Argosy NQ Vs HQ.

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Warrior » Argosy NQ vs HQ.
Argosy NQ vs HQ.
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 Lakshmi.Elidyr
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By Lakshmi.Elidyr 2018-05-07 10:37:23  
Before anyone just jumps to conclusions, I know HQ would be better. I am just curious about the gap between HQ and NQ for resolution. I have not seen an HQ up for I don't know how long, and while I can jump servers for it, I am just debating the cost/gains in doing so.

Thanks guys.
 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-05-07 10:45:49  
Lakshmi.Elidyr said: »
Before anyone just jumps to conclusions, I know HQ would be better. I am just curious about the gap between HQ and NQ for resolution. I have not seen an HQ up for I don't know how long, and while I can jump servers for it, I am just debating the cost/gains in doing so.

Thanks guys.
I got 3 HQ sets for 3 of my alts. The double attack and attack with acc I love for it. 1 war with ukon, war with bravura, drk with apoc redemption Cala rag and bravura war. Plus the whole set is cheap
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By emerle 2018-05-07 10:47:01  
The difference is going to be marginal. But that is what this game is about. You are getting a few points extra of str/dex/acc/attk/stp/da per slot.

If you are keen to pimp out the job, it’s almost a must, especially because of the relatively low Gil cost now.
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 Lakshmi.Elidyr
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By Lakshmi.Elidyr 2018-05-07 10:47:12  
Is it worth me wasting a month of not playing, and jumping and the 40 bucks? (18 with campaign this month.)
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By emerle 2018-05-07 10:49:04  
Send a mule over.

You don’t have to send all your characters.

If you are short on Gil, you also can skip buying the hat. Flamma+2 is generally better. But legs hands and body are very usable.
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2018-05-07 10:50:22  
Lakshmi.Elidyr said: »
Is it worth me wasting a month of not playing, and jumping and the 40 bucks? (18 with campaign this month.)


how in the world can someone else make a judgment of how worth it is to YOU?

Value is entirely personal and subjective.

so I would say absolutely its worth it, because you are paying for it and NOT me! I don't feel the cost, so go for it!
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-05-07 10:54:50  
Don't totally understand the question. The gap is the difference of (base) 10 acc, 15 att, 1DA, 1STP, 2STR (assuming path D). Path A you trade 2 more dex for 1 stp. The difference is not enormous, but you can just compare the numbers on both of them and see the difference right there? Gap would be whatever the above stats provide for you.

If they don't make or break you that much, honestly it's not that much of a big deal. I use lolNQargosy for my war + drk and still pump out great numbers. You're probably fine with nq, but by all means don't settle if you want to improve in every bit. Might not be worth the cash if you don't care that much though.
 Fenrir.Aladeus
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By Fenrir.Aladeus 2018-05-07 10:55:49  
Depends what you consider cheap drak. Last sales here for pants is 20m and feet for 9m. I only know cuz I have had one of each for sale for quite some time..

Other than that, ya. A few stat points for more gil, but if you're pimping or just have gil to shower us poor people with, then do It!
 Lakshmi.Elidyr
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By Lakshmi.Elidyr 2018-05-07 10:56:02  
Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
Lakshmi.Elidyr said: »
Is it worth me wasting a month of not playing, and jumping and the 40 bucks? (18 with campaign this month.)


how in the world can someone else make a judgment of how worth it is to YOU?

Value is entirely personal and subjective.

so I would say absolutely its worth it, because you are paying for it and NOT me! I don't feel the cost, so go for it!

Easy, I'm not looking at this to change any of my feelings. I'm purely looking at numbers. It not a big deal to me, but if it's a pretty significant gain I wanna do it. If it's a very marginal gain I won't waste my time. I really don't play WAR much so it doesn't effect me any in major way.

emerle said: »
Send a mule over.
You don’t have to send all your characters.

If you are short on Gil, you also can skip buying the hat. Flamma+2 is generally better. But legs hands and body are very usable.

