Is CaladBolg Worth Making If I Already Have .....

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is CaladBolg worth making if i already have .....
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 Bismarck.Vize
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By Bismarck.Vize 2019-02-04 02:44:38  
i already have AG ragnarok for my drk and war and calad would only be for my drk

i love how that big purple sword looks but if it will lose to ragnarok then i wont bother making one
 Asura.Chaostaru
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By Asura.Chaostaru 2019-02-04 03:23:45  
AG calad will ***on ragnorok 2 days from sunday.

Alot of GS ***on ragnorok, even Su3 on the AH

If you like Drk enough then make it. otherwise Dont
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 Bahamut.Spoilt
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By Bahamut.Spoilt 2019-02-04 03:24:24  
My friend has AG Calad and he does really good damage with it, not as good as my corsair of course but still regularly parses 2nd-3rd to my amazingly awesome cor.
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 Asura.Arnan
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By Asura.Arnan 2019-02-04 03:47:21  
Calad probably one of the best weapon in the game right now, especially since we've got all this damage limit+ stuff. The only GS better than calad is lionheart and DRK cant use that
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By SimonSes 2019-02-04 08:06:57  
Bismarck.Vize said: »
but if it will lose to ragnarok then i wont bother making one

The only scenario where Calad will lose to Ragnarok is when you are not buffed with enough accuracy and will start wiffing Torcleaver or in situation where you can't use Torcleaver at all.
 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2019-02-04 08:29:31  
Yea 100% make the cala rag is in a bad spot on top of that the ws is bad. I have an r15 cala and I've not been sad about it one bit. Like Simon said the time I could see a cala drk losing to a rag is no buffs even then it be hard to see happen by much. With all the buffs in the game right now acc really shouldn't be an issue.
 Bismarck.Firedemon
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2019-02-04 10:24:08  
I bet I'll still out-parse you with my Ragnarok.
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By Prong 2019-02-04 10:26:21  
SimonSes said: »
Bismarck.Vize said: »
but if it will lose to ragnarok then i wont bother making one

The only scenario where Calad will lose to Ragnarok is when the Ragnarok is being used by a WAR vs a DRK.
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 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2019-02-04 11:00:14  
you're the only one who knows if you'll be satisfied with how you invest your time guy.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-02-04 11:06:32  
Truly, Ragnarok is garbage, DRK shouldn't even bother using it tbh. Make a Cala any day before that weapon, it's not a great DRK weapon to be honest. Ad if we're talking about the singular benefit to using Ragnarok over any other weapon, I even prefer Apoc over Ragnarok due to it's utility in a few areas.

This isn't even a debate, make a Caladbolg if you're serious about pumping out some insane numbers. I'm more of a scythe kind of guy personally, as I like to temper my dps so I'm not in deadmode all the time. But there's is no comparison, empyrean gsword is incredible. I have watched even the most basic DRKs do very well with it.
 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2019-02-04 11:24:01  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Truly, Ragnarok is garbage, DRK shouldn't even bother using it tbh. Make a Cala any day before that weapon, it's not a great DRK weapon to be honest. Ad if we're talking about the singular benefit to using Ragnarok over any other weapon, I even prefer Apoc over Ragnarok due to it's utility in a few areas.

This isn't even a debate, make a Caladbolg if you're serious about pumping out some insane numbers. I'm more of a scythe kind of guy personally, as I like to temper my dps so I'm not in deadmode all the time. But there's is no comparison, empyrean gsword is incredible. I have watched even the most basic DRKs do very well with it.

Just got my Caladbolg and I love it. I ran into that situation mentioned where it's meh though. On Gin and had no acc buffs and only att food I didn't feel like antaciding. Whiffed 2 Torcleavers in a row, so decided to switch to Apocalypse and was fine. I thought about making a Ragnarok for that reason, but your comment makes me think sticking with Apocalypse is just fine.

I feel like Caladbolg is the weapon of choice since DRK gets Drain III and Dread Spikes to keep you fairly safe. Even so there are times where Apocalypse is awesome, and of course Scythe has some of the coolest WSes in the game with good properties.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-02-04 11:34:27  
That's precisely my reasoning to be frank about it. Ragnarok fares better as a Warrior weapon, and it's an acc swap at that. DRK should not have many issues Acc wise (especially vs arcana), but if they are going to make a reasonable swap into acc, it's going to be Apoc. R15 Catastrophe is impressive, self healing, decent SC properties on scythe (to Magic Burst juicy Drain 3 numbers), enhanced Drain Potency, unique JA Haste in addition to the accuracy. For Ragnarok, the only thing you are getting from that weapon is Accuracy. The crit damage/rate is meh, the delay is too low and requires you to adjust your xhit build, and you won't crank out Torcs nearly as stong as Cala. You'd better off using Apoc as a Dark Knight.

