T2 Reisenjima NMs

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フォーラム » FFXI » Escha » T2 Reisenjima NMs
T2 Reisenjima NMs
 Sylph.Oraen
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By Sylph.Oraen 2015-11-23 06:17:30  
If at all possible, let's keep this thread dedicated to discussion concerning T2 Reisenjima NMs. We can make another thread to discuss the current state of BST, but it would probably be best to let this one remain as a place for strategy discussion.
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 Asura.Masrur
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By Asura.Masrur 2015-11-23 06:28:35  
Asura.Saevel said: »
You know you guys aren't fooling anyone with the crocodile tears and fake indignation. Attempt to deflect and redirect animosity isn't going to work as you've spent entirely too long flaunting the brokenness of BST.

The problem with BST's is the skill vs power curve which is horrendously low. Before the distance nerf it was essentially non-existant, minimal effort required for maximum effect. SE inserted an element of skill, which would be the ability to avoid danger and take calculated risks. It's still a hellishly low curve, minor effort required for maximum effect, but at least there is some effort required now.

Those other jobs, BLU, DNC, SAM (not so much anymore), SCH and BLM all have a much higher skill vs power curve. DNC, SCH and BLU can do some pretty crazy stuff but doing so requires a ***ton of skill and knowledge. BLM has a lower curve but still an entire order of magnitude above BST. BLM's need to have good timing, MP management, and situational awareness skills.

Now you can try to *** your way about that, you are gonna get called out for it. And while there is a huge rush of players trying to FoTM BLU they are failing so hard it's hilarious. What your seeing here on the forums is a handful of super elite BLU's who have spent years practicing and honing their skills. They can do stupidly crazy ***because of this. FoTM players who flock to whichever job is "popular" are going to fail as they smack right into that skill curve.

My my, you're at it again.

Broken record or going after the record? lol

#sipstea #eatspopcorn
 Bahamut.Foreverj
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By Bahamut.Foreverj 2015-11-23 06:55:05  
Sylph.Oraen said: »
If at all possible, let's keep this thread dedicated to discussion concerning T2 Reisenjima NMs. We can make another thread to discuss the current state of BST, but it would probably be best to let this one remain as a place for strategy discussion.


Asura.Masrur said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
You know you guys aren't fooling anyone with the crocodile tears and fake indignation. Attempt to deflect and redirect animosity isn't going to work as you've spent entirely too long flaunting the brokenness of BST.

The problem with BST's is the skill vs power curve which is horrendously low. Before the distance nerf it was essentially non-existant, minimal effort required for maximum effect. SE inserted an element of skill, which would be the ability to avoid danger and take calculated risks. It's still a hellishly low curve, minor effort required for maximum effect, but at least there is some effort required now.

Those other jobs, BLU, DNC, SAM (not so much anymore), SCH and BLM all have a much higher skill vs power curve. DNC, SCH and BLU can do some pretty crazy stuff but doing so requires a ***ton of skill and knowledge. BLM has a lower curve but still an entire order of magnitude above BST. BLM's need to have good timing, MP management, and situational awareness skills.

Now you can try to *** your way about that, you are gonna get called out for it. And while there is a huge rush of players trying to FoTM BLU they are failing so hard it's hilarious. What your seeing here on the forums is a handful of super elite BLU's who have spent years practicing and honing their skills. They can do stupidly crazy ***because of this. FoTM players who flock to whichever job is "popular" are going to fail as they smack right into that skill curve.

My my, you're at it again.

Broken record or going after the record? lol

#sipstea #eatspopcorn

Rook or any moderator can you give savael a warning not to spam
How bst is overpowered in every freaking single thread. People come over to look for T2 strategies. We would all very much appreciated this.
 Ragnarok.Inx
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By Ragnarok.Inx 2015-11-23 06:57:54  
Sylph.Oraen said: »
If at all possible, let's keep this thread dedicated to discussion concerning T2 Reisenjima NMs. We can make another thread to discuss the current state of BST, but it would probably be best to let this one remain as a place for strategy discussion.

Fair enough.

