Kannagi

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Ninja » Kannagi
Kannagi
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 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-02-02 11:13:24  
So I have relic and when I start aeonic katana will be my first. Kannagi I hear a lot of good things but I Dano. Have enough for another emp weapon but I hate seeing my 90 kannagi I think it’s a completion issue. Thoughts suggestions or trolls commence!
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-02-02 12:15:45  
Kannagi (85) for life.
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By Elazar1 2018-02-02 13:37:52  
Will be nothing more than an off hand weapon,I main aeonic and off hand kannagi, used to rock but not anymore. Sad face...
 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-02-02 13:43:41  
Elazar1 said: »
Will be nothing more than an off hand weapon,I main aeonic and off hand kannagi, used to rock but not anymore. Sad face...
119 AG kannagi?
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By Elazar1 2018-02-02 13:51:40  
Yup
 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-02-02 13:53:44  
Elazar1 said: »
Yup
So there’s a reason lol thanks
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By Elazar1 2018-02-02 13:56:36  
Trust me breaks my heart really does. Out of the 3 it’s the weakest, I don’t count mythic in the 4 as that’s just toilet paper. So if it’s for completion go for it, if not I wouldn’t waste the money but that’s just me, and with SE you never know when something will change
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By Boshi 2018-02-02 14:05:15  
Any possible situation you could want to offhand Kannagi you’d be better of mainhanding it.
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 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-02-02 14:16:25  
Boshi said: »
Any possible situation you could want to offhand Kannagi you’d be better of mainhanding it.
I’m torn ugh
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-02-02 15:49:22  
Elazar1 said: »
Will be nothing more than an off hand weapon,I main aeonic and off hand kannagi, used to rock but not anymore. Sad face...
For which reason exactely do you offhand?
Last I checked it sucks.

Offhanding Twahstar is a different story. All that dex contributes to accuracy in both hands and contributes to the damage of your best WS, which is quite an awesome WS (Rudra's Storm).

For NIN AGI offhand does nothing but give you Evasion, and Blade: Hi is ***.

Kannagi mainhand has a purpose in some circumstances, where the AM from your white damage attack rounds matters (there was an ambuscade fight a few months ago where Kannagi MH was quite awesome) but other than that Kannagi falls behind Kikoku and Aeonic.
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 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-02-02 15:50:17  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Elazar1 said: »
Will be nothing more than an off hand weapon,I main aeonic and off hand kannagi, used to rock but not anymore. Sad face...
For which reason exactely do you offhand?
Last I checked it sucks.

Offhanding Twahstar is a different story. All that dex contributes to accuracy in both hands and contributes to the damage of your best WS, which is quite an awesome WS (Rudra's Storm).

For NIN AGI offhand does nothing but give you Evasion, and Blade: Hi is ***.

Kannagi mainhand has a purpose in some circumstances, where the AM from your white damage attack rounds matters (there was an ambuscade fight a few months ago where Kannagi MH was quite awesome) but other than that Kannagi falls behind Kikoku and Aeonic.
Hmm fine!!!!!!!!! Ukon :0 rawr
 Bismarck.Lilmartio
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By Bismarck.Lilmartio 2018-02-02 15:54:08  
Offhanding a Kannagi is literally the worst thing you can do. You don't gain anything from offhanding, I mean sure you do get some racc but that isn't enough to boost your damage. This isn't an Almace or a Twashtar. If SE decides to swap Gandiva's and Kannagi's stats then, in that case, Kannagi would be a consideration. Just like every job and their weapons, Kannagi is a very situational weapon. Personally, I use my Kannagi in solo stuff or fights where there's a gimmick. Kannagi also requires a different gearset compared with Kiko and Heishi. The white damage is very nice, really the only issue with Kannagi is Blade: Hi.

I would give the weapon an 8/10 rating. If I was you, I would wait until Heishi is complete. Heishi is literally the best weapon for ninja. Maybe when you find more gil laying around could give Kannagi a shot, if you're not a fan, could always just go back to Heishi.
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-02-05 13:49:11  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Elazar1 said: »
Will be nothing more than an off hand weapon,I main aeonic and off hand kannagi, used to rock but not anymore. Sad face...
For which reason exactely do you offhand?
Last I checked it sucks.

