6hit Build, Sword Strap Or Pole Grip

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Samurai » 6hit build, sword strap or pole grip
6hit build, sword strap or pole grip
 Fenrir.Krazyrs
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By Fenrir.Krazyrs 2010-04-05 17:19:24  
Sylph.Sindri said:
Rose Strap



2% DA vs 3% Haste
both 6hits hmmm
 Alexander.Nepharite
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By Alexander.Nepharite 2010-04-05 17:20:27  
linear is on top of this thread :o
 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-04-05 17:22:25  
Entertaining myself between NM pops. Davoi is a gold mine when (ab)used correctly.
 Ragnarok.Blindphleb
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-04-05 17:31:16  
Fenrir.Krazyrs said:
2% DA vs 3% Haste
both 6hits hmmm

I assume you're using the rose strap to replace usu feet? In which case it isn't just a 2% DA vs 3% Haste comparison. First of all usu feet have 2% haste on them, which would bring the difference down to 1% haste. Then you have the acc you need to figure in. Usu feet have 7acc, PCC has +5 over your Chiv chain, Sea Torque has ~+2 acc. So you lose ~9-12 acc, 7atk, and 2% DA vs. 1% Haste
[+]
 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-04-05 17:35:45  
If you brought that up on say... BG or if Konda was responding to you on KI they'd mention Marinara Pizza +1. It magically fixes anything and everything. Much like duct tape. I guess.
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2010-04-05 18:07:43  


Don't forget this setup also.

In pure DD output I believe it was found to be the best, but I may be wrong here.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-04-05 18:17:28  
Caitsith.Linear said:
If you brought that up on say... BG or if Konda was responding to you on KI they'd mention Marinara Pizza 1. It magically fixes anything and everything. Much like duct tape. I guess.
For the most part they'd be right, in all honesty. Same reason Ace's is so niche now.
Midgardsormr.Frobeus said:
Invalid Item Set

Don't forget this setup also.

In pure DD output I believe it was found to be the best, but I may be wrong here.
Aside from the obvious ***is situational swaps we're both aware of, as a general rule you're not wrong.
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2010-04-05 18:21:17  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Caitsith.Linear said:
If you brought that up on say... BG or if Konda was responding to you on KI they'd mention Marinara Pizza 1. It magically fixes anything and everything. Much like duct tape. I guess.
For the most part they'd be right too, in all honesty. Same reason Ace's is so niche now.
Midgardsormr.Frobeus said:
Don't forget this setup also. In pure DD output I believe it was found to be the best, but I may be wrong here.
Aside from the obvious ***is situational swaps we're both aware of, as a general rule you're not wrong.

Yeah, neck,ring,back etc, was just putting stuff in there.

Xhit/haste/grip the important part here.
 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-04-05 18:26:59  
Well, that sets based on the assumtion that /WAR is the optimal subjob. It's not.

Optimal set would be something like...

Perfect Rindomaru | Rose Strap | --- | Black Tathlum
Ace's Helm | Ancient Torque | Brutal Earring | Wyvern Earring
Usukane Haramaki | Dusk Gloves +1 | Rajas Ring | Toreador's Ring
Cuchulain's Mantle | Velocious Belt | Byakko's Haidate | Usukane Sune-Ate

More Haste, ACC and ATT.

This is, of course, barring Amanomurakumo, Kurodachi and Futsuno Mitama.
 Ragnarok.Blindphleb
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-04-05 18:30:44  
Has there been any confirmed testing done with the Kurodachi? I'd love to have solid testing done on that to see how viable a 5hit is, or how good a 6hit it provides.

I'm not the biggest fan of full timing carbonara unless you have the acc to back it up.
 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-04-05 18:32:15  
AOT rate seems to be ~40%.

It kicks the ***out of all existing options. Besides Amano, I think.
 Ragnarok.Blindphleb
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-04-05 18:34:13  
So... any reason for me to pick up a hagun? Do we think we will be able to augment it with the ToM quests?
 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-04-05 18:38:26  
Eventually we will, I beleive. I doubt they're going to give it OAT, though. But who knows. This IS SE.
 Ragnarok.Blindphleb
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-04-05 18:43:14  
Have these tests just been on Colibri? I wonder how the lower dmg and no fTP bonus does on higher lvl mobs.
 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-04-05 18:47:29  
There's always fTP on the main hit. Also, AOT doesn't affect WS's, besides drastically increasing WS Frequency,
 Ragnarok.Blindphleb
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-04-05 18:51:59  
Yeah I was meaning it doesn't get the TP bonus of Hagun, and has lower base dmg. So if these tests are done on Colibri could it be a different story on an HNM? Or is the WS frequency of an OAT GKT just too big of a gap for Hagun's big WS numbers to make up?
 Caitsith.Linear
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By Caitsith.Linear 2010-04-05 18:58:22  
The frequency is just too large to overcome.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-04-05 19:00:46  
Ragnarok.Blindphleb said:
Have these tests just been on Colibri? I wonder how the lower dmg and no fTP bonus does on higher lvl mobs.
I did math on it a while back assuming 50% proc rate and Kuro won easily. 40% proc rate reduces that margin, but not enough that Hagun will win if engaged fulltime. Hagun -> Kurodachi is comparable to Onimaru -> Hagun in terms of the increase to your DPS. Colibri or HNM doesn't matter, neither weapon has a stat on it that affects pDIF.

