Aegis Vs. Ochain

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フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Paladin » Aegis vs. Ochain
Aegis vs. Ochain
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 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-10-03 15:27:30  
I don't understand what makes people think they sound any more credible than another type of 'fanboy' when they adamantly declare that the alternative is completely useless.

I find more overall use in Ochain. I know Aegis is extremely powerful at what it does, I just don't find an additional amount of non-threatening magic damage to be worth sacrificing a nearly capped block rate on all targets independent of Reprisal/JA usage.

'lol aegis sucks' sounds just as stupid as 'lol ochain sucks'. You're allowed to disagree without sounding like an idiot.
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By Starkzz 2011-10-03 15:28:05  
Bahamut.Serj said: »
Starkzz said: »
BorealisV2 said: »
Lakshmi.Konvict said: »
BorealisV2 said: »
People be maaaaaaaaaad. Macro Aegis in for MDT. That is all.
What about Magical tp moves that are use instantaneously?
You mean VW? Sure use it for that one event if it makes you feel better about your sub par 170~ mil shield.
VW is the thing now bro, that matters that is
Ochain still has more use than Aegis in voidwatch.

lol
 Lakshmi.Rearden
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By Lakshmi.Rearden 2011-10-03 15:28:50  
And @75 a Koenig PLD could outtank most Aegis PLD so that's a poor example.

If I had both I would fulltime Ochain and swap in Aegis when necessary if necessary. If the mob called for fulltiming Aegis then I would do that.
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 Cerberus.Wojo
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By Cerberus.Wojo 2011-10-03 15:29:29  
If you don't need the MDB, then you need a Ninja :)
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By BorealisV2 2011-10-03 15:29:52  
Lakshmi.Rearden said: »
And @75 a Koenig PLD could outtank most Aegis PLD so that's a poor example.

If I had both I would fulltime Ochain and swap in Aegis when necessary if necessary. If the mob called for fulltiming Aegis then I would do that.

This.
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By Starkzz 2011-10-03 15:30:33  
Lakshmi.Rearden said: »
And @75 a Koenig PLD could outtank most Aegis PLD so that's a poor example. If I had both I would fulltime Ochain and swap in Aegis when necessary if necessary. If the mob called for fulltiming Aegis then I would do that.

blame the player, not the shield
 Fenrir.Yinsha
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By Fenrir.Yinsha 2011-10-03 15:32:02  
So, I guess you guys would use Ochain on Wyrms.
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-10-03 15:32:03  
Cerberus.Wojo said: »
If you don't need the MDB, then you need a Ninja :)

Doesn't work that way anymore.
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By Starkzz 2011-10-03 15:33:55  
Fenrir.Yinsha said: »
So, I guess you guys would use Ochain on Wyrms.

clearly, coz like, aegis cant shield block. ;;
 Phoenix.Fredjan
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By Phoenix.Fredjan 2011-10-03 15:34:56  
Shouldn't Ochain pretty much destroy Aegis for Voidwrought?
Granted, it's not like people actually spam him.
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By BorealisV2 2011-10-03 15:35:11  
Starkzz said: »
Fenrir.Yinsha said: »
So, I guess you guys would use Ochain on Wyrms.

clearly, coz like, aegis cant shield block. ;;

Correction: can't shield block as well as Ochain.

You're welcome.
 Lakshmi.Rearden
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By Lakshmi.Rearden 2011-10-03 15:36:23  
Phoenix.Fredjan said: »
Shouldn't Ochain pretty much destroy Aegis for Voidwrought?
Granted, it's not like people actually spam him.

Yes, unless you get weakness in which case you're worried about spells and TP moves killing you.

Can be tanked on MNK now though so not that big a deal anyway.
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-10-03 15:36:35  
Except that wyrms still hit hard, and their magic can still be reduced to laughable levels without dumping TP to swap shields.
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By Starkzz 2011-10-03 15:36:44  
Phoenix.Fredjan said: »
Shouldn't Ochain pretty much destroy Aegis for Voidwrought? Granted, it's not like people actually spam him.

not really, lol. Calaeno woulda been a better example
 Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2011-10-03 15:37:33  
Starkzz said: »
Bahamut.Serj said: »
Starkzz said: »
BorealisV2 said: »
Lakshmi.Konvict said: »
BorealisV2 said: »
People be maaaaaaaaaad. Macro Aegis in for MDT. That is all.
What about Magical tp moves that are use instantaneously?
You mean VW? Sure use it for that one event if it makes you feel better about your sub par 170~ mil shield.
VW is the thing now bro, that matters that is
Ochain still has more use than Aegis in voidwatch.

lol

More useful on 55% of total nms is still more useful overall. Not discrediting either.

Use both etc.
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By Starkzz 2011-10-03 15:40:12  
Only Voidwatch mob that I've fought that ochain really excels on over Aegis is Kaggen, and I've done 'em all cept t3 zilarts, which will be done wednesday
 Phoenix.Fredjan
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By Phoenix.Fredjan 2011-10-03 15:40:48  
Lakshmi.Rearden said: »
Phoenix.Fredjan said: »
Shouldn't Ochain pretty much destroy Aegis for Voidwrought?
Granted, it's not like people actually spam him.

Yes, unless you get weakness in which case you're worried about spells and TP moves killing you.

Can be tanked on MNK now though so not that big a deal anyway.

