiple spells, monsters would have to become immune to Sleep again. The point being, other jobs like BRD can already do it, its not an issue, unless they are saying BRD is breaking the game already in which case, why are they not nerfing BRD's ability to use as many Sleep songs in 1 minute as they want every 10 minutes, when RDM's ability would be so game breaking?

Quote:
2. Lolcomparing whm relics getting enhancing... Coz RDM needs more enhancing skills...
With those hands? Yes, and it would help get rid of a piece of gear we have no other use for. Even if we use our Duelist's Gloves +2, on top of the other gear we already carry, Duelist's Tabard +2, Estoqueur's Houseaux +2, Estoqueur's Cape, and any Enhancing Magic legs, as well as Colossus's Torque, you get 496. Because we are 4 away from cap we have to use a worthless piece of gear like Zenith or Oly Sash which has no other use for us at all, except Enhancing. Had they even just 19 on these legs, boom, free spot(well not really, would still carry Shedir Seraweels for my Stoneskin/Aquaveil, but either way...) but no, we got only 2 in so many levels. We could use more skill just to save that space, and yes, I compared it to WHM's Relic, because I find it sad we could get so little skill in such a large gap of levels when WHM could get so much from somewhere that never had it, in an even smaller gap.

Quote:
3. Enfeebling fix? Afaik you can land all the debuff on any mobs unless they naturally resist them, like casting slow on an earth element... -_-
You ask if I ever even played FFXI or RDM, then act like Enfeebling Magic is actually useful and matters? Tell me, how useful are any of our enfeebles outside of Dia III, Silence, Sleep, and maybe Paralyze? They aren't, because Enfeebling is broken, yay, we can land spells, but when they don't do anything worth while it doesn't mean anything anyways. I can Slow Tojil, yay, doesn't help, I can Paralyze Tojil, again, doesn't really help, maybe is Silence wears and he starts to cast Diaga III it might Paralyze it, amazing use! But no, Dia III, Silence, Sleep, that's it, when only 3 spells from an entire category are worth using, its broken.

Quote:
Is fun that the author didn't whine about not getting hastega, haste II... DIaga III, poison 4-5, cure 5
Hastega I gave up on, Haste II they did talk about a while back, should have thrown that in there actually I suppose, Poison is too weak to care, Cure V is pointless by now since we can get Cure IV as strong as we can, were ok.
[+]
Offline
By Antisense 2013-11-13 07:20:05  
Paralyze does cover Tojil auto-attacks, so there's another (marginal) benefit

BTW Nahtirah Hat seems to have 12 Fast Cast to go along with the Haste+5%. (This can be checked easily using spells with long recast, like Klimaform - 180 seconds.)

It had 10 Fast Cast before the August 2013 version update (the one where they added "combat skill" and other junk to existing items) but everyone assumed it still had the same FC value

No one knows Atrophy Chapeau's FC value (has to be checked by whoever gets it, then that person has to post the results somewhere), so there is the possibility Chapeau is a better recast macro piece than Nahtirah.
 Phoenix.Demonjustin
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 661
By Phoenix.Demonjustin 2013-11-13 07:24:17  
I'll test it whenever I get it, but in all honesty its the 4th piece on my list to get, so unless a friend does Head and I go with, it will be a while.

So far as the Paralyze on normal attacks, thats kinda my point, I know it has some effect, but its so small it is not really important, you can easily do without, the best use I have for it is when Silence wears in case they try to get off a quick spell. It has nearly no use in an alliance setting because the target only spams TP attacks, and thats the only time Stymie will ever be needed really, the only time I can think of in all of Adoulin I may have had a use for this ability was to Paralyze the Malboro NM for the GEO AF, which seemed near impossible to stick it to, and I did end up soloing, besides that, nothing else comes to mind in all of Adoulin thus far.
 Bismarck.Inference
Offline
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
user: Inference
Posts: 417
By Bismarck.Inference 2013-11-13 07:52:51  
WHM/SCH and SCH also have to carry around "useless" pieces to cap off Embrava/Phalanx/Boost spells, its just something that comes with the territory of enhancing magic. Frankly I'm surprised to hear these are going to 119 at all since I figured upgraded artifact armor would only be used as bridge pieces for newer players and nothing else.

