Ebisu +1/Lu Shang +1 & General Testing

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フォーラム » FFXI » Crafter's Crib » Fishing » Ebisu +1/Lu Shang +1 & General Testing
Ebisu +1/Lu Shang +1 & General Testing
 Ifrit.Showmo
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By Ifrit.Showmo 2015-07-01 16:29:37  

Hey there fishers! So I was originally going to post this in the general fishing thread, but I ended up gathering a bit more data than I had intended to and decided that I should make a new thread so the information is more readily accessible to all without it getting buried/lost several pages later.

I had initially set off to confirm/verify for myself if the Fishermen's stall was indeed +5 fishing skill like the other stalls, since wiki has it listed as +3 for some odd reason (also due to the fact that I could never find any solid testing data on it, and since Advanced Fishing Support is said to give +2 skill while crafting gives +3, I wanted to verify that this wasn't the case with the stalls either). While testing, I also checked a few other things with the new Ebisu +1/Lu Shang's +1 I had recently acquired, and gathered some interesting data. Here are my findings:

Fishing Statistics For All Tests

Mega Moglification
For the first set of tests, I used a basic willow fishing rod since I wasn't sure if the new Lu Shang's fishing rod +1 would have any new auto-depletion behavior attached to it (the NQ version didn't). For this test, I was testing for the strength of the Mega Moglification's fishing skill +.

The first test had auto-depletion at 116 + Mega Moglification while the second test with 115 + Mega Moglification did not, so we know the first test hit the 121 skill threshold for auto-depletion. With that, we can deduce that 121 - 116 = 5, meaning the stall does indeed give +5 fishing skill.

Testing for Lu Shang's +1 Auto-Depletion
Next, I decided to perform the same test with the Lu Shang's Fishing Rod +1 to see if it gained any auto-depletion properties after becoming +1.

I was able to conclude that the Lu Shang's Fishing Rod +1 does not receive any additional auto-depletion benefits from its NQ counterpart. With this, I decided to put away the Willow Fishing Rod for the remainder of the tests.

Advanced Fishing Support
I then wanted to confirm the skill + value for the Advanced Fishing Support. The test is similar to the one above.

Similar to before, the first test with 119 skill + Advanced Fishing Support hit the auto-depletion threshold, whereas the 118 skill + Advanced Fishing Support did not. Thus, we can conclude that 121 - 119 = 2, meaning the Advanced Fishing Support grants +2 fishing skill.

About Ebisu's Hidden Fishing Skill +46 Proposal
I then wanted to take a closer look at cdgreg's proposal to Ebisu's hidden +46 fishing skill. I performed the same auto-depletion tests as above with the ebisu fishing Rod +1, and noticed something interesting: at 120 skill, the Ebisu rod had a slight auto-depletion, whilst at 121 skill, the Ebisu rod had an even more potent auto-depletion. I began to speculate that this meant 1 of 2 things:

  1. That either the combined skill difference of +13 (over the fish's skill cap) and +46 (the proposed hidden Ebisu skill) was breaking two different tiers of auto-depletion.

  2. Or that Ebisu just natively has its own auto-depletion which is equal to a fish's auto-regen (which would also explain cdgreg's stagnant result, as the two cancelled each other out), and that breaking the 13 skill difference above the fish's cap further added to the auto-depletion.


To test for this, I decided to record and time how long it would take the auto-depletion to drain the target's HP down to 0 in order to determine its potency, at both 120 and 121 skill levels, using both the Ebisu and the Lu Shang's.

I used this Stopwatch for my benchmarking


For Ebisu with 120 skill (not reaching the natural auto-depletion tier), the auto-depletion dropped the fish to about 10% HP in 50 seconds before I timed out. At 121 skill, the fish reached 0% HP in about 19 seconds.

For Lu Shang's, there was obviously no depletion at 120 skill. At 121 skill, the fish was fully drained to 0% after about 29 seconds.

From the above tests, we can see that Ebisu's auto-depletion at 120 skill did not come close to touching Lu Shang's auto-depletion at 121 skill, showing that they differ in potency. If Ebisu had hidden +46 skill, which would've easily broken the +13 skill tier above the fish's skill cap for auto-depletion, the potency should've at least been the same, if not more potent.

From this, we should be able to conclude that Ebisu does not gain extra hidden fishing skill+46, but instead has its own native auto-depletion property which is roughly equal in potency to a fish's auto-regen when your fishing skill is 25 or below its skill cap (which can also explain the stagnant effect when both conflict and cancel out).

Summary (TL;DR)
  • Fishermen's stall grants +5 fishing skill.

  • Advanced Fishing Support grants +2 fishing skill.

  • Lu Shang's fishing rod +1 does not gain hidden auto-depletion like Ebisu.

  • ebisu fishing rod/ebisu fishing Rod +1 does not have hidden fishing skill +46, but instead a native auto-depletion effect that is roughly equal to a fish's auto-regen (when -25 skill or below the fish's skill cap), which stacks with the existing auto-depletion when fishing skill is +13 or higher than the fish's skill cap.


