Dojikiri Yasutsuna VS. Koga

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Samurai » Dojikiri Yasutsuna VS. Koga
Dojikiri Yasutsuna VS. Koga
 Asura.Xenomorph
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By Asura.Xenomorph 2016-06-18 05:05:24  
I haven't heard too much about Aeonic GK and I can't find information about how they parse with Koga. Which of the two does more dps right now? If someone that has both or knows someone that has both replies that would be a bonus :)
 Fenrir.Kut
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By Fenrir.Kut 2016-06-18 05:46:25  
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/41903/bushido-the-way-of-the-samurai-a-guide-v-20/55/#3111081
 Asura.Xenomorph
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By Asura.Xenomorph 2016-06-18 12:51:16  
Thanks for the link. Crazy! I'd love to see it out parse Koga AMIII
 Asura.Syto
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By Asura.Syto 2016-06-18 13:34:27  
You would have to make sure your accuracy is solid. Even for WS. I think the Koga-III AM3 damage bonus is potentially greater for WS and would push ahead in DPS if proc'd steadily. I don't think Doji would out perform every single time. Maybe at the times when AM3 doesn't put out as many spikes. This is just a thought.

It would require direct parse with someone who owns it with optimal gear sets. Of course with both Koga and Doji. It would be a fierce competition. I think Doji is a solid contender though.

Both blades are still very depressed until 2H Accuracy issues are resolved or "balanced" in SE Terms.. That's next year when everyone has already quit FFXI...
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 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2016-06-18 14:06:41  
From what ive seen, its just another 3hit build spam-wagon
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2016-06-18 14:21:35  
Koga will do more damage when using Rana (duh) and Ageha (did they ever fix the def down effect?), but Dojikiri wins out on Fudo, YGK, and probably Shoha too.

I'm inclined to agree with Llewelyn's assessment. Dojikiri can pump out five step radiance skillchains like nobody's business, and every WS in that sequence (Shoha->Fudo/Gekko->Kasha->Shoha->Fudo/Shoha) benefits from Dojikiri's high base damage and TP Bonus +500. Can obviously add Rana to start if you want a six step instead. Koga can follow that same SC path and should do so slightly faster, but each WS and resulting SC is weaker and the closing skillchain is only a double light.
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By Rife 2016-06-18 14:27:30  
Not sure where the 5 step thing is coming in.

F > K > S > F is Light > Radiance
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2016-06-18 14:31:08  
Anything from four to six steps obviously works for AM1, though how many steps is optimal I can't say and it may vary by situation anyway.
 Asura.Xenomorph
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By Asura.Xenomorph 2016-06-18 14:37:56  
Yea the base damage, radiance sc, and tp bonus is huuuuge. It just seems like AMIII proccing on WS + faster WS rate could keep Koga on par with it.
 Odin.Llewelyn
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2016-06-18 15:51:38  
A Shoha to start with is beneficial since you gain 3-10% SC damage on the Distortion, Fusion and Light. I believe a 5-step leading with Shoha is ideal when using Dojikiri.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2016-06-18 15:58:09  
Yeah, aftermath + innate bonuus per step adds up. Basically a question of whether you should gun for the radiance closer asap or build up to it for more damage per step with a bigger finish.
 Leviathan.Nitenichi
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By Leviathan.Nitenichi 2016-06-18 18:21:30  


Definitely a fan of the latter
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 Asura.Syto
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By Asura.Syto 2016-06-19 04:40:37  
Great SC Damage Nite. Good to see ya man and congrats on the Doji. :D

I have done that kind of WS Damage with Koga on that NM before, but of course your SC dmg was much better on Doji.

You know. When you bring this into reality. I always wanted to analyze and witness how Doji would perform in a very practical and common scenario without Ultimate Skillchain.

Keep in mind, I completely acknowledge and agree that in an isolated "straight-line" sample scenario, the DPS upon reaching Ultimate Skillchain will outperform damage vs Koga in that same "straight line" scenario.

