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 Phoenix.Fredjan
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By Phoenix.Fredjan 2011-10-09 13:18:56
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Bahamut.Krizz said: »
Phoenix.Fredjan said: »
Ragnarok.Nekonarf said: »
/SCH is still a terrible subjob in terms of what /RDM has to offer for both WHM and BLM.
I always thought /SCH was ultimate for WHM.
It used to be. Apparently not now, and I can understand it with the level increase.
Voidwatch sure makes people change their views on jobs lol.
Back in abyssea, WHM/SCH was the way to go, NIN was a badass dd, BLM serious nuking was laughable, and COR / RNG weren't even considered.
Now it's different: WHM/RDM, BLM is necessary for Voidwatch (deals most damage), NIN is crap as a DD, RNG / COR are amazing (RNG can stay out of AoE range, COR is useful for Pil)
 Bahamut.Krizz
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By Bahamut.Krizz 2011-10-09 13:25:14
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I was in the process of leveling SCH at one point for a WHM sub. Then someone refused to invite me to a meripo because I didn't have it. I stopped leveling SCH, and I refuse to touch it again.
 Phoenix.Nightson
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By Phoenix.Nightson 2011-10-09 13:43:16
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I fail to see how this makes scholar useless? /sch is watered down compared to what you get main and i would be pissed over scholars getting ja and ga spells. blm/sch helix suck as you guys say then i dont see a problem. Klimaform without weather and af sucks as a sub compared to what you get main why get mad.

If you are a decent scholar i would think you would be wanted to come sch regardless of your proc abilities. Now if they give us blms thunderstorm which i hope they do since they lowered sekka to sub level for dds then i can understand complaining id even be surprised over this. But /sch IMO isn't even comparable to what you get main and just procing for sub is not in any way diluting scholars usefulness or niche. You can still out nuke, embrava. etc list goes on to what scholar main wrecks compared to sub...
 Lakshmi.Emanuelle
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By Lakshmi.Emanuelle 2011-10-09 13:43:43
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i use whm so much in my mule with rdm and sch sub, i love sch sub because the conserve mp, and extra stratagems +sublimation /sch sub it's way more mp efficient for me, because with rdm sub it goes 100% flat mp usage with no cutdowns, convert doesn't compensate it in the long run,
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 Sylph.Gobbo
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By Sylph.Gobbo 2011-10-09 13:44:17
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What exactly does /RDM offer that /SCH doesn't that makes it superior in voidwatch? If it's MP Endurance then it's a silly reason seeing how MP is not an issue at all just as it was inside of Abyssea.
 Bismarck.Gael
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By Bismarck.Gael 2011-10-09 13:45:22
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ya /sch is still the best sub (at least for whm), dont give up Krizz
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 Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2011-10-09 13:59:08
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Lakshmi.Emanuelle said: »
i remember back on cap 85 when i used to be in a abyssea ls there was 1 week of dragua spam event,

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 Lakshmi.Emanuelle
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By Lakshmi.Emanuelle 2011-10-09 14:00:15
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ups double post
 Phoenix.Fredjan
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By Phoenix.Fredjan 2011-10-09 14:14:06
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Bahamut.Serj said: »
that's what I thought. lol
 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-10-09 14:26:44
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Phoenix.Fredjan said: »
Bahamut.Krizz said: »
Phoenix.Fredjan said: »
Ragnarok.Nekonarf said: »
/SCH is still a terrible subjob in terms of what /RDM has to offer for both WHM and BLM.
I always thought /SCH was ultimate for WHM.
It used to be. Apparently not now, and I can understand it with the level increase.
Voidwatch sure makes people change their views on jobs lol.
Back in abyssea, WHM/SCH was the way to go, NIN was a badass dd, BLM serious nuking was laughable, and COR / RNG weren't even considered.
Now it's different: WHM/RDM, BLM is necessary for Voidwatch (deals most damage), NIN is crap as a DD, RNG / COR are amazing (RNG can stay out of AoE range, COR is useful for Pil)

Nobody changed their view on anything. Different situations call for very different tactics, and very different tactics call for a change in job dichotomy.