I hope this data proves to be useful or at least an interesting read for you avid fishers out there — Happy Fishing!
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 Shiva.Mutiny
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By Shiva.Mutiny 2015-07-01 19:13:48  
I'm glad I'm not the only one to find evidence to refute Ebisu giving skill+!

I found that possibly fisherman's smock, ebisu rod, and advanced fishing support all provide a hidden bonus directly to the amount of stamina auto regen/depletion (unless I made a mistake somewhere). It seems that some/all of these do not stack, or there is some cap.

By digging deeper into the fishing mini-game itself, the auto-depletion value can be determined exactly. What I found was that they are in multiples of 60 stamina units per second depletion/regen, depending on the level difference/enhancements. I also found that for the same fish, and depending on how far over level you were and what parameters the fish "spawned" with, there were varying levels of auto-depletion as well.

Keep in mind for your tests, that the same fish of same levels, can spawn with different amounts of stamina, so the auto-drain time may differ from bite to bite. Also
Quote:
native auto-depletion effect that is roughly equal to a fish's auto-regen
is not quite accurate, but along the right lines I think. I plan on posting my complete findings in the near future probably on BG.
 Ifrit.Showmo
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By Ifrit.Showmo 2015-07-01 21:22:17  
Neat! I look forward to taking a look at your findings once you post them!

Shiva.Mutiny said: »
I found that possibly fisherman's smock, ebisu rod, and advanced fishing support all provide a hidden bonus directly to the amount of stamina auto regen/depletion (unless I made an error somewhere). It seems that some/all of these do not stack, or there is some cap.
That reminds me, Square actually made a few official posts before they revamped the fishing system stating that they were planning on making fishing skill play a bigger role with the fish's auto-regen/depletion, so your findings may help reveal what they changed or did exactly. I'll link them below.

As for Ebisu specifically, I believe all rods have their own stamina depletion value; I remember personally fishing with a composite fishing rod back in the day and having a hell of a time reeling fish in, but then I switched to a halcyon rod one day and everything was so much easier to deplete.

Shiva.Mutiny said: »
I also found that for the same fish, and depending on how far over level you were and what parameters the fish "spawned" with, there were varying levels of auto-depletion as well.
Heh, sounds similar to how the same mob(s) can spawn/respawn at varying different levels. Good to know!

If you were interested in taking a look, here are the official posts in regards to the fishing revamp and fishing skill:
New Fishing Adjustments Planned I
New Fishing Adjustments Planned II
Fishing System Renovation

Thanks for sharing a tidbit of your findings!
 Leviathan.Protey
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By Leviathan.Protey 2015-07-01 22:24:05  
could you also test if the stall gave any additional depletion? I know with just moglification: fishing it makes it easier to reel in catch, but I don't know if that is passed on to the stall which is mega-moglification.
 Shiva.Mutiny
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By Shiva.Mutiny 2015-07-02 06:06:10  
Some preliminary testing on Lu/Ebisu/Lu+1/Ebisu+1:

The ONLY difference I can see so far between the NQ and +1 rods, are bonuses to the maximum amount of time you have to reel in fish. There is no change between NQ and +1 Lu Shang's and Ebisu as far as how much stamina gets depleted on correct arrow input, or how much stamina is recovered on incorrect input. There is no change in how the rods behave (how long they stay to one side/how long they linger in center, and how fast they change positions in general). Also, there is no additional bonus to the amount of stamina auto-depletion between Ebisu and Ebisu +1.

This means:

Ebisu NQ = 30s reel time in normal cases
Ebisu +1 = 40s reel time in normal cases
Lu Shang NQ = 40s reel time in normal cases
Lu Shang +1 = 50s reel time in normal cases

I say normal cases because some fish have less than the normal 30s reel time, and Ebisu provides 10s bonus for certain legendaries (40s reel time on those).

Lu/Lu+1 depletes more stamina on correct input than Ebisu/Ebisu+1 does. Ebisu/Ebisu+1 recovers less stamina on incorrect input than Lu/Lu+1 does. Ebisu advantage is in the auto-depletion bonus.
A bit disappointing. More in-depth testing and numbers to be posted later.
 Asura.Akildas
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By Asura.Akildas 2015-07-02 09:13:33  
So other then looking cool Lu Rod +1 is a waste of time?
 Bismarck.Rosalee
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By Bismarck.Rosalee 2015-07-02 15:33:41  
You still want to at least do part of the Lu Rod +1 quest to get the glasses.
 Ifrit.Showmo
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By Ifrit.Showmo 2015-07-03 02:18:12  
Huh, interesting. So the only immediate noticeable change for the +1 version of each rod is the 10 extra seconds of reel time? That would be a bit disappointing if that's all they improved... Anything else would likely be server side so it would be a bit more difficult to test for since a large sample size of both rods would be needed in order to compare the results accurately.

A few things off the top of my head that the +1 version may (or may not) have enhanced:

  • Reduced wait times between hooking a catch.

  • Lower rate of line snaps on high level fish.

  • Lu Shang's: Lower rate of rod breaking on high level fish.

  • Lower rate of "Lack of Skill" messages on high level fish.

  • Lower rate of the "You didn't catch anything" message.

  • Higher chance of getting the "Angler's Sense" message.

