Is Koga Really That Sick?

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Samurai » Is koga really that sick?
Is koga really that sick?
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By lhova 2014-11-16 10:03:37  
First off I just got a Moohnshade earring and it is sick! I recently got it and my overall dps improved significantly. I'm still getting killed by the koga Sams though lol. I didn't think Koga was that much better than Tsu. Granted they have an advantage over me because they are always the one being assited on in Incursion (and normally they start if off with a skillchaing and sometimes the mob is dead before I can even get a swing off let alone a ws) but the amount of swings they do over me (normaly double the number of mines) equates to more sc and destoying me on the parse. Actually last night it was 2 koga Sams and 2 Tsu Sams and the Koga Sams dominated the barse by getting 35% and 34% while I got 17% and the other Sam did about 7%. Granted that was the entire run in which we focussed on fodder and 2 mosses in incursion, but should I be getting dominated by that much simply based on weapon? Miki gauntlets are A15 and Str mods on helm and feet. My wsavg last parse was 4264 which trailed the Koga Sams 5372 and 4675.

ItemSet 328496

I would think with Tsu I would be able to ws more than Koga and hence keep up with the parse to respectable levels, but they swing more and they typically ws more on avg of 30-50. Dafuq?
 Asura.Kaoriasada
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By Asura.Kaoriasada 2014-11-16 10:08:54  
I thought a person was dying wtf
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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2014-11-16 10:09:12  
lhova said: »
I would think with Tsu I would be able to ws more than Koga and hence keep up with the parse to respectable levels, but they swing more and they typically ws more on avg of 30-50. Dafuq?

The main draw of Koga is occassionally attacks twice or thrice (combined with Sam's quick TP gain so you can easily maintain it). This means more TP, this means more WS. The only reason you should have more WS with Tsu than someone with a Koga is if Koga keeps getting it's weapon stripped repeatedly, so it can't maintain AM3.
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By Pantafernando 2014-11-16 10:14:45  
Also, oa2 or 3 procs in WS, and with 40%-20% respectively (according to bg), so basically, aside the DA, TA, QA that should be the same for all SAMs, 60% of the time multihits dont proc for you, Koga users will do twice and thrice the Fudo dmg.
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By Sylph.Systematicchaos 2014-11-16 10:19:15  
Pantafernando said: »
Also, oa2 or 3 procs in WS, and with 40%-20% respectively (according to bg), so basically, aside the DA, TA, QA that should be the same for all SAMs, 60% of the time multihits dont proc for you, Koga users will do twice and thrice the Fudo dmg.

To clarify... 40%+20% = 60%. Koga won't get multiprocs 40% of the time barring other DA/TA/QA on your gear.
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By Asura.Natenn 2014-11-16 10:21:44  
Koga is god mode atm, i do more dmg in half the time it takes 2~3 ppl
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By Asura.Failaras 2014-11-16 10:24:55  
Is it good? Yes. Is it good enough that those results should happen? Not even close.
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By Asura.Fiv 2014-11-16 10:26:28  
My tsuru is rusting from the tears of koga users that are unimpressive, koga is POTENTIALLY better.
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By Odin.Godofgods 2014-11-16 10:28:38  
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 Asura.Natenn
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By Asura.Natenn 2014-11-16 10:30:02  
Asura.Fiv said: »
My tsuru is rusting from the tears of koga users that are unimpressive, koga is POTENTIALLY better.
most tards spam fudo like numbnuts :( and they wonder why they lose to tsuru
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By Blazed1979 2014-11-16 10:31:09  
Asura.Failaras said: »
Is it good? Yes. Is it good enough that those results should happen? Not even close.
Those numbers aren't too different than what I have seen Koga sams do. Usually 30-45% of all dmg depending on how good the other DPS are and more importanlty if there is another Koga sam in the pt that is also good.
At best, another very good dps can hope for the high 20's if they're up against 2 very good koga sams.
that includes other mythics.
I parse a lot so this isn't based on math or maxing numbers, just what I observe to be the frequent result - good Koga sams annihilate everyone.
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By lhova 2014-11-16 10:32:17  
It seems though as long as you are able to keep up AM3 (which isn't hard) then is it fair to say you will destroy non koga Sams? I mean for both of them to double my parse I'm like wtf. I never really imagined that SE would make most mythics "God mode" weapons. I mean why would anyone waste the time to get an Amano or Masa right now (disclaimer I currently own a 90 Masa that I've considered tossing for inventory space several times over lol)
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By Bismarck.Marmite 2014-11-16 10:33:59  
A few pieces you could look at on your fudo set. Sub you don't need Bloodrain to 4 hit in ionis areas so duplus or pole, Sakonj+1 for feet, Metalsinger for waist(not much difference), Scuffler's for legs, Brutal instead of Vulcan's, possibly boor bracelets for hands and ring upgrades.

Just those I mentioned above will add more attack, str and DA. So that would probably account for your lower ws average.

I think it's covered in the SAM V2 guide if you want to check more about it. I believe Llewelyn keeps the sets up to date.