Nobody who wants BLM, RNG, and COR to DD in VW suddenly wants them to replace their WAR, MNK, and NIN in Abyssea.
 Carbuncle.Asymptotic
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By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-10-09 14:31:24
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I tend to see two types of WHMs:

1.) Mules controlled by a bot WHM/RDM
2.) Player-controlled WHM/SCH
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 Leviathan.Dodu
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By Leviathan.Dodu 2011-10-09 14:33:03
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Speaking as someone in a linkshell that is literally over half mules(~9 players and ~13 mules), I never see muleWHM /RDM, its always /BLM for stun and D2.

As one of the last mainWHM that I'm aware of, I'm always /SCH. I can't stun for ***in general, much less when I'm trying to keep people alive.
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 Carbuncle.Asymptotic
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By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-10-09 14:36:20
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Oh, I forgot about the stunbot WHMs.
 Phoenix.Fredjan
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By Phoenix.Fredjan 2011-10-09 14:54:02
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Leviathan.Dodu said: »
Nobody changed their view on anything. Different situations call for very different tactics, and very different tactics call for a change in job dichotomy.

Nobody who wants BLM, RNG, and COR to DD in VW suddenly wants them to replace their WAR, MNK, and NIN in Abyssea.
That's more like it.
 Bahamut.Cuelebra
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By Bahamut.Cuelebra 2011-10-09 15:27:18
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Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »
I tend to see two types of WHMs:

1.) Mules controlled by a bot WHM/RDM
2.) Player-controlled WHM/SCH

I <3 IT!!! I think there's moer reason to sub /sch with the boost spells. Common higher enhancing for Boost-STR...slightly higher barspells yes!
 Fenrir.Niniann
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By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-10-09 16:01:45
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Yeah there's so many reasons to /SCH it's not even funny... :x If you're having constant MP issues in Voidwatch I feel bad for you son.

Edit: Isn't /SCH better for MP anyway if you're constantly tossing out cures? Not that it should matter either way.
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 Bahamut.Cuelebra
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By Bahamut.Cuelebra 2011-10-09 16:10:47
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Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Yeah there's so many reasons to /SCH it's not even funny... :x If you're having constant MP issues in Voidwatch I feel bad for you son.

Edit: Isn't /SCH better for MP anyway if you're constantly tossing out cures? Not that it should matter either way.

Ive gone on some NA voidwatch shouts on my server. one of the problems i see is whms think they need to be alternating cure6> cure5 like in abyssea. JP voidwatchs very interesting....
 Bahamut.Mizuharu
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By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2011-10-09 16:19:02
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Just thought of a reason to take SCH to Voidwatch even with helix spells being /SCH accessible.

Immanence can be used to skillchain from max casting distance. Then BLMs are able to MB off that. It's rather handy when you proc red stagger on a target to build up those %s. Of course, a SCH can MB also with Alacrity for T4/T5. :p
 Bahamut.Weasel
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By Bahamut.Weasel 2011-10-09 16:23:27
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Bahamut.Mizuharu said: »
Just thought of a reason to take SCH to Voidwatch even with helix spells being /SCH accessible.

Immanence can be used to skillchain from max casting distance. Then BLMs are able to MB off that. It's rather handy when you proc red stagger on a target to build up those %s. Of course, a SCH can MB also with Alacrity for T4/T5. :p

How often does this actually happen in a group?

There aren't many people still playing who are proficient at magic bursting, even among those doing Voidwatch.
 Bahamut.Mizuharu
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By Bahamut.Mizuharu 2011-10-09 16:26:52
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Bahamut.Weasel said: »
Bahamut.Mizuharu said: »
Just thought of a reason to take SCH to Voidwatch even with helix spells being /SCH accessible.