I play all my mules and use them for events, I dont have any that I dont use for events.
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By emerle 2018-05-07 10:57:01  
Make a lvl 1 mule on one of your content IDs. Just send that single character over.

You don’t have to send the entire content ID when you are server transferring.
 Lakshmi.Elidyr
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By Lakshmi.Elidyr 2018-05-07 10:57:48  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Don't totally understand the question. The gap is the difference of (base) 10 acc, 15 att, 1DA, 1STP, 2STR (assuming path D). Path A you trade 2 more dex for 1 stp. The difference is not enormous, but you can just compare the numbers on both of them and see the difference right there? Gap would be whatever the above stats provide for you.

If they don't make or break you that much, honestly it's not that much of a big deal. I use lolNQargosy for my war + drk and still pump out great numbers. You're probably fine with nq, but by all means don't settle if you want to improve in every bit. Might not be worth the cash if you don't care that much though.

That's all I was looking for really. I don't play WAR so I don't know the difference in the stats for Reso (or any other WS that may use the set). With out being able to compare the two I really have no clue, and I don't care enough to find out.

My silly RUN doesn't use the same gear either. :(
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-05-07 10:57:59  
Honestly, not many of the HQ abjurations are huge jumps from the NQ. But they are normally BIS improvements, so they should be judged based off of that, not whether or not "it provides only a small increase or a significant increase". An increase is an increase, can't go broke taking a profit.

edit:

Quote:
With out being able to compare the two I really have no clue

Just compare the NQ to the HQ via bg wiki? The difference took 2 minutes to eyeball. That's not too hard to notice.

FWIW, Resolution is definitely an amazing WS, so you should always look to get as much acc in there as you can, since it's multi-hit. Don't be fooled into the "i don't care about it because its not that much of an increase. 40acc is better than 30 acc. its that simple.
 Lakshmi.Elidyr
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By Lakshmi.Elidyr 2018-05-07 11:00:48  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Honestly, not many of the HQ abjurations are huge jumps from the NQ. But they are normally BIS improvements, so they should be judged based off of that, not whether or not "it provides only a small increase or a significant increase". An increase is an increase, can't go broke taking a profit.

Well on some of the sets the bonuses alone change a bunch of things. Especially on higher content I would think, not to mention the ACC/ATT jumps. If I can still pull decent numbers then it doesn't seem worth it for me atm to deal with it.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-05-07 11:02:48  
If you're factoring in the set bonus, your talking 3% more DA. On a job that has a bunch of DA, its not huge improvement, but it is there. So 10% set bonus from full hq set is pretty cool.
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By emerle 2018-05-07 11:06:01  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Honestly, not many of the HQ abjurations are huge jumps from the NQ. But they are normally BIS improvements, so they should be judged based off of that, not whether or not "it provides only a small increase or a significant increase". An increase is an increase, can't go broke taking a profit.

edit:

Quote:
With out being able to compare the two I really have no clue

Just compare the NQ to the HQ via bg wiki? The difference took 2 minutes to eyeball. That's not too hard to notice.

FWIW, Resolution is definitely an amazing WS, so you should always look to get as much acc in there as you can, since it's multi-hit. Don't be fooled into the "i don't care about it because its not that much of an increase. 40acc is better than 30 acc. its that simple.

The gear progression in this game has always been marginal. Whether your talking about Dusk Gloves compared to Dusk Gloves +1 or Haubergeon to its +1 counterpart or in this specific example.
 Lakshmi.Elidyr
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By Lakshmi.Elidyr 2018-05-07 11:06:06  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
If you're factoring in the set bonus, your talking 3% more DA. On a job that has a bunch of DA, its not huge improvement, but it is there. So 10% set bonus from full hq set is pretty cool.

Yeah good point, for whatever reason I thought it was DA Damage. Thanks.
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By Afania 2018-05-07 11:07:32  
Lakshmi.Elidyr said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
Lakshmi.Elidyr said: »
Is it worth me wasting a month of not playing, and jumping and the 40 bucks? (18 with campaign this month.)


how in the world can someone else make a judgment of how worth it is to YOU?

