Guttler III: Afterglow

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
言語: JP EN FR DE
日本語版のFFXIVPRO利用したい場合は、上記の"JP"を設定して、又はjp.ffxivpro.comを直接に利用してもいいです
users online
フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Beast Master » Guttler III: Afterglow
Guttler III: Afterglow
First Page 2
Offline
Posts: 108
By KnifeKatRengar 2016-02-10 00:22:32  
Guttler (Level 119 III) Lv99 iLv119 Axe DMG:197 Delay:280 Attack+60
Magic Damage+155
Axe skill +269
Parrying skill +269
Magic Accuracy skill +228
"Onslaught" Aftermath (including pets): Attack+10% Afterglow
Job: BST

Discuss. Pros/Cons: Possibility of melee BST coming back? Etc.
 Phoenix.Trinironnie
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 61
By Phoenix.Trinironnie 2016-02-10 08:14:17  
I need a reason to upgrade my 75 guttler lol..
Offline
Posts: 421
By Felgarr 2016-02-10 08:25:31  
I havent used my guttler since getting aymur, but the Aftermath includes pets now, thats kinda nice.
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [80 days between previous and next post]
Offline
Posts: 370
By Raborn 2016-04-30 18:36:15  
I'd be more down if it were a 10% increase to attack and accuracy to pets.
But I am making a Guttler and taking it to 99 v3, if and when I do I'll tell ya how it works out.
Offline
Posts: 892
By Xilk 2016-05-06 11:38:32  
+10% attack can be a better bonus to attack than Aymur for some pets, not all. It'll be a little tricky on finding this line exactly.

However, The tp bonus for ready moves still makes Aymur #1 imo.
 Shiva.Malthar
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Malthar
Posts: 333
By Shiva.Malthar 2016-05-10 00:05:13  
I aferglowed Guttler 119. It's awesome. The tiger gets over 3k attack when AM is up and it transforms the pet from a beast into a monster. And Onslaught was doing amazing damage as well. On top of that, the aftermath now lasts 3 minutes and seems to overwrite itself. I don't know if the choke effect has increased, but the extra VIT down adds to the damage. I'm actually using the afterglowed Guttler more than my Aymur. My next project, after afterglowing my Burtgang, will be to afterglow my Aymur. I'll let you know.
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [144 days between previous and next post]
Offline
Posts: 34
By Zyx1337 2016-09-30 19:02:34  
Is it worth building? :o Seems Aymur is just all around better
 Leviathan.Andret
Offline
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
user: Andret
Posts: 496
By Leviathan.Andret 2016-09-30 20:20:32  
It's useful... in some situations... I have it and I can say that it's half and half. This is because most of the time I can not hit anything worth talking about - without dedicated DD gear - and all of the time I tend to spam Ready moves.

Onslaught deals decent damage. I don't have WS gear but it can dish out 2-5k on lv125 content without any DD gear.

I think the TP bonus on Aymur would do better but if I ever find meleeing then I would definitely use Guttler on my main hand (might use Aymur on my off-hand if the TP bonus works off-hand).
Offline
Posts: 34
By Zyx1337 2016-09-30 20:39:02  
Hmmm, Wouldn't the AM3 from Mythic just always out do Guttler? I imagine after hitting AM3 you can consistently SC with your pet. Tegmina/Primal rend. While still making solid use of your charges.

I'm really wanting to justify building the Guttler but it just seems to me Aymur main hand will win 9/10
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [121 days between previous and next post]
 Bahamut.Genryu
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Genryu
Posts: 49
By Bahamut.Genryu 2017-01-29 14:12:47  
Zyx1337 said: »
I'm really wanting to justify building the Guttler but it just seems to me Aymur main hand will win 9/10

A bit of a necrobump, but I really wanted a little time to put mine through its paces before weighing in on the discussion. I cannot speak for the Aymur as I am still a long ways off completing mine, but I finally completed my Guttler(AM3) earlier last month, and after having a few weeks to play around with it I am certainly not disappointed.