Fair enough.
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By Haist 2011-10-03 15:40:49  
Aegis is simply a macro piece if you have both shields, and neither 1 is better than the other given the situational use for both. Get either and youll be happy
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 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-10-03 15:44:53  
Starkzz said: »
Only Voidwatch mob that I've fought that ochain really excels on over Aegis is Kaggen, and I've done 'em all cept t3 zilarts, which will be done wednesday

I've hardly touched low-mid level Jeuno/Zilart, and only done T3 with big clusterfuck pickup groups, but runs with LS members disagree. Someone mentioned Voidwrought. Well, he never gets off a dangerous TP move when we go, so I'd completely disagree.
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By Starkzz 2011-10-03 15:51:55  
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Starkzz said: »
Only Voidwatch mob that I've fought that ochain really excels on over Aegis is Kaggen, and I've done 'em all cept t3 zilarts, which will be done wednesday
I've hardly touched low-mid level Jeuno/Zilart, and only done T3 with big clusterfuck pickup groups, but runs with LS members disagree. Someone mentioned Voidwrought. Well, he never gets off a dangerous TP move when we go, so I'd completely disagree.

good stunners? stun bots? what ever the case, don't assume every group is like that. Fair enough though, the gap between the shields on this is small, surely, that bein' said I personally believe Aegis to be the safer shield on this mob.

If non botters can stun Eradicator than goodjob, this ability is pretty fast to be stunned consistantly w/o the use of bots
 Fenrir.Yinsha
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By Fenrir.Yinsha 2011-10-03 15:56:04  
Anyone tank the Zilart T1 Wyrm?
Experiences?
Could give us a clue to how these new Wyrms will be?
We probably won't have temps either.
Edit: Unless it's more VW....
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-10-03 15:59:22  
Same ***, different name. Add some pets that influence its flight cycle.

New wyrms will be a joke if they follow the same pattern, VW or not.
 Bahamut.Zellc
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By Bahamut.Zellc 2011-10-03 16:04:30  
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Lakshmi.Konvict said: »
BorealisV2 said: »
People be maaaaaaaaaad.

Macro Aegis in for MDT. That is all.
What about Magical tp moves that are use instantaneously?

Like what?

i was wondering the same thing about tp moves like incinerator. specifically when its used by voidwrought.

also someone told me that magical tp moves, like the one previously mentioned, are not affected by mdb. just wanted to verify or have it denied.
 
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 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-10-03 16:08:59  
Bahamut.Zellc said: »
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Lakshmi.Konvict said: »
BorealisV2 said: »
People be maaaaaaaaaad.

Macro Aegis in for MDT. That is all.
What about Magical tp moves that are use instantaneously?

Like what?

i was wondering the same thing about tp moves like incinerator. specifically when its used by voidwrought.

also someone told me that magical tp moves, like the one previously mentioned, are not affected by mdb. just wanted to verify or have it denied.

False.
 Fenrir.Yinsha
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By Fenrir.Yinsha 2011-10-03 16:12:13  
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Same ***, different name. Add some pets that influence its flight cycle.

New wyrms will be a joke if they follow the same pattern, VW or not.
If SE wants relics to be the best, what's stopping them from adding ridiculous amounts of INT/MAB to these Wyrms?
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By Starkzz 2011-10-03 16:12:17  
Thing about the Tiamat is not it's strength, but it's endurance.
Ya either attempt zerg by grouding her (by killin' both her pets)
or you leave one of the two pets alive and she remains in flight the entire fight. Either method isn't too easy, fanatics drink does not block her absolute terror, which she spams AND is AoE. While grounded
her wing is 30', in flight it's less, not sure exactly. Or ya can keep her flighted and /ra her down by whatever means, all the while being careful not to pull hate though, which is difficult when your pressured with the alotted time limit. Also, she has big MDB/MDT-.

We won (pretty much almost timed out though.) by carefully blasting her in the sky, had a relic RNG for this to note aswell, very effective, at 'bout 40% we dropped her and fanaburned.
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By Starkzz 2011-10-03 16:20:49  
Bismarck.Josiahkf said: »
Caturae have a few instant dmg moves like shadow wreck that do 2k darkness dmg. What does the new Caturae have? Not going to swap into Aegis fast enough on that stuff. But someone told you magical TP moves aren't affected by MDB? that sounds crazy

Regarding Pil (the caturae) is -probably- the toughest VW mob thus far, after Bishop's Gambit regains 2k HP and sometimes, not guranteed but very frequently gains an invincilability shield nagating all damage across the board, only way to remove it is to proc 'em. To note about the shield however, we have noticed a single damage type at random dealing damage, (blunt, slash, magic, etc) and after a certain amount of damage is dealt w/ the found weakness, the shield breaks. Pil quite litrally spams thos shield, and magic even while shield isn't active does little damage, timing out on this is by no means hard. Other than that, not too rough, uses Flank opening, fairly reasonable AoE phys dmg and DEF down, should be erased asap, Under 50% casts Kaustra, not too damaging, but the DoT isn't something that should be kept active
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 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-10-03 16:24:31  
Fenrir.Yinsha said: »
Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Same ***, different name. Add some pets that influence its flight cycle.

New wyrms will be a joke if they follow the same pattern, VW or not.
If SE wants relics to be the best, what's stopping them from adding ridiculous amounts of INT/MAB to these Wyrms?

Unless they completely dumb down their physical capabilities, they'd have to keep the wyrms perpetually in flight. An increase in magical strength wouldn't be enough.

You have to keep in mind that while Aegis is capable of bringing magic damage down to stupid levels, any other shield can still bring powerful magic attacks down to sub-500, which isn't the least bit dangerous.
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