Value is entirely personal and subjective.

so I would say absolutely its worth it, because you are paying for it and NOT me! I don't feel the cost, so go for it!

Easy, I'm not looking at this to change any of my feelings. I'm purely looking at numbers. It not a big deal to me, but if it's a pretty significant gain I wanna do it. If it's a very marginal gain I won't waste my time. I really don't play WAR much so it doesn't effect me any in major way.

emerle said: »
Send a mule over.
You don’t have to send all your characters.

If you are short on Gil, you also can skip buying the hat. Flamma+2 is generally better. But legs hands and body are very usable.

I play all my mules and use them for events, I dont have any that I dont use for events.

Quickly plug in spreadsheet numbers using default accessories (so no Omen accessories), at capped acc and attack:

NQ 5/5: 25731
HQ 5/5 with same accessories and buffs: 26409

So roughly 2.5% increase from using 5 pieces of hq. Individual pieces would be less than 1% increase.

But keep in mind if attack and acc uncapped, hq will make bigger difference, especially if acc isn't capped.

The value of many melee hq is mostly acc swaps. If you always roll with rema brd then hq makes smaller difference, and vice versa.
 Lakshmi.Elidyr
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By Lakshmi.Elidyr 2018-05-07 11:10:00  
Afania said: »
Lakshmi.Elidyr said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
Lakshmi.Elidyr said: »
Is it worth me wasting a month of not playing, and jumping and the 40 bucks? (18 with campaign this month.)


how in the world can someone else make a judgment of how worth it is to YOU?

Value is entirely personal and subjective.

so I would say absolutely its worth it, because you are paying for it and NOT me! I don't feel the cost, so go for it!

Easy, I'm not looking at this to change any of my feelings. I'm purely looking at numbers. It not a big deal to me, but if it's a pretty significant gain I wanna do it. If it's a very marginal gain I won't waste my time. I really don't play WAR much so it doesn't effect me any in major way.

emerle said: »
Send a mule over.
You don’t have to send all your characters.

If you are short on Gil, you also can skip buying the hat. Flamma+2 is generally better. But legs hands and body are very usable.

I play all my mules and use them for events, I dont have any that I dont use for events.

Quickly plug in spreadsheet numbers using default accessories (so no Omen accessories), at capped acc and attack:

NQ 5/5: 25731
HQ 5/5 with same accessories and buffs: 26409

So roughly 2.5% increase from using 5 pieces of hq. Individual pieces would be less than 1% increase.

But keep in mind if attack and acc uncapped, hq will make bigger difference, especially if acc isn't capped.

The value of many melee hq is mostly acc swaps. If you always roll with rema brd then hq makes smaller difference, and vice versa.

Thanks Afania, yeah I usually have my BRD and GEO, both RMEA. I guess that answers a bunch.

edit: Im use to playing BLU, and typically I always have way to much ACC, so playing other jobs always seems awkward to me.
 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2018-05-07 11:12:30  
Fenrir.Aladeus said: »
Depends what you consider cheap drak. Last sales here for pants is 20m and feet for 9m. I only know cuz I have had one of each for sale for quite some time..

Other than that, ya. A few stat points for more gil, but if you're pimping or just have gil to shower us poor people with, then do It!
Odin is cheaper. My friend has final shield smithing, gold and cloth he sold to me about 30 mil per set. But then again 20 mil is still cheap compared to before final shields.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-05-07 11:13:21  
emerle said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Honestly, not many of the HQ abjurations are huge jumps from the NQ. But they are normally BIS improvements, so they should be judged based off of that, not whether or not "it provides only a small increase or a significant increase". An increase is an increase, can't go broke taking a profit.

edit:

Quote:
With out being able to compare the two I really have no clue

Just compare the NQ to the HQ via bg wiki? The difference took 2 minutes to eyeball. That's not too hard to notice.

