Projection

Eorzea Time
 
 
 
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日本語版のFFXIVPRO利用したい場合は、上記の"JP"を設定して、又はjp.ffxivpro.comを直接に利用してもいいです
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Projection
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By 2019-07-14 14:19:51
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By 2019-07-14 14:25:48
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2019-07-14 14:40:12  
nah, actually he made the account just to get his feel-goods out about old buddies in ffxi, and then thorny accurately shat on it, so he started a 2nd thread to try and raise support for the butthurt.

Aint gonna fly bro.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2019-07-14 14:43:36  
Why did this need a second thread?

Either you don't know anything about responding to threads, or you are garnering for attention. My bets are for the latter.
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-07-14 14:48:49  
i never camped kings
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2019-07-14 15:08:58  
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
i never camped kings
I camped bad linkshells camping kings, so I could take it away from them when they wiped.

24/7 was a prime example. They had a ~40% win rate, so all of the other shells let their bots take it first, kill it down to 80%, wipe, and take it from there.

Those were the days.
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By 2019-07-14 15:53:04
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-07-14 16:22:42  
I guess I'm missing the part where my stupidity was brought to the forefront. I'm not judging anyone for playing too much, either. I'm just saying that there are very few people who demonstrate any ability above and beyond the standard in FFXI, because by design the game has very limited skill spread.

A 1-3 second wait between abilities with minimal movement does not make for an engaging game where people will truly excel. Compare a world class league of legends, overwatch, halo player to an average player of the same game. Do the same with XI. You probably can't even tell the difference for XI.
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 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2019-07-14 16:30:53  
Apes said: »
You think you can see into the hearts of people and know their inner thoughts, so you judge them for playing a game to much, but the reality is you don’t know them, nor their lives.

You hide behind cynicism and sarcasm, so you don’t have to be held accountable for your words.

The coward is what you are.

You attack these people on a personal level, so you get a personal response with your stupidity being brought to the forefront.
Same can be said of you, if you are honest with yourself.
 
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By 2019-07-14 17:05:08
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By Draylo 2019-07-14 17:31:15  
You are comparing a game of Chess to something like playing soccer, I mean... FFXI is way different than any game out there. Just because there is not dodging mechanics, doesn't mean there is some skill involved in various fights.
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-07-14 17:34:21  
If you think LoL, OW, even Halo don't have many more choices at any given point in time, and greater consequences for making them poorly, you're not very familiar with the games. Sure, you add in mechanical skill as a large component, but you aren't giving up the decision making('chess') portions or even reducing them. Decisions still need to be made, and much faster.

The idea that you can just stand outside of every aoe for 80% of the game is hilarious when put against any serious game.
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 Leviathan.Celebrindal
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By Leviathan.Celebrindal 2019-07-14 17:47:12  
there's a large group of long-term players of this game who grew up as Final Fantasy junkies, possibly if like me in the pre-internet days, and certainly the pre-online forums/wikis days. We enjoyed the nature of an RPG where figuring out different aspects of battle, storyline quests, and the like were some of the biggest reasons we enjoyed those games.

We often weren't PvP style game people, sure we'd play our Mortal Kombats now and then with friends, but we'd never be caught burning 6 hours straight at night before school like we did with stretches of FF VI and others.

But we shouldn't get to claim moral superiority because we play something of that Final Fantasy legacy vs something like Halo,etc. FFXI these days is essentially download a lua, copy/paste in your gear, read the wiki on it, mash buttons at the appropriate times. Hey, I enjoy the game plenty still, but I don't pretend that its a skill.
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By Sations 2019-07-14 18:09:11  
wow when did ffxiah go to ***
 Asura.Suteru
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By Asura.Suteru 2019-07-14 19:02:58  
Sations said: »
wow when did ffxiah go to ***

ffxiah was always ***
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By 2019-07-14 19:09:01
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By oyama 2019-07-14 21:26:43  
Quote:
Sure, you add in mechanical skill as a large component, but you aren't giving up the decision making('chess') portions or even reducing them. Decisions still need to be made, and much faster.

Can't speak for Draylo, but I don't think the point was that there isn't decision making or that there is less. The fact that it's faster is sort of the point. Decision making with preparation and configuration ahead of time, and then just execution with some time leniency, is a lot different than snap or reflex judgments with psychomotor skills. To use the soccer example, you could say both soccer and chess require decision making, but comparing them as activities is apples to oranges. Same for comparing FFXI to an FPS.