Any enfeeble is strictly better than no enfeeble. I'll admit since the ilevel update RDM may have found itself on the bench for fracture runs, but enfeebling plays a very important role when the boss runs are new. As useless as you believe Slow and Paralyze are, they still reduce the damage your alliance takes dramatically, and as you said Paralyze even has the added benefit of unintentionally stopping something bad. Just because your WHMs can cure through an unslowed/unparalyzed mob, and your DDs can land hits without Gravity II doesn't mean that you should just elect to not use them and call them worthless, especially when its your job and you probably aren't doing much else as RDM.
 Shiva.Onorgul
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Onorgul
Posts: 3616
By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-11-13 10:07:00  
Any developer or community manager who reads through this deserves a medal. Sorting through this has got to be on par with slogging through the trenches in the Somme for three solid years.

Your complaints about the Atrophy set are overblown. Your commentary on Stymie is similarly bloated. It could be correct, but only a few masochists will ever know.

If you want to offer ideas on how to improve either of these, cut your verbiage down by 90% or more. Rambling about trivialities is amusing in conversation but inefficient when you're trying to provide feedback.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
Offline
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: Rairin
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2013-11-13 10:11:08  
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
tldr
shortened your verbiage for u
 Phoenix.Demonjustin
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 661
By Phoenix.Demonjustin 2013-12-11 05:12:14  
Well round 2 on the subject, sadly not posted to the OFs because I was perma-banned, and haven't made my new account as of yet, so, if anyone wants to convey these ideas on the Official Forums for me, that would be fantastic. That being said... I promise, Ill make this post shorter for all those of you who(understandably) don't want to die of old age while reading it.



Quote:
Stymie.



I figure this time lets start out with the bad so this can end on a good note. So, Stymie, we have spent a month together, and I must say, I still see little benefit in you. You provide me almost nothing a BRD can not get from Troubadour, almost nothing I can not get myself from choosing Black Mage as my sub, the only advantage you seem to offer me is the ability to sleep Skeletons, normally immune to my Dark based Sleep spell, but thanks to you, I can force an immuno-break which will allow me to land my Sleep spell on them. Besides this kind of effect though, what more do you offer? Square has promised us there is a use to be found, a place to fit you in, and yet, myself and others like me have found no such place, instead, the places where such a use could be found, we have shown you are not needed. SKCNMs are hard, yes, but Elemental Seal, Troubadour, these both allow for a 100% chance to Sleep the target as well as you, if not better, and that was the one place you may have fit in, the 1 piece of content that, at the time, we had not yet completed.

After a month together, I still want something else. I still want my +50~100% Enhancing Magic Potency. I still want an ability, better than one another job learnt at level 10, that I can get through a subjob.







Reforged Armor +1(RF+1).



So, got that negative part out of me. Lets move to the awesome part of the update, where, though my feedback was not listened to, we have great things to look forward to from it!



Atrophy Chapeau +1.



Right off the bat, lets compare this to its strongest competitor, or rather, its only competitor.



Better, in every single way. 2 more STR, DEX, VIT, AGI, INT, MND, 5 more Magic Accuracy, 2% more Fast Cast(*1), as well as 1% more Haste, all at the cost of 1 CHR, 34 HP, and 38 MP. I can easily say, Nahtirah will not be placed upon my head after I obtain this piece of sexy. Fast Cast, Recast, Enfeebling Potency & Accuracy, for both MND & INT, MDT, and even Nuking if you are like me, and lack a certain amount of luck with your Hagondes Hat! This thing, does not disappoint in any way, do I still think it should have Magic Attack Bonus instead of our body? Yes, and I still think the SCH and BLM Heads should as well, but I can easily overlook that in the face of the massive upgrade that exists in this piece. It beats out so many other pieces for stats that it not only is an upgrade in stats, but in inventory as well, an addition which is always welcome for a job which requires so much gear to be at its best!



