Yeah I figured that out afterwards from your post, but I don't know how to delete my posts cause I'm half asleep still, and apparently a noob! -Wanders off to find more coffee-
Thanks though =D
Trial Of The Magians: Samurai
|
Trial of the Magians: Samurai
Sechs, I agree, we definitely need some firm theory and comparisons here by experienced SAMs. I can follow wiki's formulas well enough but I don't have the experience to take into account things like different situations, the trade-offs between different types of food v.s. different stats on equips, etc., so all I can do is crunch the raw numbers for dmg and see what turns up.
That said, I was actually leaning the same way as you about the 14 base dmg > TP bonus, but it turns out that, even then, you end up with Hagun having a couple % lead. (Again, this depends somewhat on how much your WS dmg does over your TP dmg, which depends on your other gear in a WS swap as well, so it's not cut-and-dry.) But still, I was surprised by just how big of a deal TP bonus actually is. It really, really has a huge impact -- enough to make this close, I think. If the next Magian updates boost this further, though, I doubt there will be much of a question anymore lol I sold my hagun a little while ago so I could push more gil into my relic, and because I hardly play my SAM, I'll definitely be picking up the high base GKT after I finish my Katana as it is; free, and has a killer base DMG
mdkuser posted a very nice theorycraft about Radennotachi on BG. You can read it HERE.
He gets to the following results: In a typical situation Hagun > Raden if your WS damage is 65% or more of your total damage, and vice-versa. Since normally WS damage in a SAM's overall damage is around 70% or more (at least for me, last time I checked) I'd say than Radennotachi once again fails in beating Hagun. mdkuser notes how in a couple of situations Raden could be better than Hagun, but in those same situations even a very good Rindomaru (Pixie weapon) could be better than Hagun, and even better than Raden (according to him). I have no means to tell if there are any flaws in his theorycraft, but it surely seems very well done, I'm leaning to think he got it right. What confuses me is the damage balancement, I was honestly thinking that +14 Damage (Raden) would have been better than +100% TP (Hagun). I mean, I quote again my very simple and naive way of thinking that I had before. If +9dam/+8str (Futsu) beats +100%TP (Hagun), then +14dam (Raden) will do it as well! I was probably missing the important part of the 5hit. Futsu probably doesn't beat hagun because of the +9dam/+8STR, but because of the 5hit build. Futsu's single WS at 100%TP are slightly weaker than Hagun's 100%TP WS, but over the same amount of time Hagun does 10 WS while Futsu does 12 (numbers are made-up, using them just an example). Those additional WS compensate the very small lack of damage on each of them, and in the end actually makes Futsu better. From this point of view Raden is slightly better than Futsu, if you look at the raw stats, but it still isn't enough compared to the 100%TP bonus, and since Raden lacks the 5hit thing, it falls behind Hagun. Dunno, I'm just trying to give a rational explanation to understand why Futsu beats Hagun and Raden appearently does not. Always glad to hear more people comment on this stuff :) Kanjirou said: If the next Magian updates boost this further, though, I doubt there will be much of a question anymore lol Well if they let you further augment your Raden and don't allow you to augment your hagun then maybe there's still a chance...
Either way, Raden has become a goal so I plan to stick with it and at least give it a shot. Phoenix.Huwhuddep said: Well if they let you further augment your Raden and don't allow you to augment your hagun then maybe there's still a chance... They're still thinking about this all and haven't made up their minds, wonder what will happen. Being able to Magian salvage gear sure would be hot, but I don't really expect SE to be that kind towards us :P Well I'd say Raden still has a hell of a shot.
Anyways I'm tired so I think I'll stop here and see what I can get done tomorrow lol. That post by mdkuser makes a lot of sense and doesn't surprise me much. Still, I'm going to get a Raden on the off chance that SE lets us boost it further next Magian update. I mean, we've still got 2 more updates, a lvl 99 cap increase, and Abbyssea. I have a hard time believing that Hagun's going to survive all of that. But, as of right now, it looks like it's still king.
Sechs, I think you've got the breakdown on Futsu/Hagun/Raden exactly right. And oh god droolgasmlfkasjdlgkhasdlgh @ salvage gear upgrades. Yesplsthnxholy$#@! Kanjirou said: And oh god droolgasmlfkasjdlgkhasdlgh @ salvage gear upgrades. Yesplsthnxholy$#@! I really hope they'll give us a chance to use TotM on Salvage gear at least :( So far they only said they're "thinking" about it /emo 644>645>646>652>653>654 (10 krabkatoa shells)
Kurodachi DMG:68 Delay:464 Occasionally attacks twice Delay:464 so 5hit build possible i guess in a way Remora.Itachiryu said: 644>645>646>652>653>654 (10 krabkatoa shells) Kurodachi DMG:68 Delay:464 Occasionally attacks twice Delay:464 so 5hit build possible i guess in a way Oh dang, I completely missed that. Brb checking stuff. Okay, math time:
For a 464 Delay GK, TP return per hit is 11.5 + [(464 - 450) * 1.5 / 30] = 11.5 + [14 * 1.5 / 30] = 11.5 + 0.7 = 12.2 To get a 5-hit build, we need a return of 20, which means we need at least 20/12.2 = ~1.64 This means that you would need at least 64 sTP to do a 5-hit build with Kurodachi. Even with 35 sTP from Traits and Merits, that leaves you with 29 more to go purely in gear. I don't see that happening. =/ The delay on Kurodachi is simply not large enough to support a real 5-hit build. If anything i'm more keen to use the 89 base dmg Raddenotachi for RANA and 200-300tp YGK, even though i think there will be little if any difference with YGK between Radden and Hagun, still waits to be seen but RANA number with 89 base dmg is just pure sex on a sword. People who say Rana is ***dont know what hey are on about, with the right build and right GKT, Rana is a very very worthwhile sc to have and not just a "lesser" ws to YGK. FEAR THY RANA!
