SAM AF+1

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Samurai » SAM AF+1
SAM AF+1
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-02 11:50:43  
Quote:
(I'm sure you would understand this, if you did salvage and didn't buy your gear from shouting in whitegate)

Not altered.
 Gilgamesh.Ittoryu
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By Gilgamesh.Ittoryu 2009-12-02 12:44:19  
didnt read through everything to see if you answered his question. If you dont have shura haidate, I'd say get the legs. I don't see any point in wasting coins to gapeet the helm, wyvern helm is way cheaper. Hands are pretty good for high accuracy ws: rana, penta etc.
 Seraph.Octaviusc
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By Seraph.Octaviusc 2009-12-02 13:04:16  
Fairy.Vegetto said:
Seraph.Octaviusc said:
I would invest in an Onimaru and spend the rest of your gil on gear. Hagun is overrated. You will get a much better return on gear setup first then Hagun later if you still want one.
Most of sam's good gear is rare/ex. I don't see what's buyable that would beat out hagun's benefit.


You don't all of a sudden end up with the best rare/ex gear on a job prior to leveling it. This takes a lot of time and effort to get, I was talking about in the meantime. Things like fumas, rings, other things like that you can get until you're able to phase them out with that rare/ex gear.

On the other hand, there isn't much in the way of a better TP body piece than hauby +1 and I use toreador's ring to TP in. Those two alone run around 5.5-6 million on Seraph.
 Bahamut.Rumaha
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By Bahamut.Rumaha 2009-12-02 13:18:22  
I just got my 2nd piece last night, and I'm saving ABCs and going to +1 legs first, only pieces worth it imo are hands and legs, I solo in my K.Osode, but for any serious tanking Arhats/+1 body is far better then the AF+1 body as people have mentioned, the legs are nice for WS because (iirc) only Shura+1 and Hachiryu have more STR, and the legs are easier to obtain you could say(and most definitely cheaper to obtain). They also have sTP on them, which can help for TP w/o Byakko's and even on WS to help keep the sTP#.

If you are going to solo something and are worried about evading, why go from hauby to something w/o eva at all? That seems like half assing it, that's why I use K.Osode, I like the acc atk eva def etc mix on it, also can use SH. Just my .02, I would say go for legs first, as that is what I am doing. ^^
 Gilgamesh.Ittoryu
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By Gilgamesh.Ittoryu 2009-12-02 13:35:55  
i would say hagun + haub > oni + haub +1
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-02 13:40:46  
Seraph.Octaviusc said:
Fairy.Vegetto said:
Seraph.Octaviusc said:
I would invest in an Onimaru and spend the rest of your gil on gear. Hagun is overrated. You will get a much better return on gear setup first then Hagun later if you still want one.
Most of sam's good gear is rare/ex. I don't see what's buyable that would beat out hagun's benefit.


You don't all of a sudden end up with the best rare/ex gear on a job prior to leveling it. This takes a lot of time and effort to get, I was talking about in the meantime. Things like fumas, rings, other things like that you can get until you're able to phase them out with that rare/ex gear.

On the other hand, there isn't much in the way of a better TP body piece than hauby 1 and I use toreador's ring to TP in. Those two alone run around 5.5-6 million on Seraph.
As the above poster said, those are lesser upgrades than Hagun.

%increase/dollar, Hagun kills haub+1 and toreador's. Fuma, you can camp rare/ex and even if not, those are cheap anyways.
 Seraph.Octaviusc
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By Seraph.Octaviusc 2009-12-02 13:44:11  
The only good thing about a Hagun obviously are the big WS numbers you can put up from using it. The weapon offers nothing else and the low D you get off of it makes it terrible for merit style PTs, especially on greater colibri. I can outparse and do more DoT with a polearm on birds with my setup than another Sam using a Hagun with inferior gear.
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-02 13:52:07  
What does that have to do w/ GKTs though? Of course Polearm is better in places. I'm saying WHEN you use gkts, hagun is better than most other gkts, and by enough for the price to be where it's at.

I use polearm on birds, nobody's denying how good polearm is. We're saying when it comes to gkt builds, hagun will be a better upgrade than the haub+1 ect.