Atrophy Tabard +1.




Well before, this was our second best Enfeebling Magic Accuracy body. Today, this is our best Enfeebling Accuracy for both MND & INT, MDT, and like the Chapeau, its even viable for Nuking provided you are unlucky with Hagondes. Past that, there isn't a lot to say about this piece, Enfeebling Magic Accuracy is its only specialized use, everything else seems to just come with the ilevel territory, it is undoubtedly a great piece for us, but part of me feels like thats only because we have no other 119 Bodies for RDM yet. I am sure it will last us a while, and remain a strong piece of gear for some time to come, but that being said, I also think once Estoqueur's 119 comes along, this may be for nothing more than Magic Accuracy, if that.



Atrophy Gloves +1.



Exactly like I did with our Chapeau, lets bring out the only true contender for this piece!



Our RF+1 is better in just about every way, more of everything except VIT, and our RF+1 has no Cure Potency Received, we will just macro that into our self cure set should the need arise. Now, the reason I even make this comparison rather than simply saying its the best and leaving it at that is because their differences are not vast. Buremte Gloves are clearly meant for melee jobs, the fact RDM was put on them is a rarity by itself, but, the fact it is a pair of melee gloves, means its stats are a bit different from what we see on our RF+1. When new Delve areas are released, specifically, the ones with our Yumcax Delve counterpart, the tides could change for this piece. For the most important melee stats it currently has a leg up by 2 STR, 2 DEX, 10 Atk, and 10 Acc, but the RF+1 also has a 4 level handicap. When this level gap has been bridged by Delve, we could easily see it swing in Buremte's favor, and I think its likely personally.

Now to part 2 of the Gloves. I know I said I would make this short, but come on, Gloves were the longest part of the OP, you should have expected it. This update added no new Enhancing Magic gear for RDM, at all, our legs are still at only +17, 2 above the normal 15 we have seen on numerous pieces over the last couple of years. The fact these still hold the Duration bonus to our Enhancing Magic, and no Enhancing Magic of their own, we still can not get our full use out of these. The Gloves are clearly a melee piece, but, to get our full effects from these hands we must change our weapon to a terribly weak dagger in order to cap our potency effects, such as Temper, or En-spells. Its for this reason, we can still only truly use this effect to its best when we are on the backlines.



Atrophy Tights +1.



Like everything else, ilevel has graced this with Enfeebling Potency, and so on. It loses in Magic Accuracy to Hagondes if you have MAcc Augments at a good enough amount, but thats not really what brings us to look at this piece. This piece lacks -enmity still, but its our cure legs, great amount of MND, great amount of Healing Magic Skill, and 10% Cure Potency, making it undoubtedly our best for the job. Its the best for Enhancing Magic too unless you are casting Stoneskin or Aquaveil, which we still sadly need Shedir for, but, an extra space for 2 side-buffs you can live without, everyone can make that choice themselves. Nothing in the cure department really compares to these so far as I know. Besides that, I still wish the Duration were on these, but, that argument is made above well enough, so I will leave it be.



Atrophy Boots +1.



These are TP & WS Feet. Their Challenger!



Ok, RF+1 have 10 more STR, the same DEX, 5 more Accuracy, and 10 less Attack, than Bokwus Boots R15 DEX Path have. RF+1 have more Haste as well. RF+1 should win in every situation, even if they don't, the difference is so minor in Bokwus' favor, its not worth the space. Past that, once again I mention these are not ever going to be used for defense, the Shield Skill will never be put to use Im sure, the lack of PDT really does not help these at all in that battle, and is why they are fairly lackluster in that respect. Lastly, these are unlike the others, they are not the best for Potency, the feet from Hurkan hold that title still, which means unless you melee, these probably aren't on your list.