FWIW, Resolution is definitely an amazing WS, so you should always look to get as much acc in there as you can, since it's multi-hit. Don't be fooled into the "i don't care about it because its not that much of an increase. 40acc is better than 30 acc. its that simple.

The gear progression in this game has always been marginal. Whether your talking about Dusk Gloves compared to Dusk Gloves +1 or Haubergeon to its +1 counterpart or in this specific example.

I agree. I ws merely using that as a modern example, since we're talking about abjuration stuff. Again, it goes back to being your best. You will not be ridiculed if you decide to be cheap and not buy it (exactly zero people would notice unless they asked to see your reso set).

Looking at the current asura prices its really low actually. So definitely worth buying, (speaking for myself now)
 Lakshmi.Elidyr
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By Lakshmi.Elidyr 2018-05-07 11:16:40  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
emerle said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »

Quote:
With out being able to compare the two I really have no clue

I agree. I ws merely using that as a modern example, since we're talking about abjuration stuff. Again, it goes back to being your best. You will not be ridiculed if you decide to be cheap and not buy it (exactly zero people would notice unless they asked to see your reso set).

Looking at the current asura prices its really low actually. So definitely worth buying, (speaking for myself now)

Haha. Well I definitely appreciate the info guys.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-05-07 11:19:37  
Correction: thought we were only talking about body, which is where my numbers in the first few posts came from. Just now realized you were talking about full set comparison. my bad.

still, difference is small. I use 4/5 hq, nq body, and don't know what I'm missing out on. I'm sure a 5/5 argosy isn't far behind anyways
 Lakshmi.Elidyr
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By Lakshmi.Elidyr 2018-05-07 11:23:07  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Correction: thought we were only talking about body, which is where my numbers in the first few posts came from. Just now realized you were talking about full set comparison. my bad.

still, difference is small. I use 4/5 hq, nq body, and don't know what I'm missing out on. I'm sure a 5/5 argosy isn't far behind anyways

Well 3/5 only really. I still don't think thats going to effect my outcome though any. I thought bonus was DA DMG% or somehting. Not sure why I thought that.
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By emerle 2018-05-07 11:25:20  
Lakshmi.Elidyr said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Correction: thought we were only talking about body, which is where my numbers in the first few posts came from. Just now realized you were talking about full set comparison. my bad.

still, difference is small. I use 4/5 hq, nq body, and don't know what I'm missing out on. I'm sure a 5/5 argosy isn't far behind anyways

Well 3/5 only really. I still don't think thats going to effect my outcome though any. I thought bonus was DA DMG% or somehting. Not sure why I thought that.


Feet are essentially useless. And head has fallen out of favor since the introduction of flamma +2.

Only use body legs and hands. I do however have the head.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-05-07 11:30:17  
Thanks for updating me. Goes to show how behind I am on reso sets
 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2018-05-07 12:21:25  
Lakshmi.Elidyr said: »
Before anyone just jumps to conclusions, I know HQ would be better. I am just curious about the gap between HQ and NQ for resolution. I have not seen an HQ up for I don't know how long, and while I can jump servers for it, I am just debating the cost/gains in doing so.

Thanks guys.

Remember too that the comparison probably shouldn't really be between 3/5 NQ Argosy and 3/5 Argosy+1 (and Flamma+2 head/feet in both sets). If you aren't using Argosy+1, you'd probably be best off with:

Body: NQ Argosy body (or a very similar Valorous Mail)

Hands: Sulevia+2 (11 less STR than NQ Argosy D, but Acc+28/Atk+17/DA+5%)

Legs: Relic+3 legs (10 less STR than NQ Argosy D, but advantages of about acc+10 (effective acc, when considering DEX), Atk+42, DA+1%, and DA Damage+11).

HQ Argosy set should still win, but it should be a bit closer than Afania's quick and dirty spreadsheet comparison of 5/5 NQ Argosy versus 5/5 HQ Argosy that resulted in ~2.5% WS damage difference.