If you have both DRK + WAR, you can get use mileage out of it a little bit. But I could count on my one hand the few times I've used it on either job in the past year, and I am just not impressed with it's performance at this stage in the game. If I could right now, I would trade in my Ragnarok for Caladbolg straight up.
 Bahamut.Justthetip
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By Bahamut.Justthetip 2019-02-04 12:23:20  
Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
I bet I'll still out-parse you with my Ragnarok.
Good luck :D
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By SimonSes 2019-02-04 12:25:45  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
That's precisely my reasoning to be frank about it. Ragnarok fares better as a Warrior weapon, and it's an acc swap at that. DRK should not have many issues Acc wise (especially vs arcana), but if they are going to make a reasonable swap into acc, it's going to be Apoc. R15 Catastrophe is impressive, self healing, decent SC properties on scythe (to Magic Burst juicy Drain 3 numbers), enhanced Drain Potency, unique JA Haste in addition to the accuracy. For Ragnarok, the only thing you are getting from that weapon is Accuracy. The crit damage/rate is meh, the delay is too low and requires you to adjust your xhit build, and you won't crank out Torcs nearly as stong as Cala. You'd better off using Apoc as a Dark Knight.

Ok ok ok, let's stop for a second. Because that's a little too far of hype toward calad.

First thing, accuracy. When I was talking about accuracy, I was talking about WS accuracy. Currently in my Torcleaver set (I dont have +2 neck but that's only 5 acc more) I have 1067 accuracy. That's with Regal ring and +10 acc augment on hands and +13 on head. With Sushi that jumps to 1170 and with +100 accuracy to first hit it's 1270. This is enough for most things, but only with buffs. Ofc this can be pushed higher with better accuracy augment on odyssean, +2 neck, absorb-acc, absorb-dex, endark etc. but you need to keep that in mind, because some ppl dont even have accuracy on their oddysean, but only vit and WSD.
It's also the reason that you shouldnt be using Niqmaddu ring instead of Regal for Torc on anything serious. Not only it will drop your accuracy by 15, but even if you get quadruple attack proc, your multiattack hits will more than likely whiff without +100 accuracy bonus.

Next thing, delay. Ragnarok has 431 delay and you clal it low. FYI Caladbolg has 430 delay.

Next thing, if you want to use Resolution (you dont want to make SC for example), then Ragnarok is probably better for that, than Caladbolg, but there are other great swords that are even better for that.

Next thing, if you want to make double light or close Fragmentation with great sword, Scourge is the only GS WS with Fusion property.

I guess that's it.
 Odin.Archaide
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By Odin.Archaide 2019-02-04 12:26:07  
Liberator > Caladbolg > Everything Else

:)
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 Bismarck.Nickeny
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By Bismarck.Nickeny 2019-02-04 12:33:12  
Roses are red... violets are blue...

Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
I bet I'll still out-parse you with my <insert any weapon here>
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By volkom 2019-02-04 12:39:07  
do you not like smashing monsters into the ground with Torcleaver?
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-02-04 12:40:58  
SimonSes said: »
Next thing, delay. Ragnarok has 431 delay and you clal it low. FYI Caladbolg has 430 delay.

Next thing, if you want to use Resolution (you dont want to make SC for example), then Ragnarok is probably better for that, than Caladbolg, but there are other great swords that are even better for that.

Ok I kind of lumped into all of that my disdain for Ragnarok and said "low delay", "adjust xhit build", but with that in mind, I was actually comparing an even better option for Gsword, Montante +1. The loss of torcleaver damage going from Cala > Rag would be significant, less if you used the sarama sword (which would better improve your xhit in that case). Sorry for not clarifying.

Quote:
the delay is too low and requires you to adjust your xhit build, and you won't crank out Torcs nearly as stong as Cala.
 Odin.Archaide
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By Odin.Archaide 2019-02-04 12:43:24  
Bismarck.Nickeny said: »
Roses are red... violets are blue...

Bismarck.Firedemon said: »
I bet I'll still out-parse you with my <insert any weapon here>

Masamune! yep that ***rhymes! too bad sam is bad....

edit: just looked up how to properly pronounce Masamune and its MAH-SAH-MOO-NAY just fyi

Kogarasumaru rhymes though....
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-02-04 13:30:44  
Caladbolg is DRK's best DPS vomit weapon, just how it works out. Low delay is annoying, doubly so since Torc is a one hit WS with low TP return, but the damage growth on it is obscene. The R15 augments just made it stupidly better. DRK currently favors WS's that have dramatic scaling with WSD, and the entire DPS meta revolves around WS's with really high stat WSC boosts.
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 Odin.Archaide
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By Odin.Archaide 2019-02-04 13:38:37  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Caladbolg is DRK's best DPS vomit weapon, just how it works out. Low delay is annoying, doubly so since Torc is a one hit WS with low TP return, but the damage growth on it is obscene. The R15 augments just made it stupidly better. DRK currently favors WS's that have dramatic scaling with WSD, and the entire DPS meta revolves around WS's with really high stat WSC boosts.