Immanence can be used to skillchain from max casting distance. Then BLMs are able to MB off that. It's rather handy when you proc red stagger on a target to build up those %s. Of course, a SCH can MB also with Alacrity for T4/T5. :p

How often does this actually happen in a group?

There aren't many people still playing who are proficient at magic bursting, even among those doing Voidwatch.

You play with idiots then. >_> Sorry.

It's not that hard. BLMs just have to start casting when the SCH starts casting their second spell for the skillchain (assuming they're doing T1 nuke > T1 nuke)
 Bahamut.Cuelebra
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By Bahamut.Cuelebra 2011-10-09 16:30:21
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Bahamut.Cuelebra said: »
Fenrir.Niniann said: »
Yeah there's so many reasons to /SCH it's not even funny... :x If you're having constant MP issues in Voidwatch I feel bad for you son.

Edit: Isn't /SCH better for MP anyway if you're constantly tossing out cures? Not that it should matter either way.

Ive gone on some NA voidwatch shouts on my server. one of the problems i see is whms think they need to be alternating cure6> cure5 like in abyssea. JP voidwatchs very interesting....

I think theres a lot of reasons to take a sch and not to take a sch. It really depends on ur LS. As Ninian as pointed out- for processing purposes SCH will no longer be needed because of the Helix level adjustment. (2 JA process isnt worth it).

If ur bringing a sch its because they can support heal and process and yadada yadada It's really gonna be preference. But i think we've run this topic into the ground at this point
 Carbuncle.Asymptotic
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By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-10-09 16:40:05
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You bring a SCH for the short sexy skirt and bangin'-*** monocle. Isn't that good enough?

God, it's like you people don't understand math.
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 Lakshmi.Emanuelle
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By Lakshmi.Emanuelle 2011-10-09 16:48:19
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mmm mmmmm now voidwatch is everything on the game yay
 Bahamut.Cuelebra
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By Bahamut.Cuelebra 2011-10-09 16:53:34
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Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »
You bring a SCH for the short sexy skirt and bangin'-*** monocle. Isn't that good enough?

God, it's like you people don't understand math.


Are u trying to say its because im mithra i come sch vs the hume male in my ls?
 Carbuncle.Asymptotic
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By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-10-09 17:46:51
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Bahamut.Cuelebra said: »
Carbuncle.Asymptotic said: »
You bring a SCH for the short sexy skirt and bangin'-*** monocle. Isn't that good enough?

God, it's like you people don't understand math.


Are u trying to say its because im mithra i come sch vs the hume male in my ls?

That is exactly what I'm trying to say.

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 Sylph.Katalsar
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By Sylph.Katalsar 2011-10-10 04:14:33
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Lol tell me what will tier 2 helix do for us? lol you know SE would probably just add it to tabula rasa anyway.

The funny thing is what spells will no other job have of SCHs besides kaustra/embrave/aurstorm/thunstorm/voidstorm?




Who the hell is thinking for SE?



This?
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2011-10-10 23:13:10
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Sylph.Katalsar said: »
Lol tell me what will tier 2 helix do for us? lol you know SE would probably just add it to tabula rasa anyway.

The funny thing is what spells will no other job have of SCHs besides kaustra/embrave/aurstorm/thunstorm/voidstorm?


Animus Augeo/Minuo and the 1/tick regain spell Adloquium, just to name 3
 Gilgamesh.Sasaraixx
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By Gilgamesh.Sasaraixx 2011-10-11 04:38:19
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Odin.Eikechi said: »
Sylph.Katalsar said: »
Lol tell me what will tier 2 helix do for us? lol you know SE would probably just add it to tabula rasa anyway.

The funny thing is what spells will no other job have of SCHs besides kaustra/embrave/aurstorm/thunstorm/voidstorm?


Animus Augeo/Minuo and the 1/tick regain spell Adloquium, just to name 3

If only those weren't practically useless.
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