Simply put, Guttler has been a game changer, and improved my damage output way more than I would have expected. The big selling point for me, and one that I have not seen mentioned (Probably because BST melee is frowned upon nowadays) is that Onslaught can double darkness, which opens up the floor to some really nice multi-step solo skill chain options, especially as we can get our pets involved to extend the chains whilst we rebuild TP.

My bread and butter SC, which is very basic and easy to pull off is now:

Onslaught > Teg.Buffet = Darkness > Onslaught = Double Darkness.

Which can put out some pretty nice spike damage, especially when you get a multi-hit proc on your closer:



However, with a little practice and experience you can take things a step further and start playing off of your trusts WS's when solo to perform 4 or 5 step skill chains, especially trusts that are fairly reliable in their SC behaviour.

I am still working towards my Aymur, and cannot compare two very different weapons. But in response to the OP's original (albeit, now quite old) question, Guttler has certainly made melee'ing with pet much more viable again (Of course that is situational depending on what you are fighting). I typically /dnc for the skillchain bonus as well as Reverse Florish (Which isn't required, but makes multi-stepping much easier)

The one thing I want to do now, is put together and experiment with a Skillchain Damage+ gearset, and see how viable that is in improving overall damage as opposed to just trying to maximise WS damage.
[+]
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
Offline
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Trulusia
Posts: 1117
By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2017-01-29 16:55:56  
Bahamut.Genryu said: »
The big selling point for me, and one that I have not seen mentioned (Probably because BST melee is frowned upon nowadays) is that Onslaught can double darkness

Cloudsplitter is already Darkness, Primal Rend is already Gravitation. Onslaught does have value in a setup where you A. Need physical damage and B. Need the attack.

I realize you don't have Aymur yet, but between Aymur and Tri-Edge there isn't much use for Guttler save for a handful of instances. Aymur is so goddamn good at everything that it's hard to justify the money on a Guttler for most people, and Tri-Edge is really *** good and essentially free.

That said, mighty fine Darkness you have there.
 Fenrir.Sathicus
Offline
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: SathQuetz
Posts: 282
By Fenrir.Sathicus 2017-01-30 08:55:09  
Also, not for nothing, but Guttler does zero for magic readies. I'd say if you're choosing a RMEA axe solely on physical readies you're not getting enough mileage out of your weapon or your BST in general.

Non-CP example: Kill all floors in omen.

Once objectives are done I have our 1-2 Idris GEOs change to Indi-Languor and Indi-Malaise and follow me around. Fireball -> diaga x2 -> Fireball + -ra2 spam = round of 7-10 monsters dead in one volley of attacks without any danger to the GEOs whatsoever. Rinse, repeat until the floor is cleared. Takes 2 seconds to change indis back and forth. I use Lizard on all objective floors for easy on-demand Fusion SC for 30k MB objective, cleaving, and quick kill N mobs while the other DD focus on stuff like WS# / 6-step SC / etc.

BST should be about much more than Tiger or Chapuli, if for no other reason than unless you have Falkirk's melee sets you're going to get ***on by any RMEA DD with a pulse anyway. Tri-edge with Mistral Axe spam would probably the one way to close the gap effectively.

Edit: In situations where you have proper buffs and good MA / TP sets, and are using TP fast enough, using readies is actually a decent DPS loss. Granted this should not be the benchmark of what you do as BST, but it is definitely worth realizing as an option.
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
Offline
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Trulusia
Posts: 1117
By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2017-01-30 20:53:23  
Fenrir.Sathicus said: »
Tri-edge with Mistral Axe spam would probably the one way to close the gap effectively.

Axe covers every skillchain element except light, Triedge increases skillchain damage, just about every Axe WS is pretty decent, they have a pet to extend chains out. Pls do skillchains.