By "straight-line" I mean: Doji on one NM without any other DD or WS, interrupting your SC. This means you are the sole creator/master of the skillchains. The bonus for Ultimate Skillchain will shine through of course for the Doji and Koga will not do as well and fall below.

However, when you bring this into that common/practical scenario. Which is when you are in a battle against another DD on the same NM. Which can be either against several others or even just one other SAM that is spamming Fudo. The game changes completely.

You now no longer have no access to Ultimate Skillchain (Unless you literally command/control the WS's and DD to follow your command). Without this, you now have lost a critical attribute of the blade's DPS advantage. You are then left with just these practical highlighted offensive attributes head-to-head and isolated as:


Doji's:
+500 STP Bonus (Static)
+34 Base Damage (Static)
Slight SC Damage Boost (Static)

vs

Koga's:
*AM3 WS Damage Transfer Twice/Thrice boost (Dynamic Variable)
*Occasionally attacks Twice/Thrice TP speed. (Dynamic Variable)
*Occasionally attacks Twice/Thrice WS speed. (Dynamic Variable)

*I definitely believe Koga can push further since the Dynamic range is very potent on both WS and proc rates are very high as long as AM3 is constantly up.

My Ultimate Question:

Will Doji's Static Base always beat Koga's WS AM3 Procs every time?

*All of this is of course considering both TP/WS gearsets are similar or equal and perfectly optimal in accuracy for the same NM.

Doji's static rates are just static. Only way you can push these further is by stacking lots of additional DA/TA/QA, WS Bonus, etc on WS gear of course. In this experimental DPS scenario, both WS gear-sets should be at maximum potential, so obviously best possible WS gear-set for both blades.

How would you think Koga would do against Doji with above scenario?

My point is that in a practical zerg type situation which is very common in today's scenarios against several NMs. You are mostly up against another BLU or another THF or another SAM. You won't have much control unless you request it. In this experimental situation I want to just highlight Koga's element of speed and Dynamic damage boost over Doji, so: I would set up 1 SAM (Doji) vs another SAM (Koga) spamming only Fudo. Or one SAM spamming only Fudo on NM then switching to Koga and spamming Fudo again then comparing DPS results.

I love Doji, it's a great blade. I don't have one yet but I have seen it in action and have a lot of respect for it's presence.

I just want to stay skeptical and not completely market it as the most amazing and ultimate all-scenario blade just yet.

I hope to bring others in this analysis to see if it really does completely crush Fudo as Nightfyre, Llewelyn might be leaning towards in their analysis. If anyone with the right data can post results it would be awesome to see some different samples.

I will definitely try and experiment when I get my Doji someday before the servers shut down.

What are your thoughts guys? I may be completely off in my thoughts.

Also, I am in no way the best SAM, I just aspire to be one as great as Eijinn, Nightfyre and Llewelyn are someday.
 Lakshmi.Konvict
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By Lakshmi.Konvict 2016-06-19 06:45:10  
Plz no don't start this crap. Mythic will always win.
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 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2016-06-19 08:46:25  
Ty for adding nothing to the conversation.

That's blatantly not even true though. It might be more likely for SAM since AM3 is really easy to maintain for them, but the SC dmg and tp bonus are no joke.
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 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
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By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2016-06-19 08:56:01  
But my millions man, come on, I didn't spend them for nothing/just a situational weapon. Say it ain't so!
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By Blazed1979 2016-06-19 09:53:32  
Amano and Masumane > Koga > Doji
 Asura.Syto
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By Asura.Syto 2016-06-19 11:08:05  
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
That's blatantly not even true though. It might be more likely for SAM since AM3 is really easy to maintain for them, but the SC dmg and tp bonus are no joke.