Yeah, offhand Kannagi isn't a good idea. Ochu or Kanaria with good augs, Taka, or even Achiuchikapu will be better. Now, if for some reason it was switched to be DEX+50 instead of AGI+50... Kannagi offhand would generally be BiS (see also: Almace, Twashtar). But that's fantasy, sadly.

Also, supposing you were using only Blade: Hi, offhand Kannagi with a good WS set could indeed be at/near the top offhand. But, you wouldn't really want to do that - using a different WS (and different offhand, since Kannagi won't be much help to Shun/Ten/Metsu) will be significantly better. Mainhand Kannagi and Hi is more viable due to the Mythic weapon boost to associated WS. (EDIT: thank you Oronyx for calling out my mistake - doesn't change my overall point that Hi is better now than it was though, see #1 below)

That being said, I'm working on AG Kannagi right now and I think there are a few relatively recent factors that make it more worthwhile than it has been:

1) WS gear: some of the newer gear helps make Blade: Hi more competitive (with Kannagi mainhand's 30% bonus). AF+3 head and 4/5 Mummu+2 plus Mummu Ring is really hard to beat as a general set, and is pretty easy to obtain. That makes a huge difference over having to hope for excellent AGI/WSD Herculean augments that still fall behind Mummu gear. Hi is still no Shun/Ten/Metsu, but it's not as big of a liability now as it has been over the past few years.

2) TP gear: Kendatsuba/+1 is pretty much tailor made for Empy ODT aftermath, with high multiattack and crit rate. Adhemar +1 is also a lot cheaper and more available now with crafting shields, and the set bonus crit rate (and head crit damage+) are similarly nice for Kannagi and a more crit-focused build.

3) Kannagi is a beast for white damage with Empy AM up. We're actually seeing more realistic situations where you might not want to spam WS indiscriminately as soon as you hit 1000tp. The game in general has more SC coordination, many NMs have mechanics favoring good timing of WS as opposed to all out spam (think Kin or Glassy Thinker from Omen, frequent Ambuscade NM gimmicks).

4) Also, don't completely ignore AGI+50 for Daken Racc purposes. 54% proc rate with full gifts, and since most of our good TP gear also has enough Racc to give decent hit rate (but probably not capped on a lot of content), the extra ~37.5 Racc isn't an absolute nothing in terms of TP generation. Though, yeah, I'd definitely trade it for DEX+50 any day of the week.


I think there's a legitimate place for all three of Heishi, Kikoku, and Kannagi:

Heishi Shorinken
Pros
- Strong DMG and TP Bonus is a significant WS boost: really helps Ten shine, and Shun gets Radiance.
- Fairly easy to use, as long as you're on top of WSing at good times. To some extent, a little TP overflow is fine too since Ten scales well and a 1250tp WS (effectively 2000 with Heishi+Moonshade) is fantastic - but beyond that, TP overflow has somewhat diminishing returns.

Cons
- NIN is still a job that is more skewed toward TP phase/"white damage" than most, so doesn't necessarily take as much advantage of Aeonic's boost to WS power as some other jobs.
- In order to realize the full "spreadsheet numbers", you really have to be on top of WSing right away, or else some of that theoretical advantage bleeds away.
- Requires ability to obtain Aeonic weapon; might be more difficult for those without a strong enough group (or desire/availability of using merc services - which aren't nearly as prevalent on servers besides Asura)

Kikoku
Pros
- When not attack capped, the massive Atk from weapon Atk+60 and AM Atk+10% (about Atk+115~120 in my normal TP sets) is really potent and can cause Kikoku to be BiS mainhand. Not being Atk capped on NIN really isn't that rare of a circumstance these days on difficult content, especially in the lower-man scenarios where NIN sometimes thrives.
- Blade: Metsu is a very useful WS. Not necessarily just for damage (which it's no slouch for), but also for excellent SC flexibility for both Light and Darkness SCs.
- If you aren't in a position to get Aeonics completed (or have other Aeonics as a higher personal priority), Kikoku is the easiest/cheapest RME weapon to obtain.