*1: Some have told me they upgraded Nahtirah to 12% Fast Cast with the ilevel update, however, neither BG nor the Nahtirah page here reflect this.


This post is a little more of an assessment of each piece, rather than a critique, but all the same, I have to say I am much more pleased with these than the previous, some turned out better than I expected, others, about as well, or a bit worse, like the Legs getting no extra Enhancing Magic. In the end, take it for what you will, I still want certain changes I mentioned before, and repeated here. If you read, thanks for doing so, if not, please refrain from posting about how its to long or whatever, if you think so, dont read it, no one is forcing you, I am not shoving it down your throat, if you have the time to post a remark about its length, just use that time to read it anyways, then make a more useful remark.
 Shiva.Onorgul
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Onorgul
Posts: 3616
By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-12-11 05:32:25  
Still can't see what point you're trying to make through the stream-of-consciousness text. Even your summary is a clot of embedded phrases and dependent clauses.

Let's see if I can get this under 10,000 words:

Or, to put it even simpler: Atrophy +1 is iLevel 119, so it tends to have top stats. Other pieces offer more specialized uses, especially as some of Atrophy +1 is clearly tuned towards melee over casting, but isn't that the case with any hybrid job? Stymie is still a kick in the nuts.

I'm not saying the commentary is completely pointless, but with so much pontificating, you really need to make a synopsis.
 Leviathan.Protey
Offline
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: Protey
Posts: 685
By Leviathan.Protey 2013-12-11 05:57:16  
i was pleased for atrophy chapeau+1 until i saw Lithelimb Cap. Makes the chapeau just a casting piece.

Now it's possible to be able to TP in ilevel gear without a haste belt (so can use windbuffet) with this setup:

Lithelimb Cap (haste +8%)
Atrophy Tabard +1 (haste +3%)
Espial Bracers (haste +4%)
Osmium Cuisses (haste +6%)
Atrophy Boots +1 (haste +4%)
 Phoenix.Demonjustin
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 661
By Phoenix.Demonjustin 2013-12-11 06:18:36  
Shiva.Onorgul said: »
Still can't see what point you're trying to make through the stream-of-consciousness text. Even your summary is a clot of embedded phrases and dependent clauses.
My overly long explanation on how I view it all is probably due to the fact I feel people far to often say something without giving any cause for why they feel a certain way about something, or what drew them to such a conclusion in the first place, so I go overboard on explaining it in my own posts/words.

Quote:
Stymie: Still just as useless as everyone expected in the first place. For a one-hour ability, it shouldn't be worse than a nearly-mandatory merit ability available to a competitive job.

Atrophy Chapeau +1: A clear upgrade over current options, though consequently not specialized.

Atrophy Tabard +1:
(whine whine snark whine) It's only good because it's iLevel 119 (whine snark whine)
-- It's nice but lacks niche appeal. I would complain that it has too much niche appeal if it did. I refuse to be satisfied.

Atrophy Gloves +1: They're another small upgrade. I wish they gave me a perfect mix of stats, a pony, and a flying cat that dispenses harps.

Atrophy Tights +1: Nice healing piece, more beneficial stat vomit, best-in-slot for Enhancing Magic.

Atrophy Boots +1: Good for meleeing, not optimized for casting, Shield Skill is pointless in the current game.[/spoiler]
Basically.

Basically.

Not really, just wish it had more of a set in stone kind of stat, rather than feeling like a piece which is likely to be replaced so easily in the future.

More that I wish they didn't put an awesome stat on a piece of gear which shares the same slot with the best Enhancing Magic piece of gear available to RDM, limiting its use in the situation in which that piece of gear is itself, best meant for.

Basically.

Basically.