Even then, haub+1 and toreador's ring wouldn't do much for your polearm build, since the main increases of damage from those pieces are the increases in accuracy, which with your build, you should be using crab sushi anyways (unless your current displayed build is much different than your polearm build)
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-02 13:52:59  
Seraph.Octaviusc said:
The only good thing about a Hagun obviously are the big WS numbers you can put up from using it.
Also, that's kinda the point. Sam's ws account for about 70% of their damage, so pumping up the ws is pumping up the vast majority of your damage.
 Bahamut.Zorander
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By Bahamut.Zorander 2009-12-02 14:32:32  
Seraph.Octaviusc said:
The only good thing about a Hagun obviously are the big WS numbers you can put up from using it. The weapon offers nothing else and the low D you get off of it makes it terrible for merit style PTs, especially on greater colibri. I can outparse and do more DoT with a polearm on birds with my setup than another Sam using a Hagun with inferior gear.

Of course you can Polearm is win @ birds! What about higher Def mobs or hell even Mamool Ja merits where you would be using GK, can you still out parse better geared hagun users? (if you say yes to this everyone will know you are lying!) I know it has been said a thousand times but Hagun will win...ive tested it others have too Hagun is wins, nothing much really to say.
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-02 14:34:17  
Well, mamools is situational. If you have what I call the perfect set up, it'll still beat gkt by a fair margin. (2 dds 3 buffers 1 mage). When you're buffed to ***on polearm sam, with a pizza+1, even mamools fear the tomoe, but yea any less than 3 buffers and should prolly use gkt.
 Ifrit.Phlow
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By Ifrit.Phlow 2009-12-02 14:36:59  
On Topic:

Pants if you think you will need them, but as soon as you get good WS pants Myo Pants+1 are a waste. Instead, upgrade helm and hands, redo your AF quests, and turn in the set for inventory +5 (net gain of +3).
Asura.Korpg said:
Did I say I tanked Chariots as SAM/WAR?
Doing it lowman (I'm sure you would understand this, if you did salvage and didn't buy your gear from shouting in whitegate)

Dude. Honestly. The guy was solo'ing his own Salvage pieces back in '08. As a Samurai. So in honesty, you should probably go back to whatever job you do, I've found nothing that I disagree with Veggy on in this thread.

On the subject of Dooooomaaaaaaaaruuuuuuuuu, it's a bad piece, even for tanking.

Edit to include this:
Bahamut.Nightcrew said:
Vegetto, how up-to-date is your Sam stuff. cuz i see you have Smilod. Mantle 1 for WS. ive never been able to get a straight answer on it, Smilod. Mantle 1 vs Amemet Mantel 1 for WS?

The pDif is screwy with Y/G/K.

Check this pic out to see the effective caps for ATK on a given mob:



Considering you cap out @ like 450 for meripo and 550 for most lower level mobs, STR is more beneficial, especially with a 75% WS mod.
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-02 14:39:42  
Ifrit.Phlow said:
On Topic:

Pants if you think you will need them, but as soon as you get good WS pants Myo Pants 1 are a waste. Instead, upgrade helm and hands, redo your AF quests, and turn in the set for inventory 5 (net gain of 3).
Asura.Korpg said:
Did I say I tanked Chariots as SAM/WAR?
Doing it lowman (I'm sure you would understand this, if you did salvage and didn't buy your gear from shouting in whitegate)

Dude. Honestly. The guy was solo'ing his own Salvage pieces back in '08. As a Samurai. So in honesty, you should probably go back to whatever job you do, I've found nothing that I disagree with Veggy on in this thread.

On the subject of Dooooomaaaaaaaaruuuuuuuuu, it's a bad piece, even for tanking.
lol that was when I just dinged. I was actually getting gkt skill ups in that run.

I prefer to do it as mnk, goes much faster and damn lol that was a long time ago.

Edit: Sure do miss those dusk gloves+1, was fun while they lasted.
 Gilgamesh.Ittoryu
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By Gilgamesh.Ittoryu 2009-12-02 14:41:26  
seriously when I first finished my SAM, I always thought I would never dish out a few mil for hagun and bought an onimaru. Ever since I've bought hagun, I've noticed a significant damage increase. SAM damage is all about WS, when you fight NM's its also all about WS. I've sold hagun 3 times to buy onimaru 3 times and regretted it every single time. Trust me, hagun is one of samurai's most significant AH gear.
 Fairy.Tbest
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By Fairy.Tbest 2009-12-02 14:48:09  
*Nods in agreement.* Don't even try to start the Onimaru is better than Hagun bit, we all know it's false. Sure, a well-geared/merited Onimaru Sam can beat a poorly-geared/non-merited Hagun Sam. With the same armor, a Hagun Sam will beat an Onimaru Sam.