Cons
- If you're fully buffed, it can fall behind Aeonic and Empy a bit since you aren't benefiting from all of that Atk.

Kannagi
Pros
- With Empy AM up, it's the best white damage weapon by far. If you're in a situation where you're holding TP on a regular basis (or even if you aren't being as diligent about WSing immediately), that can swing things in favor of Kannagi. This aspect is NOT necessarily reflected on spreadsheets that assume near instantaneous WS usage as a default, and don't always accurately model realistic situations. (do you ever end up with well over 1000tp without consciously focusing on it? I know I do.)

Cons
- Weak SC flexibility. Blade: Hi is kind of a one-trick Darkness pony. While Kannagi is still OK for Shun, it is inferior to Heishi's TP Bonus and Kikoku's atk (when uncapped, significant on a highly atk oriented WS).
- If purely spamming WS at 1000~1250 tp, will start to fall behind Heishi/Kikoku due to weaker Shun/Ten and Hi inherently not being as strong of an option.
- That AGI is annoying. Man, if only this (and Hi's related WS mod) was DEX, things would be so much different.

What about Nagi?
LOL nope.
 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2018-02-05 13:53:43  
Capuchin is famous over on the RNG forums for pointing out that SE really screwed the pooch, putting +50DEX on the Gandiva and +50AGI on the Kannagi...oh how all of our lives would have been simpler if the stat boost and the modifier for the related WS (Jishnu's and Blade:Hi, respectively) were more traditionally oriented.

;)
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-02-05 13:56:26  
Leviathan.Celebrindal said: »
Capuchin is famous over on the RNG forums for pointing out that SE really screwed the pooch, putting +50DEX on the Gandiva and +50AGI on the Kannagi...oh how all of our lives would have been simpler if the stat boost and the modifier for the related WS (Jishnu's and Blade:Hi, respectively) were more traditionally oriented.

;)

Preach it, my man! ;)
 Asura.Oronyx
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By Asura.Oronyx 2018-02-05 14:17:18  
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
make Blade: Hi very competitive (with Kannagi mainhand's 30% bonus)

AFAIK, empys don't get a ws boost, unless you mean the 50 agility pertaining to this?
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-02-05 14:19:09  
Asura.Oronyx said: »
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
make Blade: Hi very competitive (with Kannagi mainhand's 30% bonus)

AFAIK, empys don't get a ws boost, unless you mean the 50 agility pertaining to this?

Yeah I was spacing there - sorry, that's Mythic. AGI+50 and the more recent Hi-friendly WS gear (Mummu stuff in particular) is what makes Kannagi/Hi a little more viable these days for WS damage. Thanks for the correction!
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By mhomho 2018-02-05 16:24:28  
Are you normally able to make Umbra with Heishi?

I was chaining Blade: Hi for Umbra skill chain with Kannagi offhand :x

Does no one use Sange? AGI for shuriken tosses. I don't know...
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-02-05 17:06:54  
If you're talking offhand, Kannagi isn't really even that great for AGI/Racc purposes since most other main alternatives have decent Racc/AGI too.

* Taka has significantly more Racc for Daken. Racc+50/AGI+20
* Shigi (still useful whenever you might want mega-acc) has Racc+50, more than Kannagi
* Ochu: Racc+20/AGI+12 for a total of Racc+29 - same ballpark as Kannagi's Racc+37~38.
* Kanaria: Racc+15 base stats and whatever Racc/AGI you might get on an augment (I actually have a pretty good Kanaria with WSD+7% that has Racc+22, for a total of Racc+37)

I mean, like I said above, if you're using Kannagi as a mainhand the AGI for Daken is something that's a welcome addition. Not really a game changer but it has some significance. But it's no reason to offhand a Kannagi.
 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-02-05 17:10:10  
Thanks for the info guys/gals
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By Bahadir 2018-02-06 01:59:51  
Unfortunately, I could never test it myself cause I quit the game before I could finish the afterglow on my Kannagi but my plan for it was a single wield crit rate/dmg+ build and Id still love to try it as I think there is some hidden potential here.