Also, if whatever you are fighting doesn't resist magic and you have malaise going you will most likely get more out of Cloudspliter if you wanted to spam it.
 Fenrir.Sathicus
Offline
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: SathQuetz
Posts: 282
By Fenrir.Sathicus 2017-01-30 21:07:52  
Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: »
Fenrir.Sathicus said: »
Tri-edge with Mistral Axe spam would probably the one way to close the gap effectively.

Axe covers every skillchain element except light, Triedge increases skillchain damage, just about every Axe WS is pretty decent, they have a pet to extend chains out. Pls do skillchains.

Also, if whatever you are fighting doesn't resist magic and you have malaise going you will most likely get more out of Cloudspliter if you wanted to spam it.

CS is definitely ideal. I'm talking mostly in zerg situations where you have idris frailty / haste / fury + SAM / Miser rolls etc, etc. Granted it's rare you'd be on BST for that scenario, but in that scenario, you're not skillchaining anything and your best bet is spam MA.

Edit: I do take exception to the statement that "just about every Axe WS is pretty decent". If anything, I'd say they're largely trash with only a few competitive ones.
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
Offline
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Trulusia
Posts: 1117
By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2017-01-30 21:31:42  
Fenrir.Sathicus said: »
Edit: I do take exception to the statement that "just about every Axe WS is pretty decent". If anything, I'd say they're largely trash with only a few competitive ones.

I should rephrase. "Of the WS you actually have a reason to use, they are all pretty decent." I stand by that. Ruinator is the worst of the bunch and it's still way better than Exenterator, Shijin Spiral or Requiescat. Mistral Axe and Decimation are both solid Fusion options. Primal Rend and Cloudsplitter are both great if you are buffing for them, and if you aren't BST is one of the few jobs that can inflict MDB down.

But there are times when Primal and Cloudsplitter just won't work, so there is that.
 Bahamut.Genryu
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Genryu
Posts: 49
By Bahamut.Genryu 2017-02-02 11:08:42  
Absolutely agree, Aymur has always been the dream for me, and I am slowly working my way towards that longtime goal, as I said I wasn't trying to compare two very different weapons, just show that Guttler has a lot more potential than people give it credit for.

As for Tri-edge, I was actually torn about starting one, however I already had a near completed Guttler that I started many years ago (Around the 85 lvl cap when solo BST Dynamis first became viable), and it had been gathering dust, partially finished in my MH forever. My second issue with Tri-Edge was lack of solid info, I could find very few concrete testimonials on the weapon, or most aeonics in general (Outside of the popular ones, Gun, Dagger, Sword etc).

From what I have been told, Aeonics dont benefit from the 40% WS damage bonus of Mythics and Relics (And Ruinator has already fallen down the WS hierarchy in recent years), skill chaining also requires a lot more attention to detail due to the aftermath mechanics. That might not be a problem when you have good support and human skillchain partners, but when you are almost exclusively solo like me (At least on BST), I am not sure how viable sitting on excess TP in order to trigger the lv4 skillchains is (With Guttler I can spam at 1000 with no loss in damage, and keep aftermath up just fine).
 Odin.Drakenv
Offline
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Drakenv
Posts: 3458
By Odin.Drakenv 2017-02-02 11:38:47  
Hmmm interesting information about gutler. Wish I had more room to play beast more lol
 Fenrir.Sathicus
Offline
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: SathQuetz
Posts: 282
By Fenrir.Sathicus 2017-02-02 12:09:32  
Bahamut.Genryu said: »
Absolutely agree, Aymur has always been the dream for me, and I am slowly working my way towards that longtime goal, as I said I wasn't trying to compare two very different weapons, just show that Guttler has a lot more potential than people give it credit for.

As for Tri-edge, I was actually torn about starting one, however I already had a near completed Guttler that I started many years ago (Around the 85 lvl cap when solo BST Dynamis first became viable), and it had been gathering dust, partially finished in my MH forever. My second issue with Tri-Edge was lack of solid info, I could find very few concrete testimonials on the weapon, or most aeonics in general (Outside of the popular ones, Gun, Dagger, Sword etc).

