June Update (NERF)

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フォーラム » FFXI » Crafter's Crib » Fishing » June Update (NERF)
June Update (NERF)
 Asura.Reichleiu
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By Asura.Reichleiu 2014-06-13 11:41:27  
Phoenix.Dramatica said: »
Fishbotting is terrible gil unless you had an unreasonable amount of characters botting, which honestly wouldn't be much better than buying gil.

It is terrible gil, but its also gil that is being created. Without this influx of "Fake Gil" the economy will crash for a bit because there just won't be as much to go around. (at least for the first few months)

And while it is a bad source of gil, its still 1-2m a day these guys pull in per character while being AFK. Thats the key, you can still make gil in other ways and then supplement it by AFK fishing while you are sleeping or at work. Thats the draw here, not that its good gil, its EASY / FREE gil.

Every player will suffer for the first few months of this, not just the bots.
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 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-13 11:42:59  
Except I made more gil playing 45min than looking for minnows for hours+afk fishing with said minnows
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-06-13 11:45:39  
Phoenix.Dramatica said: »
Fishbotting is terrible gil unless you had an unreasonable amount of characters botting, which honestly wouldn't be much better than buying gil.

the RMT /tells I've got recently had gil at like $4/mil, at that price, you'd only have to run a fishing account for what 3 days to be better than buying gil. Still, I would put this nerf in the category with the blinker nerf except that we know in advance, which will give people dependent on fish gil to hone a new trade while stockpiling as much as possible.

Markets are mostly about perception, where value rarely fluctuates wildly. I don't see this being a large issue unless people MAKE it a large issue.
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By Asura.Reichleiu 2014-06-13 11:57:17  
Asura.Ccl said: »
Except I made more gil playing 45min than looking for minnows for hours+afk fishing with said minnows

I completely agree with this, there are better ways to make gil. Hell, I made my Ryunohige without fish botting at all. (0 fishing on all characters)

But the point still stands, this will have a temporary negative effect on the economy For everyone.

How many people are you going to sell clears to when none of the fish-botters have any gil now? Who are you going to sell AA/DM2 wins or items to?

The gil made from fish botting is generated gil, the gil made from selling currency or wins is just a transfer of gil that already exists. The only way gil is created is from NPCing items or killing monsters that drop gil. Gil generation on all servers will crumble when this is implemented. This will make gil more valuable and cause people to stop spending it like its water.

With a lack of gil being generated, this will hurt everyone for a little while. (key point, a little while)
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 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-13 12:06:08  
You guys talk like we NEED new gil being generated; thing is we don't, there are nearly zero gil hole nowadays back then we had 1m dynamis entry and ***, now we have nothing; there are more than enough gil in circulation for the numbers of players.
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By Zoltar 2014-06-13 12:07:45  
What's going to be the best source of gil then?

Dynamis and Salvage farming? Just going to mean more scrapping it out with other players and Dynamis congestion, but I'm fine with that. I completely agree now that there will be a temporary economy crash, but I still firmly believe it will result in inflation as the market stabilizes.

Remember how much things cost 7+ years ago? Lol
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-06-13 12:10:38  
Zoltar said: »

Dynamis and Salvage farming? Just going to mean more scrapping it out

Create value, not gil. NM drops create value by adding a commodity to the market, gil takes value out of the market by inflating the price of the same amount of commodities.

This is basic economics, we don't need hundreds of millions of gil being pumped into the market daily, we need hundreds of millions of items.
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By Asura.Reichleiu 2014-06-13 12:16:43  
Zoltar said: »
What's going to be the best source of gil then?

Dynamis and Salvage farming? Just going to mean more scrapping it out with other players and Dynamis congestion, but I'm fine with that. I completely agree now that there will be a temporary economy crash, but I still firmly believe it will result in inflation as the market stabilizes.

Remember how much things cost 7+ years ago? Lol

I do remember, and I also remember what happened when they made it harder to make gil the old ways.

I remember farming Alkyoneus with a friend of mine for 30m a pop and using that money to get my WHM every piece of gear it could wear. (Aristocrat's Coat 100m, Healing Staff 20m, Cure Clogs 10m, Serket Ring 10m, Astral ring 5m, ect.)

Then I remember what it was like to see that gear become worthless, items that were normally farmed were no longer farmed, prices of some things didn't change but it was harder for everyone to make money. You couldn't find mats on the AH because they were worthless at that point. No one could afford currency and other items of need. When that happened everything crashed. The same thing will happen here, but instead of it taking a year to stabilize, and instead of currency prices being too expensive, it will take a couple months.
 Asura.Reichleiu
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By Asura.Reichleiu 2014-06-13 12:17:52  
Odin.Jassik said: »
This is basic economics, we don't need hundreds of millions of gil being pumped into the market daily, we need hundreds of millions of items.