Also your tp sets are important and your dps can be improved by using gearswap or spellcast, although the latter isn't supported any more. Additional adding more accuracy as and when you need it (to both tp and ws sets), i.e. for higher level content.
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By Blazed1979 2014-11-16 10:35:03  
lhova said: »
It seems though as long as you are able to keep up AM3 (which isn't hard) then is it fair to say you will destroy non koga Sams? I mean for both of them to double my parse I'm like wtf. I never really imagined that SE would make most mythics "God mode" weapons. I mean why would anyone waste the time to get an Amano or Masa right now (disclaimer I currently own a 90 Masa that I've considered tossing for inventory space several times over lol)
Most mythics? I haven't seen any other mythics destroy the next tier weapon like Koga destroys everything else.
OAT combined with SAM was a bad idea. The only way Koga evens out with other mythics if they gimp its tp rate AND decrease its OAT% during AM.
Right now ***is broken as hell. Most of us who don't like playing SAM don't even *** bother anymore. When we do parse we ignore the Koga SAM and tell him to go brag to someone who cares.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2014-11-16 10:39:46  
Blazed1979 said: »
I haven't seen any other mythics destroy the next tier weapon like Koga destroys everything else.
Dragon's Whisker.
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 Lakshmi.Lenus
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By Lakshmi.Lenus 2014-11-16 10:55:33  
I destroy everything except Koga's with my Nagi np
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By Valefor.Sapphire 2014-11-16 10:55:39  
XI'd samurai roll to allow a 3-hit koga build is pretty damn cool to see in action.
As much as I hate seeing so many samurais around and the general decay in job diversity, its pretty fun to close darkness on their fudos with leaden salute :P
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By cervelo84 2014-11-16 11:07:33  
With Koga I sit at about 3-5% more dmg on the parse then a Tsu sam. Although I get beat in incursion when I go without a stunner. Disarmed... Lose AM3.. it almost isn't worth using Koga. I sit at about 1-3% behind a Tsu sam when I do Incursion with 4 dps cor/brd and whm CL126/127 It's sad :( I bring tsu now because I learned my lesson.
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By Bismarck.Stanislav 2014-11-16 11:14:06  
cervelo84 said: »
With Koga I sit at about 3-5% more dmg on the parse then a Tsu sam. Although I get beat in incursion when I go without a stunner. Disarmed... Lose AM3.. it almost isn't worth using Koga. I sit at about 1-3% behind a Tsu sam when I do Incursion with 4 dps cor/brd and whm CL126/127 It's sad :( I bring tsu now because I learned my lesson.

Your runs must a pain in the *** if you're not bringing a stunner *** that noise.
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By lhova 2014-11-16 11:22:28  
Bismarck.Marmite said: »
A few pieces you could look at on your fudo set. Sub you don't need Bloodrain to 4 hit in ionis areas so duplus or pole, Sakonj+1 for feet, Metalsinger for waist(not much difference), Scuffler's for legs, Brutal instead of Vulcan's, possibly boor bracelets for hands and ring upgrades.

Just those I mentioned above will add more attack, str and DA. So that would probably account for your lower ws average.

I think it's covered in the SAM V2 guide if you want to check more about it. I believe Llewelyn keeps the sets up to date.

Also your tp sets are important and your dps can be improved by using gearswap or spellcast, although the latter isn't supported any more. Additional adding more accuracy as and when you need it (to both tp and ws sets), i.e. for higher level content.

I meant to update brutal in the set so I figured that would upgrade. Also with Boor's hand I was using those but a lot of folks were telling me that I would benefit more from Mik RA15 so I use those now. Ifrits +1 might now happen (40 mil and none really around) plus I was hoping if I get the SOD ring that may be better then what I'm currently using. For tp my set it this

ItemSet 314836

I typically lead the group in acc at around 91% while the koga Sams are normally in the mid 80% range so I figured my tp set was good. I didn't consider repping the grip though so perhaps I'll put pole back on or how about the +10 acc +10 att grip? I can't remember its name currently but I know that I have it.
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By Asura.Ccl 2014-11-16 11:29:44  
Koga is the best weapon for the best job atm so yeah it is dumb.
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By Sylph.Jeanpaul 2014-11-16 11:33:47  
Every time I've encountered a Koga SAM, their performance has always been lackluster due to never having enough accuracy. I would like to see one of those fabled super impressive SAMs one day.
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-11-16 11:45:12  
Sylph.Jeanpaul said: »
Every time I've encountered a Koga SAM, their performance has always been lackluster due to never having enough accuracy. I would like to see one of those fabled super impressive SAMs one day.

Too little accuracy, using the wrong food, overflowing multiple attack rounds, generally gearing to avoid DA because they think it will lower their DPS... Having a Koga is a good indicator of basically nothing. People will play the job well or they will not, regardless of weapon.