With buffs like Ramuhs Favor or Rogues Roll its not really hard to get to 100% crit rate. A decent amount of crit dmg+ paired with ODT really adds up, or multiplies for that matter :p only on the paper so far I have to admit but still curious.

Single wield, throw in Mikage and watch the real white dmg. At least that was the plan.... Prob still better to dual wield when Mikage is down but not sure.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-07 00:34:11  
mhomho said: »
Are you normally able to make Umbra with Heishi?

I was chaining Blade: Hi for Umbra skill chain with Kannagi offhand :x

Does no one use Sange? AGI for shuriken tosses. I don't know...

I don't think anyone wants to risk tossing their Happo +1 for Sange. Cool 1min ability to get quick tp, but as fast as ninja gets it, not needed.
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-02-07 01:50:14  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I don't think anyone wants to risk tossing their Happo +1 for Sange. Cool 1min ability to get quick tp, but as fast as ninja gets it, not needed.

Yeah I used my one-time item restore on my Happo+1 and promptly took all my Sange merits away :P

I realize I could use it in some sort of zerg-y situations, but screw the inevitable accidents that come along with it. At least when I shoot my Animikii Bullet it's not that hard to get another one. Toss my Happo+1 (well, and my one spare)? I may not be able to get a new one unless I transfer to Asura - only one has sold on AH on my server since June 2016...
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-02-07 02:42:49  
I accidentally tossed my Happo+1 as well because of a small error in my Lua.
Oherwise I have a lot of defensive mechanisms I've setup in my lua to prevent tossing +1 during Sange.
But then again what do you know... a lost packet at the wrong moment and ***could hit the fan.

I never bought another Happo+1 anyway :'(
I just use Happo NQ from the NPC (now that you can buy them from NPC!) and have a trigger to swap from Happo to Seki or Togakushi.
During Sange I use exclusively Happo instead.
NQ Happo is a good yet easily disposable shuriken.


Gotta say my bad experience with Happo+1 kinda traumatized me. I'm still kinda reluctant to press that Sange JA on cooldown even now that I no longer have an HQ Happo.
 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2018-02-07 05:41:18  
Sange is fun. I'd totally buy like 16,000 nq shurikens and throw them intentionally instead of 1 HQ and throw it accidentally.
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By mhomho 2018-02-07 06:07:32  
I use Sange [https://www.ffxiah.com/item/6447/sasu-sh-pouch], regularly. Is it a dps loss to use it or is it just no one wants to spend money on shurikens? I just always thought it was neat to go as far as to beg smithers to craft me shurikens from materials. I like Sasuke Shurikens for cost purposes...

Is there a reason not to use Sange?

Am I the only Kannagi 119 -III in the thread?
 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2018-02-07 06:18:15  
Tend to just use NQ Happo shurikens because the curio moogle sells them.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-07 08:18:46  
Up until today I used sange very regularly. Helped me 4 step without any delay. Sadly the duration is too short to the point where the additional 2-3 weaponskills may or may not be a big difference. Great ability, I personally think the risk of tossing my HQ is far more important than the ability. Now if you're very careful that's one thing, but I'm not about to blow 3mil a replacement.

To each his own
 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-02-07 08:36:22  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Up until today I used sange very regularly. Helped me 4 step without any delay. Sadly the duration is too short to the point where the additional 2-3 weaponskills may or may not be a big difference. Great ability, I personally think the risk of tossing my HQ is far more important than the ability. Now if you're very careful that's one thing, but I'm not about to blow 3mil a replacement.

To each his own
That white box tho hehe I have 20+1s just in case
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-02-07 09:30:07  
Send me some.....I have a feeling mine will be gone when I least expect it
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