The bottom line is the T2's aren't particularly difficult, for most any setup. You just need to be aware that they get very spammy at low hp so if you are using a mixed strategy, like say on Hydra with its frequent use of physical and magic shields, be aware that it will chainspell strong water magic near the end and take precaution.

The only one I'd consider to be notably evasive to physical damage is Khimaira after it's levelled up a few times, but given its liking for fulmination spam you're likely best off using straight nukes on it.

For the most part, I'd say magic is the way to go. Only one we Bst'd was cerb and that was as quick and easy as nuking Ironclad.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2015-11-23 07:05:43  
Sylph.Oraen said: »
If at all possible, let's keep this thread dedicated to discussion concerning T2 Reisenjima NMs. We can make another thread to discuss the current state of BST, but it would probably be best to let this one remain as a place for strategy discussion.

Sure, the T2's are all very easy to do without resorting to burning SP's / revits with pets. The hardest part is getting the pop items. The cerb, that people were complaining about, was one of the easiest. Vex Attunment + buff + WS while paying attention and not being an idiot. The healer needs to have a decent reflex time with curaga and the party needs to discuss which barspells to use along with which moves to watch out for. Anyone in melee range needs a good -DT set for if they pull hate. We killed all six in one night without changing jobs, resorting to BST cheese and only wiping twice, both do to a misjudgement about a particular NM's AI.
 Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
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By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2015-11-23 07:13:50  
I miss the days where BST was nothing more than a solo job, and a mediocre one at that.

Anyone else?

;3
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 Ragnarok.Inx
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By Ragnarok.Inx 2015-11-23 16:34:27  
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »
I miss the days where BST was nothing more than a solo job, and a mediocre one at that.

Anyone else?

;3

And there was me thinking that more jobs being useful for high-level content was a good thing...
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By fillerbunny9 2015-11-23 18:02:40  
Ragnarok.Inx said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »
I miss the days where BST was nothing more than a solo job, and a mediocre one at that.

Anyone else?

;3

And there was me thinking that more jobs being useful for high-level content was a good thing...

how dare you! K.Club DRK SAM MNK Flavor of the Month ONLY!! dissent will be met with accusations of being a n00b, general scrub-ness, and non-stop complaining that you're doing it wrong.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2015-11-23 19:38:32  
Ragnarok.Inx said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »
I miss the days where BST was nothing more than a solo job, and a mediocre one at that.

Anyone else?

;3

And there was me thinking that more jobs being useful for high-level content was a good thing...

BST being useful for high level content is a great thing, BST <any job> being used to the exclusion of all others is a very bad thing. The problem arises when a job gets used on every single difficult target, it becomes a FOO strategy that if not fixed early can do long term damage to a games player base.

Anyhow this content isn't so difficult that you need something like a BST or RNG strat.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai
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By Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai 2015-11-23 19:44:11  
Ragnarok.Inx said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »
I miss the days where BST was nothing more than a solo job, and a mediocre one at that.

Anyone else?

;3

And there was me thinking that more jobs being useful for high-level content was a good thing...

It didn't make more jobs useful though, in fact it made less. SE doesn't balance things well. They took a useless job, buffed it to hell, to the point where it just outright makes other jobs counter-productive to use.

You aren't doing anyone any favours bringing a WAR, MNK, DRK--etc to content currently, you're simply being selfish in order to play something you enjoy.

Can these jobs accomplish victories? Sure, in the same sense that a cigarette lighter will eventually boil water.
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By Ruaumoko 2015-11-23 20:32:15  
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »
Can these jobs accomplish victories? Sure, in the same sense that a cigarette lighter will eventually boil water.
Oh man, this got me laughing way harder than it should have.

What people are recognizing now about Beastmaster is that they have found an extremely exploitable method of pretty much un-doing the previous nerf Square-Enix put on it. Summoners doing Astral Flow and Perfect Defense, then using a Revitalizer to get the timer back and a Megalixer to restore MP literally undoes the distance nerf Beastmaster received not too long ago. Now they can stand in range with little consequence and minimal healing almost as if they were thirty-plus yalms away from the target. Add to this Geomancers doing Bolster and Beastmasters burning both their one-hours before popping a Revitalizer to get their own timers back and you've got one incredibly broken FOO strategy.