@OP - Koga is an amazing weapon, but it isn't a crutch for poor job understanding or skill. If your Koga SAM's are getting 80% accuracy at lvl27, you should be hammering them into the ground.
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2014-11-16 11:52:16  
Not like koga can't pull decent accuracy, even if you have to gut your DA and drop some store tp for it. There's not much excuse for having lower accuracy than a tsuru, because they're losing significantly more damage than you are when they drop DA.

ItemSet 330676

930 acc, for your high level incursion needs


(Yes, it's really that sick. The only thing that will realistically compare to koga is abusing GEO MDB-/MAB+ on mobs that don't resist magical ws.)
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By Sylph.Safiyyah 2014-11-16 12:25:21  
Tsu and Koga are geared a bit differently for TP in Adoulin areas. Tsu isn't that far behind, you should look at your sets... easier to maintain a 4-hit with high accuracy builds on Tsu, for instance, and Tsu has a bit of extra accuracy on it, too.

On paper Koga should be able 10-20% ahead of Tsu?

Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Blazed1979 said: »
I haven't seen any other mythics destroy the next tier weapon like Koga destroys everything else.
Dragon's Whisker.

Yeah, there's a bigger difference between Ryunohige and the second-best dragoon option (Gugnir, since it's fixed now?) than between Koga and Tsurumaru.
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By Lakshmi.Amymy 2014-11-16 12:31:15  
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
Tsu and Koga are geared a bit differently for TP in Adoulin areas. Tsu isn't that far behind, you should look at your sets... easier to maintain a 4-hit with high accuracy builds on Tsu, for instance, and Tsu has a bit of extra accuracy on it, too.

On paper Koga should be able 10-20% ahead of Tsu?

Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Blazed1979 said: »
I haven't seen any other mythics destroy the next tier weapon like Koga destroys everything else.
Dragon's Whisker.

Yeah, there's a bigger difference between Ryunohige and the second-best dragoon option (Gugnir, since it's fixed now?) than between Koga and

Why Ryun so much better?
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By Odin.Jassik 2014-11-16 12:34:48  
Lakshmi.Amymy said: »
Sylph.Safiyyah said: »
Tsu and Koga are geared a bit differently for TP in Adoulin areas. Tsu isn't that far behind, you should look at your sets... easier to maintain a 4-hit with high accuracy builds on Tsu, for instance, and Tsu has a bit of extra accuracy on it, too.

On paper Koga should be able 10-20% ahead of Tsu?

Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Blazed1979 said: »
I haven't seen any other mythics destroy the next tier weapon like Koga destroys everything else.
Dragon's Whisker.

Yeah, there's a bigger difference between Ryunohige and the second-best dragoon option (Gugnir, since it's fixed now?) than between Koga and

Why Ryun so much better?
Because AM3 affects the wyvern and jumps.
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By Sylph.Oraen 2014-11-16 12:35:35  
Ryu is so superior due to AM3. I don't know how people underestimate bonus acc/atk and OA2-3x that procs in both TP and WS settings. Mythic AM is superb.
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By Asura.Loire 2014-11-16 13:58:38  
lhova said: »
First off I just got a Moohnshade earring and it is sick! I recently got it and my overall dps improved significantly. I'm still getting killed by the koga Sams though lol. I didn't think Koga was that much better than Tsu. Granted they have an advantage over me because they are always the one being assited on in Incursion (and normally they start if off with a skillchaing and sometimes the mob is dead before I can even get a swing off let alone a ws) but the amount of swings they do over me (normaly double the number of mines) equates to more sc and destoying me on the parse. Actually last night it was 2 koga Sams and 2 Tsu Sams and the Koga Sams dominated the barse by getting 35% and 34% while I got 17% and the other Sam did about 7%. Granted that was the entire run in which we focussed on fodder and 2 mosses in incursion, but should I be getting dominated by that much simply based on weapon? Miki gauntlets are A15 and Str mods on helm and feet. My wsavg last parse was 4264 which trailed the Koga Sams 5372 and 4675.

ItemSet 328496

I would think with Tsu I would be able to ws more than Koga and hence keep up with the parse to respectable levels, but they swing more and they typically ws more on avg of 30-50. Dafuq?

I'd look into readjusting what buffs you might be getting and the debuffs on the mob, your wsavgs for both yourself and koga sams are relatively low for the lvl of your incursion. By contrast doing 130 tsum avg should be around 6.5k and koga hovering around 6.8k. The dps % of your sams is quite telling as well. Having 4 DD in there I could see working if you had two melee parties and a mage party but I am guessing you are cramming them together in one party, so lacking geo and cor buffs.
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
ItemSet 330676

930 acc, for your high level incursion needs
I've only spreadsheeted with lvl 131 in mind for incursion Thorny but olseni belt never could beat anguinus belt on dps as well as dropping the af1 hands for xaddi unless taking account for haste samba.

Been using this when fighting super evasive war NM or the boss, mid set covers the other NMs fairly well
ItemSet 330677
918 acc, rajas probably has it pull ahead slightly
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By Bismarck.Misao 2014-11-16 13:59:51  
someone get some meds to this poor Koga!
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