Tips For An Aspiring PUP?

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Puppet Master » Tips for an aspiring PUP?
Tips for an aspiring PUP?
 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2016-05-29 20:02:40  
Be nice to know who this other pup that gets to recall their auto while you get to sit back and play with 5 min maneuvers
 Fenrir.Cherrywine
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By Fenrir.Cherrywine 2016-05-29 20:04:56  
Inudesu said: »
Something had to be different. There's no way that 100hp allows ARK that must power. Did you guys have the same gear, and same attachments/maneuvers?

Yep, everything else is the same, including the Shepherd's chain. Only difference is the NQ Rao x4.
 Fenrir.Zirove
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By Fenrir.Zirove 2016-05-29 20:19:54  
Hey, so yeah the other pup is the same but no HQ piece and it was fine as long as VEX was up. I am sure that 2 NQ pups can handle it just fine. The importance of using VE is so the pups voke ASAP once their hate gets reset, so with 2 it never moved. We tried with whm pups but had placement issues and hate issues. With VE is a was breeze tank wise.
 Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia
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By Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia 2016-05-29 20:53:52  
Fenrir.Zirove said: »
Hey, so yeah the other pup is the same but no HQ piece and it was fine as long as VEX was up. I am sure that 2 NQ pups can handle it just fine. The importance of using VE is so the pups voke ASAP once their hate gets reset, so with 2 it never moved. We tried with whm pups but had placement issues and hate issues. With VE is a was breeze tank wise.

VE body, but it serves no purpose other than Invincible for the head slot. WHM head gives you an extra light slot for Optic fiber.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2016-05-29 20:55:41  
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
/shrug It is what it is. It's the additional regen from the ARK, not just the higher HP. We're talking about Puppetmaster here, I don't have any reason to lie.

I'm not saying you're lying that his puppet died and yours didn't, but I still think there's GOTTA be a reason beyond just the +1 gear. Maybe his puppet had hate and got beaten up, maybe he had different attachments/maneuvers up, maybe his puppet had other nasty debuffs on that weren't resisted, etc.

Do you happen to know the amount of regen per tick an extra 100hp in your tanking gear gives (approximate is fine)?

But anyway, after this I'm gonna try to stay away from getting too bogged down in high level tanking talk (there's another thread for that!) If the point here is someone returning to PUP getting into endgame shape, we're really being pretty excessive here by getting into the merits of whether, in our subjective views, HQ abjuration gear is worth the cost :)

Main point here is that an automaton can certainly tank high level content, and having +1 abjuration gear is absolutely not required to do it. If you wanna be totally decked out in best-of-the-best it's something that exists though.
 Asura.Cicion
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By Asura.Cicion 2016-05-29 22:09:12  
Theres a couple things i see that could of happened with the dia aura. One auto was able to get off cure6 mabey the other didnt. One auto had impact debuff on and taking more damage from hits and or tp moves during aura. You also can get 2 temps to restore auto hp in escha that can be used 30+ away. I generally always run in at start of dia aura and pop off repair for the xtra 80tick regen for w/e ticks. I pefer the 4/5 taeon in tanking set for the 80-100 xtra ma eva you can aug it with for pet. Rao +1 is pretty great esp if u like to hybrid it up with your auto on lesser nms but my taeon pieces prol only cost me 35mil to aug with the 4 dt 2-3 regen and 20+ ma eva. Also mabey other guys light maneuver fell off it happens.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-05-30 02:06:57  
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Like I said, Rao+1 is still best. But I guess it's up to whoever is considering it as to whether it's worth the cost!
A couple of HQ Rao pieces aren't THAT expensive. If you're unlucky it could take you more gil in stones to augment Taeon.
For the other pieces you're absolutely right.

Personally I dunno, I have mixed feelings between NQ Rao and Taeon.
Taeon ==> lots of gil, time and stress to get the right augments, but incredible customization and no "negative" stats for master
Rao ==> easy and fast to get, for 1-2 slots you could arguably get HQ too. You get a cool regen for master and nice +HP for Pet, but also no +HP for master and no customization.

For example let's assume a situation with Teles. Taeon augmented with, dunno, Meva or something else could make the difference between surviving or dying, which would be much more likely with Rao, its lack of HP and lack of additional stats from the Snow slot (which you could "waste" for master defensive stats in a tanking-focused set).

I have no Taeon-augmented stuff for my PUP yet, just an NQ Rao body. I'm really torn on what to be aiming for atm, but knowing me and my luck with augments I'll probably end up with 4/5 NQ Rao...
But if I could press a magic button to choose between Rao and Taeon, I'd probably pick the latter.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-05-30 02:08:03  
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Did you guys have the same gear, and same attachments/maneuvers?
Same vorseals too, don't forget about those.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2016-05-30 03:24:49  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Taeon augmented with, dunno, Meva or something else could make the difference between surviving or dying

FWIW, that is what's on my Taeon. All pieces Pet: DT-4%, Regen+3, Meva+22~25.