I got bored of spamming Torc long time ago so went a made a Liberator. I've been meaning to ask but how does Lib fit into your testing number-wise? I see very small difference between the two but enjoy the playstyle of Lib much more.
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By Taint 2019-02-04 14:55:47  
60k+ Torcs never get old. Its kind of a mindless weapon but it does its job very well. Definitely a large step up from Rag especially at R15.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-02-04 15:05:35  
Odin.Archaide said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Caladbolg is DRK's best DPS vomit weapon, just how it works out. Low delay is annoying, doubly so since Torc is a one hit WS with low TP return, but the damage growth on it is obscene. The R15 augments just made it stupidly better. DRK currently favors WS's that have dramatic scaling with WSD, and the entire DPS meta revolves around WS's with really high stat WSC boosts.

I got bored of spamming Torc long time ago so went a made a Liberator. I've been meaning to ask but how does Lib fit into your testing number-wise? I see very small difference between the two but enjoy the playstyle of Lib much more.

Depends on the target and how it's being measured. 20% STR/INT is ~really~ bad for damage growth along with having all damage split among four hits with only the first getting a damage growth from TP. Having a 49.5% damage bonus from the weapon is nice but it gets next to nothing from +WSD unless you hold to 2K. Torc on the other hand gets full benefit from DRK's insane available WSD along with a 80% WSC option to boost the base damage. Calad comes with a 10% bonus to a WS that was already strong.

So if your someone who either holds TP to 2K or is really slow at hitting WS macro, then Liberator will seem to be really good. If your someone who plays aggressively and tries to always WS at 1K, then Calad is going to be amazing. Both require 3K TP to start so no real difference there.

To understand

@1K Liberator (+moonshade) Insurgency
First Hit 1.1875 (WSD applied here)
Extra hits: 3 x 1.0
Total: 4.1875 * 1.495 = 6.2603125

@2K Liberator (+moonshade) Insurgency
First Hit 3.9375 (WSD applied here, 63% for shits and giggles)
Extra hits: 3 x 1.0
Total: 9.3 * 1.495 = 13.9035

@1K Calad (+moonshade) Torc
First Hit: 5.4375 (WSD applied here, 63% for shits and giggles)
Total: 8.863125 * 1.10 = 9.7494375

#2K Calad (+moonshade) Torc
First Hit: 8.1875 (WSD applied here, 63% for shits and giggles)
Total: 13.345625 * 1.10 = 14.6801875

Now I think Scythe gets a little bit more WSD from SU3 gear but since I'm not at my computer I wanted to be conservative. @1K Insurgency will be gearing for MA and might average around 0.7~1.0 hits per WS. The biggest difference is in the WSC values in this age of iLevel stat vomit, 80% VIT is far better then 20/20 STR/INT, and Calad already starts with higher WDMG.

R15 Calad
WDMG: 375
Base: 314
+70 VIT (+56 WSC)
+20 STR (+5 fSTR)

R15 Lib
WDMG: 364

That being said, a 3K Insurgency that procs a multi-attack will make a really big number at the start of a fight before chat log spam drowns out all the other numbers. This is what most people think is "Damage". Not that Torc doesn't produce big numbers, it's just a helluva lot more consistent in those numbers.
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By Taint 2019-02-04 15:13:46  
DRK WSdmg sets come with 0 MA, so its as cut and dry as your math makes it. (COR roll would be the only MA available)

Posting my Cata set for reference but insurgency would use moonshade over Brutal.
ItemSet 362699
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-02-04 15:19:38  
Liberator's own AM3 provides some MA and that happens after the TP is drained but before the WS happens. That's where we can get a double AM3 TA proc on a 3K lib for ridiculous damage, only happens on 1.4% of WS's though. Very definition of "eyeball math".
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 Asura.Veikur
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By Asura.Veikur 2019-02-04 15:47:47  
You got a high end scythe TP set on hand, Taint? Used the Cata TP set you've got.

Lib's gonna be averaging something like, 1300 TP (11.03646375 fTP w/Moonshade) when they WS. Averaging 537 TP/round is silly ***.
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By SimonSes 2019-02-04 16:28:34  
@Saevel When compering Calad to Liberator, it would be nice to notice that the mythic has far superior tp gain, because after all..