Kanjirou said: Okay, math time: For a 464 Delay GK, TP return per hit is 11.5 [(464 - 450) * 1.5 / 30] = 11.5 [14 * 1.5 / 30] = 11.5 0.7 = 12.2 To get a 5-hit build, we need a return of 20, which means we need at least 20/12.2 = ~1.64 This means that you would need at least 64 sTP to do a 5-hit build with Kurodachi. Even with 35 sTP from Traits and Merits, that leaves you with 29 more to go purely in gear. I don't see that happening. =/ The delay on Kurodachi is simply not large enough to support a real 5-hit build. I made a situational setup i suppose http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=146737 i could see someone somewhere making it work lol Valefor.Ryukuro said: If anything i'm more keen to use the 89 base dmg Raddenotachi for RANA and 200-300tp YGK, even though i think there will be little if any difference with YGK between Radden and Hagun, still waits to be seen but RANA number with 89 base dmg is just pure sex on a sword. People who say Rana is ***dont know what hey are on about, with the right build and right GKT, Rana is a very very worthwhile sc to have and not just a "lesser" ws to YGK. FEAR THY RANA! has anyone had a Raddenotachi and hagun long enough to post a parse? im interested to see someones results on both.
and on earlier arguements... how could u compare a futsuno to Raddenotachi? the fact pure and simple is that when is STR for sam needed? ws's the debatable question should be more like how the tp process equals out. even then im pretty sure futsuno will win 1 less hit to 100% sure all this is debatable but if theres further augments aloowed on Raddenotachi... easily put Amano > Raddenotachi > futsuno (slightly over) > hagun can question debate or w/e but this be my opinion. and only time a sam should use penta is on birds. rana can be knocked all it wants but soloing rana rapes...and on gods hnm w/e im sure rana > sata gekko rana serves big purpose also. Hagun beats Radden by about 2%. You want something that beats Hagun, work on the OAT GKT. If the proc rate is 50% it'll destroy Hagun.
Futsuno v Amano's a lot closer than you're implying on high level mobs, though Amano definitely wins on lower level mobs. As for Penta... more hits, stronger WSC, and the use of a 5-hit weapon rather than a 6-hit. Penta can and will be useful beyond piercing weak mobs if you build and eat for it properly. Need Vegetto's parse of a polearm SAM against Dynamis Lord... The OAT weapons are all hard to get requring 10 of a new tier4 VNM drop. Is there an occ attacks x times weapon that has a poor proc rate? i don't believe so. i agree we can only speculate til one is made, but i imagine they'll be good.
why did you edit your first post lol...
and no i dont need to see veg's parse, as far as polearm goes i could care less, traditional samurais use gk so should they on a video game lol, my post wasnt a arguement starter "not all sams merit polearm" nor carry the gear to support it, im sure veg got some outstanding parses to post but i'm not vegetto. and hes also a freak of nature lol... traditional samurai used all types of weapons, including polearms. not trying to light the fire, just sayin.
[+]
Valefor.Mattyc said: why did you edit your first post lol... Quote: and no i dont need to see veg's parse, as far as polearm goes i could care less, traditional samurais use gk so should they on a video game lol, my post wasnt a arguement starter "not all sams merit polearm" nor carry the gear to support it, im sure veg got some outstanding parses to post but i'm not vegetto. and hes also a freak of nature lol...  Also real Samurai used a shitton of different weapons.
[+]
lol i know infantry mostly used polearms but generals in most cases didnt. and no i shoulda clarified that haha.
Valefor.Mattyc said: why did you edit your first post lol... and no i dont need to see veg's parse, as far as polearm goes i could care less, traditional samurais use gk so should they on a video game lol, my post wasnt a arguement starter "not all sams merit polearm" nor carry the gear to support it, im sure veg got some outstanding parses to post but i'm not vegetto. and hes also a freak of nature lol... You really don't know much about samurais if you think they traditionally just used a katana. Often times they would fight on horse back and use pole arms along with bow and arrows. In all honesty, SAM can easily carry all the gear necessary to utilize both a GK and Polearm build without much trouble. Valefor.Mattyc said: lol i know infantry mostly used polearms but generals in most cases didnt. and no i shoulda clarified that haha. wut Pugilists and h2h specialists used bows and poles.
(Yes yes, I know I can use a staff, but If I do people will hit me and rightly so) jesus christ flame on, guess the name goes with your cocky attitude congratulations on being a ***disturber mr.matterafact.
inb4 shitstorm
Valefor.Mattyc said: jesus christ flame on, guess the name goes with your cocky attitude congratulations on being a ***disturber mr.matterafact.  I could do this all day.
[+]
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Valefor.Mattyc said: jesus christ flame on, guess the name goes with your cocky attitude congratulations on being a ***disturber mr.matterafact. I could do this all day. To be fair, you are a bit of a knob jockey. Just a smidgen. |
All FFXIV and FFXI content and images © 2002-2024 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD.
FINAL FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.