From what I have been told, Aeonics dont benefit from the 40% WS damage bonus of Mythics and Relics (And Ruinator has already fallen down the WS hierarchy in recent years), skill chaining also requires a lot more attention to detail due to the aftermath mechanics. That might not be a problem when you have good support and human skillchain partners, but when you are almost exclusively solo like me (At least on BST), I am not sure how viable sitting on excess TP in order to trigger the lv4 skillchains is (With Guttler I can spam at 1000 with no loss in damage, and keep aftermath up just fine).

We have all the info we need on Tri-Edge. Mistral Axe is Savage Blade -1 and TE has 500 TP bonus.

Done and done.
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [60 days between previous and next post]
 Shiva.Malthar
Offline
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Malthar
Posts: 333
By Shiva.Malthar 2017-04-03 20:24:01  
Yeah, for bst ws TP bonus +500 trumps all. Why won't SE give us a decent tp bonus shield?!
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [128 days between previous and next post]
 Sylph.Darkside
Offline
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Kensai98
Posts: 205
By Sylph.Darkside 2017-08-09 14:20:25  
Has anyone tried AG Guttler with the new Heyoka Gear. That gives great stats to both Master and Pet. Just curious. I get bored running in and out just letting my pet do all the work.
Offline
Posts: 410
By Kodaijin 2017-08-09 14:39:21  
Guttler is a fun toy to play with. The Heyoka gear doesnt look to bad right out of the box either for people starting on bst.

Sadly, Guttler doesnt hold up against Aymur for anything or against tri-edge for melee. I used Guttler for a long time before getting Mythic and since then its been in storage and only makes an appearance as offhand lockstyle. I think i actually said yesterday to a group that I wished I had a reason to AG Guttler, but there isnt. take the gil you would use to AG it and put it towards Aymur. if your serious about BST enough to spend 100m to AG guttler, your serious enough to get Aymur.

The Heyoka gear is outdone by Valorous with decent augs.
 Siren.Attaxia
Offline
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
user: Attaxia
Posts: 97
By Siren.Attaxia 2017-08-09 17:11:50  
If your pet does not have a big natural attack bonus Guttler's aftermath can give an attack boost that surpasses Aymur's, this makes it the best possible choice for physical pet attacks during Unleash providing it is viable use a WS for aftermath up before use (popping a wing in escha zones works well).

Other than that niche use, much to my dismay, it's just for show/glow.
Offline
Posts: 410
By Kodaijin 2017-08-09 17:30:26  
Siren.Attaxia said: »
If your pet does not have a big natural attack bonus Guttler's aftermath can give an attack boost that surpasses Aymur's, this makes it the best possible choice for physical pet attacks during Unleash providing it is viable use a WS for aftermath up before use (popping a wing in escha zones works well).

Other than that niche use, much to my dismay, it's just for show/glow.

Aymur gives +1000 tp bonus to ready moves plus the +80 attack without aftermath. There is no statistical reason to upgrade Guttler to AG if both weapons are an option. There are other reasons to do it, but not where doing damage is concerned.

If youre not going to go for Aymur, then by all means do the AG guttler. :)
 Odin.Drakenv
Offline
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Drakenv
Posts: 3458
By Odin.Drakenv 2017-08-09 17:52:35  
Kodaijin said: »
Siren.Attaxia said: »
If your pet does not have a big natural attack bonus Guttler's aftermath can give an attack boost that surpasses Aymur's, this makes it the best possible choice for physical pet attacks during Unleash providing it is viable use a WS for aftermath up before use (popping a wing in escha zones works well).

Other than that niche use, much to my dismay, it's just for show/glow.

Aymur gives +1000 tp bonus to ready moves plus the +80 attack without aftermath. There is no statistical reason to upgrade Guttler to AG if both weapons are an option. There are other reasons to do it, but not where doing damage is concerned.