This is why I think Square-Enix made a mistake when adding Revitalizers to Escha. Sure it takes 20,000 kills to unlock the thing so your average joe isn't going to be able to do it but it nevertheless cheapens what is really our last major endgame content to the point of you only ever needing three jobs: Beastmaster, Summoner, Geomancer.

While we're on the subject of Revitalizers breaking jobs. Scholars can now do infinitely more skillchains by burning their Stratagems, hitting Tabula Rada and spamming more skillchains, only to use a Revitalizer and get everything back again.
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 Ragnarok.Inx
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By Ragnarok.Inx 2015-11-24 05:33:57  
Verda said: »
I don't think it's as big of a problem as you're posing, there's basically 1 LS that I know of able to pull it off and they are JP. As far as a top end bst soloing really hard stuff, that's entirely tied to his ability to practice, practice, practice and if there was a reuse timer on dawn muslims I doubt he'd even be able to do it. I think ppl need to chill tbh, and point that laser like focus on their own improvement instead. Very few want to hear sensible things, upvotes seem to go to those that get emotional responses. So I'll just leave you all to your needless self inflicted misery and I guess we should just make a new thread because this one is obviously derailed beyond recovery.

Well said.

I'd just add that I really hate this bogus notion of any job being able to exclude other jobs at a stage in this game's life where PUG's are few and far between and 99% of content is solo/low-mannable.

It stinks of sour grapes and bitter egotism.
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2015-11-24 12:08:55  
Ruaumoko said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »
Can these jobs accomplish victories? Sure, in the same sense that a cigarette lighter will eventually boil water.
Oh man, this got me laughing way harder than it should have.

What people are recognizing now about Beastmaster is that they have found an extremely exploitable method of pretty much un-doing the previous nerf Square-Enix put on it. Summoners doing Astral Flow and Perfect Defense, then using a Revitalizer to get the timer back and a Megalixer to restore MP literally undoes the distance nerf Beastmaster received not too long ago. Now they can stand in range with little consequence and minimal healing almost as if they were thirty-plus yalms away from the target. Add to this Geomancers doing Bolster and Beastmasters burning both their one-hours before popping a Revitalizer to get their own timers back and you've got one incredibly broken FOO strategy.

This is why I think Square-Enix made a mistake when adding Revitalizers to Escha. Sure it takes 20,000 kills to unlock the thing so your average joe isn't going to be able to do it but it nevertheless cheapens what is really our last major endgame content to the point of you only ever needing three jobs: Beastmaster, Summoner, Geomancer.

While we're on the subject of Revitalizers breaking jobs. Scholars can now do infinitely more skillchains by burning their Stratagems, hitting Tabula Rada and spamming more skillchains, only to use a Revitalizer and get everything back again.

Don't get me wrong. My LS is quite guilty of cheesing NMs by exploiting revitalizers. But tbh, I think both those and brews were added now to combat a problem that SE knows exists now, and is only going to get worse.

The majority of people evidently can't find a group. Or don't want to. Aeonics are going to require you to kill things like WoC, and whatever possibly harder ***they add to Reisenjima. Right now large, developed groups like mine can use these tools to just blast through content with little to no issue. But later on, people are going to HAVE to use these win things, because suddenly there isn't anyone playing Geo/Cor/Brd. Outside of multibox situations anyway. Sub numbers are going to go down, it's just an eventuality. By giving smaller groups, or even solo players a way to handle this super difficult content, you might be able to retain players who want to make Aeonics.

Or maybe not. Who knows.

TL;DR Right now these temp items make everything super easy, later on they might be required.
 Ragnarok.Inx
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By Ragnarok.Inx 2015-11-24 16:28:57  
Really curious, how many SMN's are there out there with >20k kills logged in Escha?

We just use a PLD like "real" (ha!) parties do, because after all BST is just a DD. Its advantage is that it requires less backline healing than most because keeping the pet alive is the master's job alone.