This is true and is a welcomed change, but this will not happen overnight.
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 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-13 12:19:15  
Everything went from uber expensive to cheap cause there was a duping trick they fixed.
 Asura.Reichleiu
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By Asura.Reichleiu 2014-06-13 12:24:32  
Asura.Ccl said: »
Everything went from uber expensive to cheap cause there was a duping trick they fixed.

No, earlier than that. Back when Peacock Charm was 40m and Leaping Bots were 7m. They made it so NMs like that didn't drop items you could sell because RMTs just camped and jacked the prices up.

I'm not talking about them fixing the duping. Thats a whole different can of worms.

Both are good examples of what happens when you fix these things though. They are good in the long run but in the short term people will be hit pretty hard.
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2014-06-13 12:27:08  
Zoltar said: »
What's going to be the best source of gil then?

Fishing is still a passable way to generate NPC gil after this change. Just now you're looking at 200k a day with heavy bonecrafting labor (new shall shell recipe/trumpet shells) rather than over 2 million.
 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-13 12:28:16  
Blinker nerf didn't change anything, why do you guys think that a weaker way of making gil will?
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2014-06-13 12:30:36  
Asura.Ccl said: »
Blinker nerf didn't change anything, why do you guys think that a weaker way of making gil will?

Because all the people who were doing blinkers started fishing hakuryu.

What gil-printing method exists now that's anywhere near the scale and accessibility of these two? Even if there were drops you could bot farm for fat $taxx (wisteria lumber, lollers?) it wouldn't get anywhere close to these because hakuryu and blinkers are non-competitive.
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By Trapjaw 2014-06-13 12:31:19  
Shocked it took SE this long to nerf the price. Us old timers remember the days of the rusty caps and how much that apperently '***' the economy but SE allows Hak NPC price to stay the same for 2+ years....
 Asura.Shystie
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By Asura.Shystie 2014-06-13 12:31:41  
Once SE realizes that half of their accounts are canceled, they will change it back. haha!


Edit: haha, I put [sarcasm} blocks...didn't realize it did anything.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-06-13 12:32:18  
ScaevolaBahamut said: »
Asura.Ccl said: »
Blinker nerf didn't change anything, why do you guys think that a weaker way of making gil will?

Because all the people who were doing blinkers started fishing hakuryu.

What gil-printing method exists now that's anywhere near the scale and accessibility of these two? Even if there were drops you could bot farm for fat $taxx (wisteria lumber, lollers?) it wouldn't get anywhere close to these because hakuryu and blinkers are non-competitive.

spark farming
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 Bismarck.Hsieh
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By Bismarck.Hsieh 2014-06-13 12:32:38  
Zoltar said: »
What's going to be the best source of gil then?

Dynamis and Salvage farming? Just going to mean more scrapping it out with other players and Dynamis congestion, but I'm fine with that. I completely agree now that there will be a temporary economy crash, but I still firmly believe it will result in inflation as the market stabilizes.

Remember how much things cost 7+ years ago? Lol
If you have multiple accounts, the best gil to farm is probably farming Kaggen/Pil/Akvan/Havaha etc.

This will not create an inflation on items. There will be a lesser amount of gil generated from NPCs. If at least, it would create a recession where prices dropped since there is less new gil put into circulated and/or gil removed from banned accounts or people quitting.

An example of inflation: about 10 years ago players found a glitch where one item from a npc would cost 100 gil to buy and would sell 200 gil to another npc. This would result in inflation because there is new gil being put into the system. Your gil is worth less to a seller.

An example of recession: players found abusing glitches such as item duping or generating gil or fishbotting are banned. A large amount of gil is removed from circulation would result in recession. Prices would go down because gil is weighed more now.

You can read about inflation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

and recession: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession

Zoltar, I still don't know why you would think there would be a inflation.
 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-06-13 12:33:51  
I hope there is a deflation but I doubt it :(
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2014-06-13 12:35:29  
anyway, the only reason this is going to matter is because people are a bunch of big dumbs. there's already an excess of gil in the economy, and it doesn't bleed out nearly as fast as would be required to cause any major economic shifts in the near future. but the people who are actually "smart" enough to think that fishing is a good source of income will panic and cause problems.
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By ScaevolaBahamut 2014-06-13 12:39:05  
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
anyway, the only reason this is going to matter is because people are a bunch of big dumbs. there's already an excess of gil in the economy, and it doesn't bleed out nearly as fast as would be required to cause any major economic shifts in the near future. but the people who are actually "smart" enough to think that fishing is a good source of income will panic and cause problems.