I don't know that there even are "world class" ffxi players, so yea the skill ceiling isn't that high, but there is a noticeable difference in performance between an ffxi player who knows what they're doing and has just a few tools, and someone who doesn't. It's just a lot of that skill is based on knowledge and experience and the gear that came with it, rather than being good at the controls of the game or something like that.
 Odin.Senaki
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By Odin.Senaki 2019-07-14 21:30:29  
What if you don't use any Add-ons and are vanilla af? Does the game require 'skill' then? lol
 Asura.Topace
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By Asura.Topace 2019-07-14 22:07:45  
Just here to say no one gives a ***

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By Nadleeh Sakurai 2019-07-14 22:38:26  
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 Phoenix.Erics
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By Phoenix.Erics 2019-07-15 00:14:18  
Every game mentioned to take more skill than ffxi is a PVP centric game and its one of the reasons barely anyone cared about ballista except for a handful of players. This game was designed for PVE and to try to compare the 'skill' it takes to down something with set mechanics and minimal RNG elements compared to say.. trying to shoot a 12 year old high on ring pops and MTN Dew running in zigzags in halo isnt fair or honest.

At one point this game absolutely took skill. Someone had to figure out how to do most quest from barely any information, they had to find fight mechanics each patch, and had to organize people to exploit those mechanics in their favor, so that other people could copy what they do or use their findings to improvise their own way.

Being able to lowman bot things is mainly possible because someone else already figured out how to do it for you. Which leads me back to my initial point that anything thats going to be figured out in this game has been done. The 'skill' has been effectively removed for anyone who can follow directions. However, in games of PVP the mechanics of fights change from opponent to opponent regardless of how well you prepared. It's easier to claim they take more skill because theres always adaptive skill to be gained, in this game most of what people would call skill has been figured out years ago.

This is just my take based on my experience playing this game since release and playing other games like dark souls where theres so much more depth to combat that even though ive spent hundreds of hours in certain zones and know exactly how the PVE mechanics work, the PVP mechanics are never predictable. Sure theres META but META is never 100% effective vs people who are either too dumb to know they are messing up your perfect plan or worse, they know exactly what you're doing and how to defeat you because by using META you are using predictable mechanics.
 Odin.Drakenv
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By Odin.Drakenv 2019-07-15 00:40:28  
But why another thread ;0
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By huttburt<3 2019-07-15 00:41:17  
Like, maybe it's not about that man. Can't people enjoy this game for what it is?
It's chill for a reason.
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By missdivine 2019-07-15 02:24:49  
I agree with Comeatmebro, ffxi was never a game that requires skill, It was horrible and super flawed back @lvl 75 era, game developers stated it a while ago. This alone invalidates the "Legendary Players" argument.

Most people that have lots of mythics and relics are bought accounts that are circulating around for very long From old players on this game.

Everyone bots and even my mom has a REMA weapon/master jobs, just need a few real bucks and you're done. I did all endgame content with just tons of bots and multi-box players leeching cards from omen and everything they can in order to gear up accounts for real cash. It requires no skill, but windower and a few other tricks. Endgame content has no challenging mechanics you just have to figure out what jobs to bring and stand on a single spot while a tanker just afk / having a whm bot for na/cure spells. Everything is easier now.

I remember the ffxi community was extremely toxic and bitter /full of drama on the killingifrit forums back then. It got better now that everyone is older (because only hardcore players remain playing ffxi) This is not welcoming at all for new players and it never will be, ffxi is too slow and orthodox with unlabeled NPCs.
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 Asura.Syto
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By Asura.Syto 2019-07-15 09:11:20  
There are some trivial points here.

While I agree that this game has many basic mechanics and may not require much skill compared to other games , there are some areas where skill can shine through..

There is a certain degree of skill involved at this stage where you are controlling multiple accounts.. Let's take this concept even further and remove "send" addons and scripts that help you automate these accounts, then suddenly you are alt tabbing and having to bounce back and fourth windows and think several more steps ahead which makes it more challenging...

Also there are a degrees of communication skills and socialization skills involved in building an effective team that works together perfectly.. This falls into the leadership skill area as well.. No average Joe from the street can do this..


Right now addons are skewing our perception a bit.. But there are areas of FFXI that require skill.. Also, let's not forget the creators of all the addons deserve some skill credit... They definitely applied their programming skills..

You have to take each category of association and judge all involved in FFXI independently..
 Asura.Kingnobody
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2019-07-15 09:21:14  
Only skill that was really required in this game was surviving lvl 75 Dynamis Windurst death houses and that one *** who goes Leeroy Jerkins and pulls the entire zone.

On an unrelated note, I'm sorry about all those times I went Leeroy Jerkins and pulled the entire zone during lvl 75 Dynamis Windurst runs.
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By fonewear 2019-07-15 09:39:58  
Legend has it terrible threads on ffxiah will never die.
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By fonewear 2019-07-15 09:49:24  
This thread is so good you should probably make a third thread about it.
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By Nadleeh Sakurai 2019-07-15 09:52:06  
it is not about who has the best skills, it is about who has the best decision making.
or who has the bestest auto macros
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By fonewear 2019-07-15 09:56:05  
I think this thread is about the psychological projection OP is trying to get rid of unwanted feelings and thoughts in the form of terrible threads.
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