  • Increased fatigue cap (very wishful thinking; highly doubt).


I'm hoping that maybe after some time has passed, a community rep might make an official response on the official forums detailing what has changed between the +1 versions.
 Asura.Kogasho
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By Asura.Kogasho 2015-07-05 21:19:02  
So im having this problem an was wondering if yal can help me out,
So coming back for this update it gives you a quest to obtain the +1
Ive fished up 100 fish RoE quest, talked to the npc in Mhaura, but its not giving me the quest to start the +1 even with ebisu +1 equipped... Is anyone else having this problem?
 Bismarck.Sageo
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By Bismarck.Sageo 2015-07-05 21:42:15  
He's not the quest giver. You need to go to Rabao and talk to Irmilant. Good luck!
 Asura.Kogasho
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By Asura.Kogasho 2015-07-05 23:09:11  
I did speak to irmilant in Rabao, there is no mission dialog when i speak to him with the ebisu equipped :/
 Ifrit.Showmo
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By Ifrit.Showmo 2015-07-06 00:46:20  
To recap with what Square posted:

Square Enix said:
Fish Favor the Bold
Players must speak to Irmilant in Rabao (G-7) after meeting the following requirements in order to receive the quest.
  • Be in possession of the Ebisu Fishing Rod

  • Have fished up at least 100 types of catches by one's own hand*

* Only catches reeled in after the June 2015 version update will be counted.
  • Have installed and registered the following content.

Rise of the Zilart / Chains of Promathia / Treasures of Aht Urhgan / Wings of the Goddess / Seekers of Adoulin / Scars of Abyssea

They also mentioned previously that if you received your rod via Mog Bonanza, you wouldn't be able to do the new quest since the initial quest is also a prerequisite.

Do you by chance not have one of the required expansions registered and installed?

Edit:
Asura.Kogasho said: »
but its not giving me the quest to start the +1 even with ebisu +1 equipped...
Ahh, I think I misread. You're looking to flag the Lu Shang's quest? In that case, you would need to speak with Jourdenaux in Rabao at (F-8) with a Lu Shang's fishing rod in your inventory.
 Asura.Kogasho
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By Asura.Kogasho 2015-07-06 02:00:54  
Ifrit.Showmo said: »
They also mentioned previously that if you received your rod via Mog Bonanza, you wouldn't be able to do the new quest since the initial quest is also a prerequisite.

Do you by chance not have one of the required expansions registered and installed?

No my ebisu was earned through the quest.

Ifrit.Showmo said: »
Do you by chance not have one of the required expansions registered and installed?

Yes they are all installed.

I'm gonna keep at it to see if it works if it doesn't I haven't a clue what is wrong.

But I fished the 100 fish needed for the RoE, I'm not sure why he doesn't want to give me the quest.
 Leviathan.Stamos
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By Leviathan.Stamos 2015-07-06 02:11:48  
Asura.Kogasho said: »
So im having this problem an was wondering if yal can help me out,
So coming back for this update it gives you a quest to obtain the +1
Ive fished up 100 fish RoE quest, talked to the npc in Mhaura, but its not giving me the quest to start the +1 even with ebisu +1
equipped... Is anyone else having this problem?

Did you do his quest first? Where you trade him a gugru tuna?
 Asura.Kogasho
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By Asura.Kogasho 2015-07-06 02:28:29  
Leviathan.Stamos said: »
Did you do his quest first? Where you trade him a gugru tuna?

Yes, I fished up over 100 black sole they have a star next to it
 Ifrit.Showmo
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By Ifrit.Showmo 2015-07-06 02:39:51  
Ah, there's the problem. You need to catch 100 different unique fish— not 100 of the same type of fish.
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By Madmardigan 2015-08-24 12:43:56  
While it's far from definitive testing, I've noticed that while using Lu +1 and Kachina Gloves, Liks have yet to break the rod. I get a lot of line snaps, but the rod is holding strong after about 30 caught Liks and probably double that in line snaps.

From some minor research it seems that Liks would snap a standard Lu rod fairly often. No idea if my results are due solely to the gloves or to the upgraded Lu, or a combination of both. Whatever it is, I'll take it.

I realize this is an extremely small sample size so your mileage may vary.


Edit - Tested w/o Kachina Gloves. Broke on the 2nd Lik.
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 Lakshmi.Ameilia
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By Lakshmi.Ameilia 2015-10-12 10:31:26  
Using the same Armored Pisces test as described above:

  • The Fisherman's Stall by itself grants the +5 skill. There is no need to stack other fishing furniture to get the skill effect.

  • The Fisherman's Smock provides no noticeable difference in depletion rate over the Tunica

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By Aeyela 2015-10-12 11:54:18  
Is the tl;dr: it makes Fishing easier so get it, or it's just a shiny +1 for bragging rights?
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 Asura.Kazaki
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By Asura.Kazaki 2016-02-13 06:44:57  
Aeyela said: »
Is the tl;dr: it makes Fishing easier so get it, or it's just a shiny +1 for bragging rights?

I'd also like to know if the Ebisu +1 has any different stats on it? Trying to look around for info but can't seem to find any