Blinker nerf had a minimal effect on the economy because there weren't many ways to remove gil from circulation. SE's adding a potentially BIG one this update with the guild changes, though of course I have no way knowing how important that will actually be.
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By Bismarck.Vurant 2014-06-13 12:46:01  
In the age of Multiboxing and Lazyness i think it is a bad move from SE and will lose revenue unless the change of price isn't as big.

If it is a big change, say like 2k or 3k per fish, I predict loss of accounts from people that will panic from this or get angry for the time they spend making alts with ebishu and cancel their fishing accounts.

Either way i think it is a good move although ill timed. Still though all is speculation atm.
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By Fenrir.Shznittle 2014-06-13 12:48:20  
Bismarck.Hsieh said: »
Zoltar said: »
You can read about inflation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

and recession: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession

Come on bro, as much the explanation is appreciated, gotta use better references than wikipedia...
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By Bismarck.Hsieh 2014-06-13 12:49:29  
I know one reason people would cancel accounts this month because the login campaign rewards this month sucks.
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By Bismarck.Hsieh 2014-06-13 12:51:31  
Fenrir.Shznittle said: »
Bismarck.Hsieh said: »
Zoltar said: »
You can read about inflation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

and recession: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession

Come on bro, as much the explanation is appreciated, gotta use better references than wikipedia...
If you want "better" references, help yourself with the references listed in the Wikipedia page. Bro.
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By Fenrir.Shznittle 2014-06-13 13:04:10  
Bismarck.Hsieh said: »
Fenrir.Shznittle said: »
Bismarck.Hsieh said: »
Zoltar said: »
You can read about inflation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

and recession: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession

Come on bro, as much the explanation is appreciated, gotta use better references than wikipedia...
If you want "better" references, help yourself with the references listed in the Wikipedia page. Bro.

Oh hey guys, lets believe everything we read on the internet and bathroom stall readings because they're such reliable resources...
 Bismarck.Hsieh
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By Bismarck.Hsieh 2014-06-13 13:13:29  
Fenrir.Shznittle said: »
Bismarck.Hsieh said: »
Fenrir.Shznittle said: »
Bismarck.Hsieh said: »
Zoltar said: »
You can read about inflation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

and recession: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession

Come on bro, as much the explanation is appreciated, gotta use better references than wikipedia...
If you want "better" references, help yourself with the references listed in the Wikipedia page. Bro.

Oh hey guys, lets believe everything we read on the internet and bathroom stall readings because they're such reliable resources...
I guess you never read a book or periodical or bother to check the references because most of them are not internet sources.
 Fenrir.Shznittle
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By Fenrir.Shznittle 2014-06-13 13:21:40  
Bismarck.Hsieh said: »
Fenrir.Shznittle said: »
Bismarck.Hsieh said: »
Fenrir.Shznittle said: »
Bismarck.Hsieh said: »
Zoltar said: »
You can read about inflation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

and recession: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession

Come on bro, as much the explanation is appreciated, gotta use better references than wikipedia...
If you want "better" references, help yourself with the references listed in the Wikipedia page. Bro.

Oh hey guys, lets believe everything we read on the internet and bathroom stall readings because they're such reliable resources...
I guess you never read a book or periodical or bother to check the references because most of them are not internet sources.

What kind of response is that? you're contradicting yourself...I'm not the one that used Wikipedia (internet source) as a reference...

You dont make any sense, try again...
 Fenrir.Atheryn
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By Fenrir.Atheryn 2014-06-13 13:27:37  
Fenrir.Shznittle said: »
Bismarck.Hsieh said: »
Fenrir.Shznittle said: »
Bismarck.Hsieh said: »
Fenrir.Shznittle said: »
Bismarck.Hsieh said: »
Zoltar said: »
You can read about inflation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

and recession: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession

Come on bro, as much the explanation is appreciated, gotta use better references than wikipedia...
If you want "better" references, help yourself with the references listed in the Wikipedia page. Bro.

Oh hey guys, lets believe everything we read on the internet and bathroom stall readings because they're such reliable resources...
I guess you never read a book or periodical or bother to check the references because most of them are not internet sources.

What kind of response is that? you're contradicting yourself...I'm not the one that used Wikipedia (internet source) as a reference...

You dont make any sense, try again...

He's not contradicting himself... Look at the references at the end of the wiki, and you'll see that they reference books.
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By Monai 2014-06-13 13:27:46  
Oooh a fish bot nerf? finally :O

The game isn't hard to make gil just gotta invest

in time instead of being lazy and fish botting away.

End up having people with relics mythics emps etc who

can't even play the jobs properly let alone try and

buy some meds for events @.@