Asura.Saevel said: »
You still didn't catch it... average WS damage is only part of the bigger picture. WS frequency exists for a reason.

:P
 Odin.Archaide
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By Odin.Archaide 2019-02-04 17:21:58  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Odin.Archaide said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Caladbolg is DRK's best DPS vomit weapon, just how it works out. Low delay is annoying, doubly so since Torc is a one hit WS with low TP return, but the damage growth on it is obscene. The R15 augments just made it stupidly better. DRK currently favors WS's that have dramatic scaling with WSD, and the entire DPS meta revolves around WS's with really high stat WSC boosts.

I got bored of spamming Torc long time ago so went a made a Liberator. I've been meaning to ask but how does Lib fit into your testing number-wise? I see very small difference between the two but enjoy the playstyle of Lib much more.

Depends on the target and how it's being measured. 20% STR/INT is ~really~ bad for damage growth along with having all damage split among four hits with only the first getting a damage growth from TP. Having a 49.5% damage bonus from the weapon is nice but it gets next to nothing from +WSD unless you hold to 2K. Torc on the other hand gets full benefit from DRK's insane available WSD along with a 80% WSC option to boost the base damage. Calad comes with a 10% bonus to a WS that was already strong.

So if your someone who either holds TP to 2K or is really slow at hitting WS macro, then Liberator will seem to be really good. If your someone who plays aggressively and tries to always WS at 1K, then Calad is going to be amazing. Both require 3K TP to start so no real difference there.

To understand

@1K Liberator (+moonshade) Insurgency
First Hit 1.1875 (WSD applied here)
Extra hits: 3 x 1.0
Total: 4.1875 * 1.495 = 6.2603125

@2K Liberator (+moonshade) Insurgency
First Hit 3.9375 (WSD applied here, 63% for shits and giggles)
Extra hits: 3 x 1.0
Total: 9.3 * 1.495 = 13.9035

@1K Calad (+moonshade) Torc
First Hit: 5.4375 (WSD applied here, 63% for shits and giggles)
Total: 8.863125 * 1.10 = 9.7494375

#2K Calad (+moonshade) Torc
First Hit: 8.1875 (WSD applied here, 63% for shits and giggles)
Total: 13.345625 * 1.10 = 14.6801875

Now I think Scythe gets a little bit more WSD from SU3 gear but since I'm not at my computer I wanted to be conservative. @1K Insurgency will be gearing for MA and might average around 0.7~1.0 hits per WS. The biggest difference is in the WSC values in this age of iLevel stat vomit, 80% VIT is far better then 20/20 STR/INT, and Calad already starts with higher WDMG.

R15 Calad
WDMG: 375
Base: 314
+70 VIT (+56 WSC)
+20 STR (+5 fSTR)

R15 Lib
WDMG: 364

That being said, a 3K Insurgency that procs a multi-attack will make a really big number at the start of a fight before chat log spam drowns out all the other numbers. This is what most people think is "Damage". Not that Torc doesn't produce big numbers, it's just a helluva lot more consistent in those numbers.

Thanks for the breakdown maybe I'll give Calad another shot when I get it to R15, its R10 at the moment.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2019-02-04 17:21:59  
SimonSes said: »
@Saevel When compering Calad to Liberator, it would be nice to notice that the mythic has far superior tp gain, because after all..

Asura.Saevel said: »
You still didn't catch it... average WS damage is only part of the bigger picture. WS frequency exists for a reason.

:P

It has better but not that much better, AM3 isn't quite what it used to be these days due to the mass quantities of MA we have now. AM can only proc after all QA, TA and DA rolls have been done, and if your Corsair has half a brain, and your Frailty isn't nerfed, you'll be riding Samurai's + Fighters cause DRK & WAR don't need more attack.

Plus Calad's double melee damage isn't something to forget.
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By Afania 2019-02-04 17:37:39  
Asura.Saevel said: »
SimonSes said: »
@Saevel When compering Calad to Liberator, it would be nice to notice that the mythic has far superior tp gain, because after all..

Asura.Saevel said: »
You still didn't catch it... average WS damage is only part of the bigger picture. WS frequency exists for a reason.

:P

It has better but not that much better, AM3 isn't quite what it used to be these days due to the mass quantities of MA we have now. AM can only proc after all QA, TA and DA rolls have been done, and if your Corsair has half a brain, and your Frailty isn't nerfed, you'll be riding Samurai's + Fighters cause DRK & WAR don't need more attack.

War and DRK dont need attack, but brd cor run do. Chaos roll still benefits 3 person in a 6 man pt.
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