To me, it really comes down to how much you care about WAR Reso. Is WAR one of your main jobs? Do you find yourself frequently doing MS Reso zerg fights where you're potentially at the edge of win/loss (where a couple percentage points more on your total WS damage might conceivably be a significant factor in winning)? Yeah, maybe dealing with the server transfer annoyance (and still not insignificant cost) for Argosy+1 is worth the hassle.

If you're occasionally using WAR as an alternate job (or with GA instead of GS), and when you do you aren't really at much risk of blowing a hard NM pop if you don't squeeze 100% out of your WS set? Maybe your difference is just that a Reso fight takes 10 seconds longer. Meh, IDK if I'd go through the annoyance just for that.
 Lakshmi.Elidyr
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By Lakshmi.Elidyr 2018-05-07 12:29:40  
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Lakshmi.Elidyr said: »
Before anyone just jumps to conclusions, I know HQ would be better. I am just curious about the gap between HQ and NQ for resolution. I have not seen an HQ up for I don't know how long, and while I can jump servers for it, I am just debating the cost/gains in doing so.

Thanks guys.

Remember too that the comparison probably shouldn't really be between 3/5 NQ Argosy and 3/5 Argosy+1 (and Flamma+2 head/feet in both sets). If you aren't using Argosy+1, you'd probably be best off with:

Body: NQ Argosy body (or a very similar Valorous Mail)

Hands: Sulevia+2 (11 less STR than NQ Argosy D, but Acc+28/Atk+17/DA+5%)

Legs: Relic+3 legs (10 less STR than NQ Argosy D, but advantages of about acc+10 (effective acc, when considering DEX), Atk+42, DA+1%, and DA Damage+11).

HQ Argosy set should still win, but it should be a bit closer than Afania's quick and dirty spreadsheet comparison of 5/5 NQ Argosy versus 5/5 HQ Argosy that resulted in ~2.5% WS damage difference.

To me, it really comes down to how much you care about WAR Reso. Is WAR one of your main jobs? Do you find yourself frequently doing MS Reso zerg fights where you're potentially at the edge of win/loss (where a couple percentage points more on your total WS damage might conceivably be a significant factor in winning)? Yeah, maybe dealing with the server transfer annoyance (and still not insignificant cost) for Argosy+1 is worth the hassle.

If you're occasionally using WAR as an alternate job (or with GA instead of GS), and when you do you aren't really at much risk of blowing a hard NM pop if you don't squeeze 100% out of your WS set? Maybe your difference is just that a Reso fight takes 10 seconds longer. Meh, IDK if I'd go through the annoyance just for that.

Thanks Cap, thats exactly what I was looking at. I run events, but I also run with my 5 mules a lot. So I try to justify both scenarios. It is an alternate job, but I also usually play BLU typically. While it's great, it doesn't put up the numbers WAR or DRK can. Just looking for something to keep the grind interesting. I appreciate the info!
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By Afania 2018-05-07 12:35:41  
Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Do you find yourself frequently doing MS Reso zerg fights

Should be using crit dmg augments for ms zerg I think.
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-05-07 12:54:41  
What's the NQ vs HQ comparison like on mobs where you're not going to be capping attack, like Dynamis-D bosses or when you're lacking in support?
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By emerle 2018-05-07 12:59:52  
The less buffs you have, the more important HQ or BiS gear becomes.

To clarify, if you are capping attack/acc while having a lot of buffs, the likelyhood that the extra acc/attack from HQ vs NQ is what is making you cap is lower. So you are really only benefiting from the str/dex/da/stp boost. However, it is perfectly possible that you need the HQ acc/attack to cap and dropping to NQ while having said buffs will make you uncapped.

This whole thread comes down to this: HQ is always better. Do you have the gil? If yes, and you play the job, buy it. If you don’t have the gil and don’t buy, you are not going to be able to “eyeball” the difference in damage between the two.
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