Quote:
Atrophy +1 is iLevel 119, so it tends to have top stats. Other pieces offer more specialized uses, especially as some of Atrophy +1 is clearly tuned towards melee over casting, but isn't that the case with any hybrid job? Stymie is still a kick in the nuts.
The melee thing isn't really an issue to me, I actually heavily favor it, but more or less I just tried to point out some pieces were seemingly going to be overran by other pieces of gear quite easily it seems, which to me, is disappointing. I do not expect something unrealistic such as to have this as prime gear forever, top of its class till the end of time, but rather I want them to be best at something for more than just their ilevel, so they might stay at the top of certain things for a while, as I think all JSE should.
[+]
 Shiva.Onorgul
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Onorgul
Posts: 3616
By Shiva.Onorgul 2013-12-11 12:52:00  
Phoenix.Demonjustin said: »
I do not expect something unrealistic such as to have this as prime gear forever, top of its class till the end of time, but rather I want them to be best at something for more than just their ilevel, so they might stay at the top of certain things for a while, as I think all JSE should.
I think the problem you're going to run into (beyond the tradition of Rainbow Pimp Gear), is that Red Mage just doesn't have all that much that can be enhanced which isn't already spread around other gear. The job has very few Job Abilities, Fast Cast is available everywhere (not unlike how Haste has been), and even Enhancing Magic Duration has cropped up on other jobs. With stat vomit and the diluting of unique benefits, the best you can hope for is what Artifact armor has always been: macro options once the next tier comes out.

Welcome to the new FFXI: nothing you own is permanent. Since SE has spent the past 3 years telling us this, I doubt a few stragglers protesting will change it (I suspect there are far more people enjoying the constant roll-over).
[+]
Offline
By Antisense 2013-12-12 09:11:57  
Stymie is hardly amazing, but it does guarantee that something lands that otherwise requires > 1 Immunobreak, a situation that ES and Troubadour don't cover, so it's actually better than ES and Troubadour in this respect.

ES + Sleep will never land on skeletons because at least one Immunobreak is required even to get a non-zero land rate. In other words, without > 1 Immunobreak proc it doesn't matter how much magic accuracy you have. Stymie effectively bypasses the Immunobreak requirement. (I brought up dark sleep on skeletons b/c it was the example given previously and needed some clarification vis a vis Stymie's advantage vs ES. Of course if you had light sleep then whatever.)

This situation where ES + Sleep "never" lands likely applies to Delve bosses as well (i.e., dark Sleep won't work without Immunobreak). If you needed to sleep Tojil on demand, Stymie does give that option while ES + Sleep definitely won't land 100% on Tojil, and may never land at all. (Stymie doesn't guarantee full duration though.)

Not an OMG amazing ability, but here you can take what SE gives b/c SE is likely never going to give anything more.
 Odin.Jassik
VIP
Offline
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Jassik
Posts: 9534
By Odin.Jassik 2013-12-12 10:24:34  
I'm not really sure what exactly it is that OP is complaining about. I loved RDM, I would have played it over any other job. But it just sounds like you're mad that RDM isn't BLU. It's a niche job at this point in the game, if enfeebles are needed, RDM will be there. But it's not going to ever be the party staple it once was. The reforged gear is true to the original and caters to the few traits and abilities that RDM has/had in the AF era. Stymie is another niche SP, but it's not like other jobs don't have nearly useless SP's. RDM has had one of the best for 11 years, how do you think RNG's and NIN's have felt all that time?
Offline
Posts: 885
By Sieha1 2013-12-12 10:43:45  
Most can just stop reading at the comment, die hard rdm. The rest sounds like someone that... actually used all of the af instead of you know getting better gear and moving on. I actually loled at the comments for the af hands.

They dont change gear unless they made a mistake. If you want to be what rdm was in the past for EG, use sch. If you want to... melee, then you can do that on your own time.

Having hope for what will become of gear is just ridiculous. Each update either provides mildly useful sidegrades or massive upgrades that makes everything else you spent your time on worthless. There is no such thing as perfect gear that does everything everyone wants it to.

tldr: rdm is dead and so is santa clause.