And yes... A good Polearm Sam will beat a good Hagun Sam on birds because of the +25% increase in damage for piercing over slashing on them. A poor Polearm Sam however will NOT beat a good Hagun Sam on birds. That 25% increase in damage can only do so much after all.
 Gilgamesh.Ittoryu
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By Gilgamesh.Ittoryu 2009-12-02 14:49:19  
poorly geared polearm sam will be missing a lot, so -25% increase in dmg :D
 Quetzalcoatl.Dawnn
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By Quetzalcoatl.Dawnn 2009-12-02 14:58:24  
so Phlow, does this chart mean that yuki is better on mobs with lower def?

everyone i know on sam is a gekko ***, if im not closing or opening a SC i usually try to mix it up a bit, maybe even get a blind or para off on the mob to help out the tank or whatnot

and from doing this ive seen some pretty nice yuki's... but still 80% of the time gekko can do more


but yeah if thats true then it kinda makes sense
 Fairy.Tbest
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By Fairy.Tbest 2009-12-02 15:00:43  
Generally I use Kasha b/c I have that ws gorget and I prefer para over silence on the mob. >.>
 Gilgamesh.Ittoryu
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By Gilgamesh.Ittoryu 2009-12-02 15:03:46  
i have snow gorget, so rana and gekko for me. I dunno why, but i never use yuki anymore unless I want to want to do a light sc.
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-02 15:05:55  
Fairy.Tbest said:
Generally I use Kasha b/c I have that ws gorget and I prefer para over silence on the mob. >.>
I can help w/ snow gorget if you need. Yovra are always fun and don't take long at all really (100% drop too)
 Ifrit.Phlow
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By Ifrit.Phlow 2009-12-02 15:07:35  
Quote:
so Phlow, does this chart mean that yuki is better on mobs with lower def?

everyone i know on sam is a gekko ***, if im not closing or opening a SC i usually try to mix it up a bit, maybe even get a blind or para off on the mob to help out the tank or whatnot

Quote tags aren't working, so I'mma ghetto rig this.

Nadda, it means that in order to cap your pDif on for example a Greater Colibri, you need 575-ish ATK with Yuki and 425-ish attack on Gekko, with Kasha falling in between.

pDif is the ratio between mobs def and your attack. Adding more attack than what that line outlines would produce little to no benefit.

So Gekko is actually better on higher level mobs. It doesn't have a huge impact on lower level mobs. Smilo+1 is generally acceptable for most lower HNMs and meripos that you use GKT for.

I generally full time WS smilo because ATK to 600 is easy.
 Fairy.Tbest
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By Fairy.Tbest 2009-12-02 15:08:39  
Yeah, I 'should' get a Snow Gorget... I've just been lazy / busy with other things. >.>
 Quetzalcoatl.Dawnn
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By Quetzalcoatl.Dawnn 2009-12-02 15:09:27  
ahhh i understand now, thanks ><
 Seraph.Caiyuo
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By Seraph.Caiyuo 2009-12-02 16:17:53  
Ifrit.Phlow said:
Quote:
so Phlow, does this chart mean that yuki is better on mobs with lower def?

everyone i know on sam is a gekko ***, if im not closing or opening a SC i usually try to mix it up a bit, maybe even get a blind or para off on the mob to help out the tank or whatnot

Quote tags aren't working, so I'mma ghetto rig this.

Nadda, it means that in order to cap your pDif on for example a Greater Colibri, you need 575-ish ATK with Yuki and 425-ish attack on Gekko, with Kasha falling in between.

pDif is the ratio between mobs def and your attack. Adding more attack than what that line outlines would produce little to no benefit.

So Gekko is actually better on higher level mobs. It doesn't have a huge impact on lower level mobs. Smilo 1 is generally acceptable for most lower HNMs and meripos that you use GKT for.

I generally full time WS smilo because ATK to 600 is easy.
Thanks much for the graph and the breakdown! I'd been wondering how attack affected all 3 of YGK since I'd only ever heard about Gekko's "cap" and wondered for awhile if it was the same across the board. Saving that ***.

Also not to stroke SAM cawk in here, but just for the sake of backing his words, Vegetto seriously god damn knows his ***. lol At this point I'm probably more likely to just PM him about questions instead of making topics unless I thought it'd be something more people wanted to know about.
 Bahamut.Stanflame
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By Bahamut.Stanflame 2009-12-06 02:12:48  
Sylph.Hitetsu said:
Long boring story short, I'm finally bothering doing SAM AF and I have a full AF 1 set sitting in my MH and don't know which piece I should HQ.

I'm torn between Legs, Hands and Head (Head because it'll replace my Wyvern Helm also >.>)


Thoughts? Genuine suggestions?


If you need them here, legs+1, heands+1, and probably head also. Legs is if you do not have shura also for head. I assume you have them if no though, pick them and hands are good for penta thrust I hear, I have not up graded mine yet.