I totally agree with you, but what happens to Doji vs Koga when you no longer have the Ultimate Skillchain anymore like in the common scenarios? Will it still win in your mind with just the slight SC dmg and TP Bonus 500?
 Leviathan.Stamos
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By Leviathan.Stamos 2016-06-19 11:44:56  
With how fast Sam gets tp, I do not really see any scenario where the ultimate skillchain would not be available. Minus, doing jinpu for vagary?
 Asura.Syto
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By Asura.Syto 2016-06-19 11:53:11  
Leviathan.Stamos said: »
With how fast Sam gets tp, I do not really see any scenario where the ultimate skillchain would not be available. Minus, doing jinpu for vagary?

Hey Stam ^^/

Yeah I know they can keep Aeonic AM1/2/3 up all the time if they were alone, but is that practical in zerg situation with another SAM spamming Fudo and stopping you from doing it? You can't make radiance as often or at all in this scenario. The difficulty then becomes Doji Fudo vs Koga Fudo, or whatever WS you choose to compare between the blades.
 Leviathan.Stamos
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By Leviathan.Stamos 2016-06-19 11:56:58  
Yo.


Meh what is really zerg'd melee nowadays? Generally you will want to coordinate with any other DD anyway. Like, Nite and I are in the same linkshell. We were doing Shoha > Expiacion > Kasha > Savage > Shoha or Fudo
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 Leviathan.Brotherhood
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By Leviathan.Brotherhood 2016-06-19 13:22:55  
Get one and find out or else take their word for it.
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 Asura.Syto
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By Asura.Syto 2016-06-19 15:30:04  
Leviathan.Brotherhood said: »
Get one and find out or else take their word for it.

Yup, you are right bro. I am gonna have to pull my sleeves up and finally get to it.
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 Asura.Xenomorph
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By Asura.Xenomorph 2017-01-07 01:05:30  
So now that you have AG EMA Syto, which GK is the strongest for you? Funny that I made this thread for koga vs doji but I hear that masa is just amazing right now. Will have a masa very soon and not too far off from doji. I really hope my hard work is gonna be worth it!
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2017-01-07 01:52:44  
from what many of sams have told me masa>aeonic>kog>relic(higher if acc needed)>rest
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By Asura.Nightmarelord 2017-01-07 02:20:39  
Koga / masa > amano / aeonic > rest

The real question is does aeonic aftermath make yoichi better? I assume yes from bare understanding of this thread.
 Asura.Syto
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By Asura.Syto 2017-01-07 03:44:37  
Asura.Xenomorph said: »
So now that you have AG EMA Syto, which GK is the strongest for you? Funny that I made this thread for koga vs doji but I hear that masa is just amazing right now. Will have a masa very soon and not too far off from doji. I really hope my hard work is gonna be worth it!

Currently at maximal utilization of QA/TA/DA gear, AG-Masamune obliterates every single blade in this game..

Here it from the man himself..

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/41903/bushido-the-way-of-the-samurai-a-guide-v-20/60/#3207002

I'm sorry but when Ejinn/Llewellyn speak.. They speak loud and clear..

I'm raving about the weapon because of my own experiences so far. Keep in mind I'm no where near as optimally equipped as well as I would like to be, and I already feel the power they are refer to at my gimpy state..

Koga is unfortunately put to the side unless you want a quick and easy Six Step for any reason. However, currently Masa is in a dimension of its own above it all.

My current GKT DPS Tier Conclusions:

Masamune >>>>>>>> Doji (Static WS) <> Koga (Depending on AM3 WS Spike Spread Quality in duration of fight/zerg) >> Amano (If you need to secure extra Acc for any unique situation)

Enjoy the job as it shines again with leaders like Ejinn and Llewellyn constantly displaying it's great potential..

Thanks for being loyal to the job Xeno brother.

The blue blade that's constantly thirsty for blood, won't disappoint.. ^_*)y
 Asura.Xenomorph
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By Asura.Xenomorph 2017-01-07 22:36:34  
I am glad to read what you had to say Syto! Thank you for taking the time to give me that information and personal notes.

Best wishes and happy 5-stepping!
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