If youre not going to go for Aymur, then by all means do the AG guttler. :)
If I only played bst more but it sounds like I need 30 plus gear
 Siren.Attaxia
Offline
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
user: Attaxia
Posts: 97
By Siren.Attaxia 2017-08-09 18:23:47  
Kodaijin said: »
Aymur gives +1000 tp bonus to ready moves plus the +80 attack without aftermath. There is no statistical reason to upgrade Guttler to AG if both weapons are an option. There are other reasons to do it, but not where doing damage is concerned.
While Unleash is active the TP bonus from Aymur is superseded, also, Guttler AM can give over 100 attack to pets (iirc I've squeezed as much as 130ish out of it). It's not always practical to get the AM up before Unleash, but when you can Guttler is the clear winner (in most cases).
Offline
By clearlyamule 2017-08-09 19:00:18  
Kodaijin said: »
Siren.Attaxia said: »
If your pet does not have a big natural attack bonus Guttler's aftermath can give an attack boost that surpasses Aymur's, this makes it the best possible choice for physical pet attacks during Unleash providing it is viable use a WS for aftermath up before use (popping a wing in escha zones works well).

Other than that niche use, much to my dismay, it's just for show/glow.

Aymur gives +1000 tp bonus to ready moves plus the +80 attack without aftermath. There is no statistical reason to upgrade Guttler to AG if both weapons are an option. There are other reasons to do it, but not where doing damage is concerned.

If youre not going to go for Aymur, then by all means do the AG guttler. :)
See but that's not exactly true. Aymur gives 500 tp bonus pre ready move which then if lower than 1k (ready most of the time) it then the game then puts you at 1k and applies the other 500 tp bonus along with gear and fencer. So not even including overcapping it's really adding 500-1k with it usually being more on the lower end

Siren.Attaxia said: »
, Guttler AM can give over 100 attack to pets (iirc I've squeezed as much as 130ish out of it).
Really depends on the mobs base attack before it's innate bonuses and such so will depend on pet I think other buffs alot
 Siren.Attaxia
Offline
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
user: Attaxia
Posts: 97
By Siren.Attaxia 2017-08-09 19:11:51  
Yes, I did mention that. For pets with large innate bonuses like the Tiger, Aymur always pulls ahead.
Offline
Posts: 410
By Kodaijin 2017-08-09 21:01:29  
Just did some testing with Aymur because I wanted to see when the TP bonus kicked in and I found something else I wanted to ask about.

Falkirks testing on BG was done with Aymur 119-1 and showed Attack +80.

I just tested AG Aymur and got the following:
Bouncing Bertha Attack
Equipping 119-1 Guttler: 1174
Equipping other 119 axe with no att bonus: 1174
Equipping Aymur 119AG: 1269
Difference = 95

Black Beard Randy Attack
119 axes with no att bonus: 1564
Aymur AG: 1691
Difference: 127

Warlike Patrick
119 axes: 1269
Aymur AG: 1373
Difference 104

All other gear was idle gear and didnt change.
Was this mentioned anywhere else? Any other AG Aymurs confirm?
Got pics if needed. Did this in Foret de Hennetiel. No buffs.
thanks-
Offline
Posts: 410
By Kodaijin 2017-08-09 21:10:03  
Additional info.
With NO gear on the results are similiar but a higher % increase.
Not a static % ... same as above.
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
Offline
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
user: Xilk
Posts: 617
By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2017-08-09 22:44:17  
Those Values are exactly as expected for Aymur 119-1

Randy has a 60% attack bonus
so if you add 80 attack from Aymur the +60% bonus is 48
80+48 = 128
looks like 1 point shaved off from truncation

Patrick has attack bonus of 30% so 80 +24 = 104

This is exactly what Falkirk's Guide says, and what you see with AG Aymur or non AG Aymur 119.


Bertha at 95 Does not make sense though. should be a 10% attack bonus making it +88 attack. sure you didn't miss a piece of pet attack or STR somewhere?
[+]
First Page 2