Also lolparse as "testing" data for determining what weapon beats what. Too many variables you can't control for.
 Fenrir.Mtmoogle
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By Fenrir.Mtmoogle 2010-04-05 19:58:11  
Cool story Night
[+]
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-04-05 20:18:10  
It totally was dude... It was like, fantastic :O

You disappeared on me last night >.>
 Ragnarok.Blindphleb
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-04-05 21:00:20  
So then this should be the 6hit build with the kurodachi?
6hit kurodachi


It seems the OAT rate is ~40% with the OAT weapons. Why is everyone so crazy about that? Sobo has about 50% double and 20% triple.

Also, I've read that while 5hit kurodachi is possible it sacrifices too much to achieve it.
5hit carbonara


5hit hachi hands
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-04-05 21:04:39  
Sacrificing Haste basically makes it not worthwhile. If you're not making a 5-hit build it's really not worth the effort if you have to use Hachiman Kote, and even then it's not a huge increase since there's a lot of TP overflow occuring. The 6-hit Kuro is dead on, Hauby + Pole if you don't have Usukane Haramaki.

EDIT: Soboro is good when used appropriately... but the 40D kinda hurts as a main weapon. Also, TP overflow again.
 Ragnarok.Blindphleb
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2010-04-06 16:22:41  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Sacrificing Haste basically makes it not worthwhile. If you're not making a 5-hit build it's really not worth the effort if you have to use Hachiman Kote, and even then it's not a huge increase since there's a lot of TP overflow occuring. The 6-hit Kuro is dead on, Hauby Pole if you don't have Usukane Haramaki.

EDIT: Soboro is good when used appropriately... but the 40D kinda hurts as a main weapon. Also, TP overflow again.
Why does 40 dmg hurt Soboro, but 68 dmg doesn't hurt Kurodachi. Neither Gkt has anything that effects pdif right? You mentioned that on HNM or Colibri the outcome would be the same between Hagun and Kurodachi right?

Obviously a 28dmg difference is greater than a 7dmg difference. My question is at what point does base dmg become a concern.

I suppose we're getting away from the original topic, but I've been looking at BG and trying to weigh buying a hagun or not. It seems even those on BG aren't sure what the gtk tiers will be. I remember when the Rindomaru craze happened and everyone was excited about 5hit rindo, then it all calmed down and people went back to hagun.
 Bismarck.Maxse
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By Bismarck.Maxse 2010-04-06 21:37:19  
Main reason people calmed down and almost no one uses Rindo is because of how difficult it is to get one worth using, let alone one that will beat a hagun.

Personally I dont like soboro at all yeah the tp gain is great and alot of ws spams, but you feed the mob way too much tp for using it to be worth it on just about anything you fight, imo.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-04-06 21:43:13  
Soboro has a high rate of TP overflow, which has a pretty hefty impact on WS frequency and thus your WS:TP split as well. What I stated previously wasn't fully accurate, if the split is the same then pDIF doesn't really matter. As it is Kuro's lower split will reduce its advantage slightly, but not to the point where it would lose outside of situations where the entirety of your DPS is from WS. The base damage just kind of hurts in general, lol. You're doing like half the damage per WS of Hagun at that point, but you're not quite WSing twice as much to compensate.
 Midgardsormr.Frobeus
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By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2010-04-06 21:47:32  
Why not make a 5 hit Kurodachi that sacrifices only 1% haste and doesn't require carbonara?
 Sylph.Vincentius
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By Sylph.Vincentius 2010-04-06 21:52:11  
Ragnarok.Blindphleb said:
I suppose we're getting away from the original topic, but I've been looking at BG and trying to weigh buying a hagun or not. It seems even those on BG aren't sure what the gtk tiers will be. I remember when the Rindomaru craze happened and everyone was excited about 5hit rindo, then it all calmed down and people went back to hagun.

You can still buy a Hagun, because unless you have the manpower, you're not getting a Kuro most likely. And even then, the difference isn't as huge as some are letting on. I believe math on BG said it's about a 4% increase. While that's nice and all, I'm not getting one just due to lack of people.
 Fairy.Basilo
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By Fairy.Basilo 2010-04-06 22:59:05  
Caitsith.Linear said:
Well, that sets based on the assumtion that /WAR is the optimal subjob. It's not. Optimal set would be something like... Perfect Rindomaru | Rose Strap | --- | Black Tathlum Ace's Helm | Ancient Torque | Brutal Earring | Wyvern Earring Usukane Haramaki | Dusk Gloves 1 | Rajas Ring | Toreador's Ring Cuchulain's Mantle | Velocious Belt | Byakko's Haidate | Usukane Sune-Ate More Haste, ACC and ATT. This is, of course, barring Amanomurakumo, Kurodachi and Futsuno Mitama.


Dont think thats right, wouldnt use dgloves+1 and speed belt with wyvern earring anymore I believe item comes pretty pointless you aquire hq hands and belt according to vegetto. Head 5%, hands 4%, waist 6%, legs 5% feet 2/3% would only be getting 2 or 3% haste from sj drg wouldnt be worth it im told. Soooo yeah neither is drg optimal sj either necessarily.
Midgardsormr.Frobeus said:
Invalid Item Set Don't forget this setup also. In pure DD output I believe it was found to be the best, but I may be wrong here.

I have that build pretty much except 4%haste waist not 6%, use usu feet only atm 2% cos im lazy i guess, hauby+1 not usu body and finally I mostly tp in cerb+1 not cuch mantle.

I assume its still a 6 hit what you posted, same as mine is 6hit also cant see how you can call it pure win dd out put build though. If its not 6 hit with a sword strap its not gonna be best right? Im too tired for adding stp in my head i assume u swapped around my hauby+1 and usu feet for 1% more haste yet retain 6hit? Wouldnt it be better to sword strap too and change to usu feet? idk
 Fairy.Basilo
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By Fairy.Basilo 2010-04-06 23:01:47  
Item set quote failed lol.