And seriously, the main use of Revitalizers for BST is to get Run Wild back after the pet dies without waiting 10-15 mins for the timer to reset. The accuracy from that is the deal-breaker on high-level targets, not familiar or unleash, which merely speed things up a bit and are never necessary.

Example: Did a bunch of Maju (peiste t3) this afternoon;

Our setup: PLD, BST, BST, COR, GEO, RDM.

Easy prey, and not a SMN in sight.
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By Afania 2015-11-24 20:32:47  
Ragnarok.Inx said: »
Really curious, how many SMN's are there out there with >20k kills logged in Escha?


Even if there aren't alot of people with revitalizes access now, I bet in 6 months everyone and their mother would have access, it's just the matter of time.
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 Bismarck.Zuidar
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By Bismarck.Zuidar 2016-02-24 19:32:32  
Anyone willing to share thoughts on setups and strats on Bashmu?
Only killed it once for clear and haven't gotten around to farming for the staff.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2016-02-24 19:34:38  
Heard a few reports that using a melee fragmentation skillchain while magic shield is up will break the head, at which point you can easily burst it down.

Personally, I use an all-mage setup and win 70-80% of pops, sometimes magic shield spam is too frequent though and I time out.
 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2016-02-24 19:51:27  
pop->people stun it while sch readies gravitation/geo malaise+whatevers->comet/death mb and pray it dies is usually how i go about doing it
 Asura.Cyleena
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By Asura.Cyleena 2016-02-24 22:03:18  
Blue mage works well on it as well. Done it with whm, 2x geo, 2x blue, sch.
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 Sylph.Oraen
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By Sylph.Oraen 2016-02-29 14:21:12  
That's pretty much our strategy. You can replace the COR with any buffer, or keep it around if their melee sets are solid. Take into consideration that our melees are very well-geared, but with proper support, this is now about a 3 minute fight.

Our most recent fights actually didn't have a dedicated healer. We just relied on GEOs keeping Silence up as much as possible. I was the BLU in charge of White Wind, the other BLU handled Winds of Promy for the flash spikes. Went very smoothly.

EDIT: Our WHM was substituted with a PLD, should have mentioned that. It's actually very important to keep the mob from meleeing the DDs, as he starts hitting damn hard after a few level-ups.
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By Sylph.Parshias 2016-02-29 14:21:14  
Asura.Meekia said: »
We beat all of the T2 quite easily with a mage setup but old Shuck gave us a lot of problems. We only tried it twice tho. But from what i read you have to treat it like Sarama? BLUx2 WHM GEO GEO COR/BRD (whatever as third). Would that work?

You might want to bring a tank, but you've got the general idea.

We did it recently with PLD RDM - BLU BLU THF GEO GEO GEO. Old Shuck heavily resists magic damage, (we tried a mage strat before, and BLMs were hitting 20k-30k Death bursts, as opposed to the 99999 they might hit on something like Maju) so melee is the way to go. As long as you can deal with his nasty AoE damage, and have enough support to boost accuracy in case he levels up too much, you should be fine. In our case, one of the GEOs used Vex/Attunement and one of the BLUs had a very nice White Wind set. In your proposed set-up, the WHM should be able to handle things with Curagas.
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2016-02-29 14:21:26  
Yes, that works. Just make sure no one is standing behind him or Scorching Lash will 1-shot everyone.
 
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 Ragnarok.Phuoc
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By Ragnarok.Phuoc 2016-02-29 18:59:50  
Quetzalcoatl.Kenrusai said: »
I miss the days where BST was nothing more than a solo job, and a mediocre one at that.

Anyone else?

;3

I bet you miss those times when ranger was useful-

anyone else?

;3
 
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By Falafel 2017-04-29 17:29:45  
Please nerf more, distance nerf not enough.

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Bahamut.Tychefm said: »
Silly BSTs.

Asura.Saevel said: »
"easy mode FFXI".

Cerberus.Tidis said: »
BST is overpowered still

Ruaumoko said: »
Adding the Revitalizer to Escha might have been a bad idea on SE's part.

Asura.Saevel said: »
the brokenness of BST.

Asura.Saevel said: »
The problem with BST's is the skill vs power curve which is horrendously low.

I agree with the above.
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