I think my Meva total (from 4/5 slots + Anwig) is... 92? Something like that. That's roughly the same as Geo-Attune from a skill 900+ Dunna GEO (Meva+95: from Meva+65 base spell/skill + Dunna adds Meva+30). For further context, COR Runeist's Roll on XI gives only Meva+30.

I'm honestly not sure whether I'm not still at floored Meva on anything that matters (and I have no clue whether automaton gets a certain base M.eva from pet level, to correspond roughly to players with 119 gear). Still, it seemed to me to be the best possible choice on my tanking Taeon since I don't give a damn about automaton offense on my tanking set - so it was really between Pet: Def and Meva. At least on some mobs, I assume it probably helps me get some status effect resists I'd otherwise get hit with. And to me, status effects (which are spammed enough that Repair/Maintenance timer can't keep up well) are the real worst threat to an automaton tank.

Of course, I also have a ton of mules that I used login points to get stones (which have become sort of a hassle to sell reliably), so take that for what you will. The Leaf/Dusk augs honestly aren't very hard to get though even with +1 stones, it's the snow ones that are a little annoying. Just recently redid the snow augs actually, I had Acc+22~25 on everything before.

And in any case, I'd recommend any PUP making new decisions right now at least hold off until next week to see what new attachments show up! Might be nothing relevant, but who knows maybe something interesting shows up. For example, a M.Eva attachment using something like a Wind slot (Kinda game changing!), or even just an "automaton won't use WS" attachment.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2016-05-30 03:36:30  
I was talking about Master magic eva, not pet magic eva.
While that's undoubtely useful my point was about getting in range on fight like teles.
Thinkin about such a scenario I was comparing Rao (which has no HP for master, it's basically -HP compared to other ilevel pieces) to Taeon (which has +HP like normal, and you could augment Snow slot with Meva).

But then again I suppose you could have an alternative "master DT" set that you use for the few seconds necessary to get in range, do what you have to do, and then press a button to swap back to your "pet stats" idle set.


Regardless of all these useless blabberings of mine, my point still stands, if I could choose with a magic button I think I'd get 4/5 Taeon or even a combination of Taeon/Rao, over 4/5 Rao.




Concerning Anwig Salade that was discussed a little while ago, I think if you have good augments, Vorseals and using specific Frames, you can probably either drop an Armor Plate 3, or use Rao/Taeon for head as well.
Wonder how would Equalizer play in this scenario, to use in place of Armor Plate?
Back then Armor Plates gave only +def and Equalizer was the only PDT piece. How does it fit now that Armor Plates got changed, I wonder?
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2016-05-30 04:23:11  
Asura.Sechs said: »
I was talking about Master magic eva, not pet magic eva

Interesting thought... though yeah, like you said I'd tend to just use my own master DT set for a quick run in to repair. So to me, maybe only really useful for fights when you're stuck in some huge AoE range for large portions of the fight while your puppet is also tanking. Otherwise, I'd rather have some augment stat that's beneficial to the puppet for the vast majority of the time I'm NOT in range.

Quote:
if I could choose with a magic button I think I'd get 4/5 Taeon or even a combination of Taeon/Rao, over 4/5 Rao.

I do have 4/5 of each and used to use 2 of each, yeah. At first I was 4/5 Taeon, then got into using some Rao, then tried all Rao, now I'm more back toward 4/5 Taeon as my default.

The one time I really do tend to prefer 4/5 Rao is any time I'm doing something where holding hate is particularly difficult (say, with really good melees, since it's generally a breeze to hold off of mages thanks to low enmity MBs). But that's more for the max HP due to its benefit in enmity decay (part of the Cumulative Enmity loss formula) - arguably a fairly minor benefit, but when that's my main concern every bit helps. I'm not really making that choice to go with higher max HP for reasons of survivability + slightly more regen/tick though.
 Fenrir.Jumeya
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By Fenrir.Jumeya 2016-05-30 17:56:13  
Hello, I'm Geomancer and Runefencer in our group for these. We keep PUP out of range, at 30+', on opposite sides so if for some reason one dies going in to heal on the off dia aura > Tp move, the other is there and holds it fine for redeploy

On geo, I just stand there with vex and stoneskin and Call doesn't kill you, sure it could I guess if unresisted. For the sake of sure thing vs relying on resists, just used vex + indi fade.

It was pretty lack luster tbh once it's positioned and buffs up. The only danger was mute aura during which vex could drop. To fix, I just had someone out of range silena me while I spammed to get luopan back, it goes off between mute ticks, and it's fine.

As for the Automatons, vex is enough to make their regen overtake her damage, except on dia aura since it tends to pop bubbles, there's a lapse period that oil was occasionally needed, in a rotation to ensure at least 1 remains up at all times.
 Fenrir.Jumeya
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By Fenrir.Jumeya 2016-05-30 18:03:28  
Oh and for the record, we used 3 GEO, none of which have idris for this. Vex/fade for tank, Haste/languour, Focus/Malaise